I’m still not convinced that “Jesus” was an individual, but possibly a composite of several apocalyptic Jewish prophets at the time. As mentioned in “Jesus Interrupted”, there is no reference to Jesus or any significant events in the Bible by Greek or Roman (both great documenters) documents. My question is in “Interrupted” Bart seems to accept anecdotal statements by Pliny the Younger and Tacitus in the second century CE as 3rd person confirmation of Jesus’ physical existence. Couldn’t their information have come from the same convoluted oral histories used by the gospel writers?
Steefen
First, judge the credibility of forum participants by how much name calling they do (nut job) as opposed to communicating reasons why Jesus must be one unique person.
Elimsport
I’m still not convinced that “Jesus” was an individual, but possibly a composite of several apocalyptic Jewish prophets at the time.
Steefen
The biblical Jesus is a composite character of historical fiction. The figures that go into the creation of the biblical Jesus are not only Jewish men.
Steefen and Elimsport,
Shouldn’t the question be, what evidence is there to support the idea that Jesus was a composite of different persons?
Lot’s of things are possible. I could imagine any number of scenarios that could be possible on almost any number of topics, but wouldn’t I need to give reasons to believe them if wanted to convince others? And shouldn’t the reasons for my ideas go beyond the mere assertion, “it’s possible”?
I ask this respectfully.
This reminds me – and I truly say this respectfully – of Russell’s Teapot.
@ said
I’m still not convinced that “Jesus” was an individual, but possibly a composite of several apocalyptic Jewish prophets at the time. As mentioned in “Jesus Interrupted”, there is no reference to Jesus or any significant events in the Bible by Greek or Roman (both great documenters) documents. My question is in “Interrupted” Bart seems to accept anecdotal statements by Pliny the Younger and Tacitus in the second century CE as 3rd person confirmation of Jesus’ physical existence. Couldn’t their information have come from the same convoluted oral histories used by the gospel writers?
Do you have any ideas as to who the different individuals making up the composite “Jesus” might be? (Some say Judas of Galilee was partly behind the Jesus character.)
Steefen said
Steefen
First, judge the credibility of forum participants by how much name calling they do (nut job) as opposed to communicating reasons why Jesus must be one unique person.
Elimsport
I’m still not convinced that “Jesus” was an individual, but possibly a composite of several apocalyptic Jewish prophets at the time.Steefen
The biblical Jesus is a composite character of historical fiction. The figures that go into the creation of the biblical Jesus are not only Jewish men.
Who do you think went into the creation of the Biblical Jesus?
Omar6741
Who do you think went into the creation of the Biblical Jesus?
Steefen
Jesus, son of Mary, is remembered through Holy Communion.
The story of Mary of Bethezuba [Wikipedia] is a story of cannibalism told by Josephus in his “Jewish War” (VI,193)[1] which occurred as a consequence of famine and starvation during the siege of Jerusalem in August AD 70 by Roman legions commanded by Titus. The tale is only one account of the horrors suffered at Jerusalem in the summer of 70.
Josephus relates that there was a Mary, daughter of Eleazar originally from the village of Bethezuba in the district of Perea, east of the Jordan River, who had previously fled to Jerusalem. Distinguished in family and fortune, her property, treasures and food had been plundered by the Jewish defenders of the city during the siege. Famine was “eating her heart out, and rage consuming her still faster”. Maddened by hunger she took the infant at her breast and said to him: “Poor little mite! In war, famine, and civil strife why should I keep you alive? With the Romans there is only slavery and that only if alive when they come; but famine is forestalling slavery, and the partisans are crueler than either. Come you must be food for me, to the partisans an avenging spirit, and to the world a tale, the only thing left to fill up the measure of Jewish misery”. And in “defiance to all natural feeling” she killed her son, then roasted him and ate one half, hiding the rest.
Almost immediately the rebels appeared (“sniffing the unholy smell”) and threatened to kill her on the spot unless she revealed what she had prepared. As she uncovered what was left of the child she offered them a share. They left her in horror and the “entire city could not stop thinking of this crime and abomination”. When the news reached the Romans, “some refused to believe, some were distressed but on most the effect was to add enormously to their detestation” of the enemy at hand. Titus disclaimed all responsibility as he had repeatedly offered peace and amnesty for surrender.
