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Jesus as a false prophet
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Bgipson

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August 11, 2016 - 2:48 pm

Judith said

I think the lost sheep and parable son teaches that God loves us all regardless of whether we are obedient or not.   

Sure, but the claim was that 

” it seems to me that God is dealing on a very individual basis with people and not on a national level and I really do have doubts that he is overly concerned with the Christian movement or even the growth of Christianity he just loves each and every person on the planet.”

 

Did God upgrade his computers and can now deal with everyone on an individual basis, whereas before he was limited to either national or regional settings?

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Judith

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August 11, 2016 - 5:33 pm

Jesus left His example of how we are to be and now we can see His spirit in others and – on rare occasions – even ourselves as we do what we normally would not do. It’s as though we have evolved into being capable of a relationship with God, maybe because of Jesus.

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Tempo1936

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August 11, 2016 - 10:05 pm

The language Jesus used in mark 13 (coming in the clouds) was similar to The poetic language used in the old testament to foretell coming judgment.

for example:

Isaiah 19:1 is an example. The burden of Egypt.
Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt:
and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence,and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

 

Luke 21 :10 actually says the city will be surrounded by armies.

MAtthew 24, mark 13, and Luke 21 describe the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

Revelation may also be interpreted to be about ad70

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Bgipson

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August 12, 2016 - 12:14 pm

Judith said
Jesus left His example of how we are to be and now we can see His spirit in others and – on rare occasions – even ourselves as we do what we normally would not do. It’s as though we have evolved into being capable of a relationship with God, maybe because of Jesus.  

C’mon Judith!  Non of that deals with the idea that God, if there is one, would stop caring about what he reportedly told his disciples before Ascending to heaven ( The Great Commission)  and that we needed to evolve (thanks to Charlie Darwin?) ” into being capable of a relationship with God,”  Are we suggesting Moses, et al were not evolved enough to have such a relationship?

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Judith

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August 12, 2016 - 12:40 pm

Moses et al DID have such a relationship but then some of us feel we do, too. This is in response to your asking if God had upgraded his computers to deal with us on an individual basis. Some of us here are believers, spiker.

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Bgipson

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August 12, 2016 - 4:31 pm

Judith said
Moses et al DID have such a relationship but then some of us feel we do, too. This is in response to your asking if God had upgraded his computers to deal with us on an individual basis. Some of us here are believers, spiker.  

Oh c’mon now!

I don’t have a problem with believers so long as they aren’t making stuff up or bending the facts. If Moses et al had such a relationship then how can you say ppl need to evolve for a such a thing. Now here’s a fun one. Even Bart doubts Moses existed.

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Judith

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August 12, 2016 - 4:46 pm

Well then, IF Moses et al existed. And it’s not making things up to believe that people can change (or “evolve”) into believing the precepts we think Jesus taught are what is best for the whole world such as treating others as brothers and, if privileged with good fortune, committing to helping others.

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Bgipson

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August 13, 2016 - 7:11 pm

Judith said
Well then, IF Moses et al existed. And it’s not making things up to believe that people can change (or “evolve”) into believing the precepts we think Jesus taught are what is best for the whole world such as treating others as brothers and, if privileged with good fortune, committing to helping others.  

I happen to think Moses existed. It’s sort of making stuff up when ppl ignore traditional christian teaching because it doesn’t fit with what they want it to be.  

I don’t think anyone would doubt the love your neighbor aspect of his teachings, but then that’s not really what was being argued.

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Bgipson

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August 15, 2016 - 12:55 pm

Judith:

 

 I should add that my remarks about bending facts or making stuff up was not about you or this particular thread. 

Often we see arguments made, which seem persuasive to the person in question, only to the extent that it appears to support something they want to believe.  Take a look at the following, rather strained argument in reference to whether Peter was the author 

 

I agree that Peter might have been illiterate, but I disagree that he could not have been the author of 1 Peter. Even if Peter was illiterate, he could still have been the author of the letter, even though he himself did not put the pen to papyrus to physically create the letter. I believe, as do a host of others, that Peter basically could have told a Greek-speaking “secretary” what to write. Ehrman dismisses this possibility, stating his objections this way:

“Nor could he have dictated the letter in Aramaic and asked the secretary to translate it into Greek, because the letter contains sophisticated forms of argumentation and presentation that work only in Greek and presupposes knowledge of the Greek Old Testament, not the Hebrew version, which Peter himself would have been familiar with.”

Peter’s illiteracy does not force us to presuppose that Peter did not have a knowledge of the Greek Old Testament. Ehrman’s claim supposes that an illiterate, Aramaic-speaking Peter could not have gained knowledge of the Greek Old Testament without being able to read Greek. But, of course, Peter could have gained such knowledge easily. Peter could have asked an Aramaic-speaking, highly literate “secretary” who was knowledgeable in the Greek Old Testament, and who also was familiar with “sophisticated forms of Greek argumentation and presentation,” to read to him portions of the Greek Old Testament that the secretary knew would be theologically relevant to Peter, translating as he read, from the Greek to Aramaic, so Peter could understand.

After absorbing enough of the needed content from the Greek Old Testament, Peter would then have been able to convey to the secretary, in Aramaic, the gist of what he wished to say to his Greek-reading audience, idea by idea, sentence by sentence, speaking to the secretary as he wrote. The actual Greek words used, the grammar, sentence structure, would have been choices made by the secretary, and the secretary would make sure the arguments would work in Greek, but all of the ideas would have been Peter’s, and he would have signed off on the final product, sentence by sentence.   Is this what Prof. Ehrman thinks should be called a “forgery”?

 

Notice that COULD HAVE is the logic of the entire argument. As long as someone can construct a scenario where Peter, with

enough gyrations to please Rube Goldberg,  COULD HAVE been the author, you can’t say he wasn’t. ** you do not have permission to see this link **

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