BJH1960 said
Robert said:
I continue to gain respect for AI …Indeed. It can be very effective.
I put the latest exchange (Post 44 on) I had with Steefen and asked, “Is Steefen engaging in a dialogue with BJH1960? Is it a conversation and not a monologue? Is he critically reflecting on his own ideas?”
The answer to all three questions was no.
Here are a few snippets:
“Dialogue requires responding directly to the questions posed and allowing one’s position to be examined. Steefen consistently refuses to answer the explicit yes/no questions and instead redirects the discussion to points he prefers to make. That pattern shows avoidance rather than engagement.”
“Steefen’s contributions function as monologic rather than conversational. He repeats his own assertions, declares the discussion over (‘I have the answer that satisfies me’), and does not adapt or respond to the actual concerns raised by others. A conversation involves reciprocal exchange; this does not.”“There is no evidence of self-critique, reconsideration, or testing of his claims against objections. Instead, disagreement is treated as final (‘that’s why our discussion ends’), and responsibility for understanding is shifted entirely onto the other participant.”
“His posts operate as assertions and conversation-enders, not as contributions to a shared inquiry that welcomes challenge or reflection.”
An LLM is no stronger than the combination of model and information base, but when asking it to generate results that lie smack in the middle of its knowledge base, it can be very effective, as demonstrated above.
Professional grade LLMs that return the likelihood of fit statistics are, of course, required to be able to know when the prompt is asking for something not well supported by the knowledge base.
In addition to the above, it is also very effective at helping to craft quite polite and very well phrased requests from students to faculty to hopefully consider changing a grade of F despite not submitting work constituting 50% of the final grade.
Steefen wrote:
bjh
Do you think we can have both a Jewish Jesus and a non-Jewish Jesus in the same work?Steefen
Yes
Thanks, Steefen.
In the United States, there was a time when people did not consider Catholics to be Christians.
Same prejudice:
Some uppity Judeans did not consider Galileans to be Jews.
Some Zionists do not consider Gazans to be human.
Biden did not consider Blacks who wouldn’t vote for him to be Black people.
Common sense. You should not need this explained to you.
All of your examples are of people possessing an identity that others doubt.
Is it your belief that Jesus was Jewish but not considered to be Jewish or that ** you do not have permission to see this link **
BJH1960 said
Common sense. You should not need this explained to you.
By the way, I forget to mention that expressing the above sentiment is probably not the best way to engage another interlocutor in a discussion.
Especially since at the slightest hint of perceived condescension towards Steefen on our parts, intended or projected, Steefen immediately gasps, clutches his pearls and has an attack of the vapors.
Well, if it were up to me the simplest approach would be most useful here. I think I would start with the question of, if Jesus was not Jewish, why, for cryin’ out loud, wouldn’t the gospels be more explicit about stating that observation?
Honestly, this here thread going around and around just isn’t going anywhere but around and around. Maybe we should just conclude that we don’t know with absolute certainty, and boy, there is always that slightestest chance Jesus wasn’t Jewish. Then, go with the reasonable answer, that has always been the consensus, and, certainly, the beginning of the Christian faith. Wouldn’t that be the scientific way to go about it?
If Jesus wasn’t Jewish wouldn’t that make him, and his witnesses, frauds? The Jesus movement certainly was real.
See
Spinoza’s Addition to the Historical Jesus Discussion / ** you do not have permission to see this link ** – In YOUR Law, not in OUR Law
Comment 42.
= = = = = = =
SECOND reason Jesus is not an Orthodox Jew: [criticizing God’s behavior in Exodus] Matthew 7:9-11 and Luke 11:11-13.
Jesus’ notion of the Heavenly Father is a criticism of God’s behavior in Exodus.
Google’s AI Overview:
a parent giving a child a stone or a snake when asked for bread or fish to illustrate God the Father’s willingness to give good gifts to those who ask him.
- Matthew 7:9-11 reads: “Which one of you, if your child asks for bread, would give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, would give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!”
- Luke 11:11-13 reads: “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
Jill:
If Jesus wasn’t Jewish wouldn’t that make him, and his witnesses, frauds?
Steefen:
No.
Steefen said
…
SECOND reason Jesus is not an Orthodox Jew: [criticizing God’s behavior in Exodus] Matthew 7:9-11 and Luke 11:11-13.
Jesus’ notion of the Heavenly Father is a criticism of God’s behavior in Exodus.
… [Obviously skipping “AI Overview”]
There isn’t any need to generate citations regarding whether Jesus is an orthodox Jew … if Jesus existed, he existed in the first century CE, and therefore wasn’t an orthodox Jew, which is a category from a later period.
As far as whether he was counted among the Pharisee faction that were the antecedents of orthodox Jews, this brings us to the murky questions of how strong canon attestations are as evidence, but at there very least, isn’t it the case that there is no clear evidence in favor?
Jill said:
Well, if it were up to me the simplest approach would be most useful here. I think I would start with the question of, if Jesus was not Jewish, why, for cryin’ out loud, wouldn’t the gospels be more explicit about stating that observation?
You’re absolutely right.
No one seriously doubts he was Jewish. As AI succinctly puts it:
The claim that Jesus was not Jewish contradicts all credible historical evidence. Jesus was born to Jewish parents, raised in Jewish tradition, taught in synagogues, and observed Jewish law.
This idea has occasionally appeared in fringe theories, sometimes motivated by antisemitism or attempts to distance Christianity from its Jewish roots. Historians, theologians, and scholars across disciplines universally agree Jesus was Jewish.
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