Steefen
When the religious audience reads history, many will see the history on which the sacrament is based.
DODea said
OK. Now I’m getting a little frightened being on this blog!!
One of the rites of passage here is to be anathematized by Steefen for insufficient admiration for his ideas. Just for the unsuspecting he supports the idea that the Romans invented Christianity and the life of Jesus is a composite of several figures including the life of Julius Caesar. He is also an active astrologer and has his own interpretation of ancient history. I find it all enormously entertaining. As Robert said he harms no one and the blog would be diminished without his contribution,. Steefen is a total immersion poster – you’re either all the way in or all the way out. His chief form of discourse is the interior monologue. (And the occasional video.)
There’s a couple whom are best to avoid, but remember they can’t hurt you over the Internet.
One of the rites of passage here is to be anathematized by Steefen for insufficient admiration for his ideas. Just for the unsuspecting he supports the idea that the Romans invented Christianity and the life of Jesus is a composite of several figures including the life of Julius Caesar. He is also an active astrologer and has his own interpretation of ancient history. I find it all enormously entertaining. As Robert said he harms no one and the blog would be diminished without his contribution,. Steefen is a total immersion poster – you’re either all the way in or all the way out. His chief form of discourse is the interior monologue. (And the occasional video.)
Robert and Stephen,
Thank you both! I was sort of kidding, but also a little unnerved. I am definitely all the way out, but look forward to following his dialogue for, as you say, the entertainment value.
It’s a relief to know no harm is done.
Omar6741
Who do you think went into the creation of the Biblical Jesus?
Steefen
I gave you
1. Jesus son of Mary of Bethezuba.
Here is a second:
2. Jesus son of Sapphias, governor of Tiberias, Galilee
(The biblical Jesus, the Galilean, who did not rebel against Rome is a 180 degree turn on the historical Jesus, the Galilean, who did rebel against Rome.)
Stephen
One of the rites of passage here is to be anathematized by Steefen for insufficient admiration for his ideas.
Steefen
something or someone that one vehemently dislikes.
a formal curse by a pope or a council of the Church,
excommunicating a person or denouncing a doctrine.
Lose your credentials and standing for misleading and miseducating people.
Cease means to stop doing something already begun. Desist means to refrain from doing something not yet begun.
Stephen
Just for the unsuspecting, he supports the idea that the Romans invented Christianity and the life of Jesus is a composite of several figures including the life of Julius Caesar.
He is also an active astrologer and has his own interpretation of ancient history.
I find it all enormously entertaining.
Steefen
I do not find religion or history entertaining or amusing when it is being investigated for accuracy, especially with so much righteousness, credentials for authority over others, standing and self-righteousness riding on the outcome.
Stephen
As Robert said he harms no one.
Steefen
Robert was talking about me?
We’ll see if Robert was talking about me because I asked him directly if he was referring to me.
Anyway, no one is harmed by good investigation and education.
They are harmed by those who miseducate and mislead.
Stephen
The blog would be diminished without his contribution.
Robert said
There’s a couple whom are best to avoid.
If you want to make yourself the leader of the “in” crowd, name them and give reasons. We will see how the reasons hold up.
I hold MS NBC in lower regard and have given reasons why. Second, I avoid that scholar/PhD, Richard Carrier. I have given reasons. Bart has given reasons. Joe Atwill tried to honor his PhD credential and Carrier was not worthy.
This will give us further reason to judge you.
Stephen said
Just for the unsuspecting he supports the idea that the Romans invented Christianity and the life of Jesus is a composite of several figures including the life of Julius Caesar.
Steefen
And you, Stephen? You support the idea that Jesus was a singular, biological human being who was crucified under Pontius Pilate?
Steefen said
Stephen said
Just for the unsuspecting he supports the idea that the Romans invented Christianity and the life of Jesus is a composite of several figures including the life of Julius Caesar.Steefen
And you, Stephen? You support the idea that Jesus was a singular, biological human being who was crucified under Pontius Pilate?
Yes I think that best interprets the evidence.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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