MMahmud said
You assume a lot. Which is fine, but it makes you sound like an idiot, so I would avoid that.
Yet that is your own methodology when it suits your pet theory, but let’s take a look at that, shall we?
2) it is a common desperate claim that Uthmans burning of Qurana indicates imperfect preservation. We Muslims have known of variations before it AND after.
Well, I didn’t say anything about ” Uthmans burning of Qurana” So it looks like YOU are the desperate one.
Variation contradicts the idea of perfection so here you have conceded my point and not paid very much attention to the talking points you recite. And if that wasn’t enough you decide to make variation your next point. So point 2 and 3 are really one point masquerading as two. I may be ignorant of Islam, but never of my very own claims.
You want to argue that variation in Christian texts makes it inferior while maintaining that it demonstrates perfection in your own texts
utterly amazing
So there is a lot more to be said about the perfect transmission of the QurN But we
2) Affirm that the differences are all from the Prophet himself considering the PLETHORA of narrations demonstrating he would recite the same verses with differences to the earliest Muslims who themselves were explicitly informed about the Quran being revealed in multiple ways.
It’s not a bug, it’s a feature!
So, whether you like it or not, you failed big time. I notice you are a bit rude in your speech so, don’t mind me if I do, I will respond in kind.
Rude? Do you mean honest?
Does it hurt to be as wrong as you? It sure will soon enough.
Well I’m still waiting for that to happen here and I’m sure you’ll respond with more it’s not a bug, it’s a feature logic, but what the heck, I’ll play.
spiker said
MMahmud said
You assume a lot. Which is fine, but it makes you sound like an idiot, so I would avoid that.
Yet that is your own methodology when it suits your pet theory, but let’s take a look at that, shall we?
2) it is a common desperate claim that Uthmans burning of Qurana indicates imperfect preservation. We Muslims have known of variations before it AND after.
Well, I didn’t say anything about ” Uthmans burning of Qurana” So it looks like YOU are the desperate one.
Variation contradicts the idea of perfection so here you have conceded my point and not paid very much attention to the talking points you recite. And if that wasn’t enough you decide to make variation your next point. So point 2 and 3 are really one point masquerading as two. I may be ignorant of Islam, but never of my very own claims.
You want to argue that variation in Christian texts makes it inferior while maintaining that it demonstrates perfection in your own texts
utterly amazing
So there is a lot more to be said about the perfect transmission of the QurN But we
2) Affirm that the differences are all from the Prophet himself considering the PLETHORA of narrations demonstrating he would recite the same verses with differences to the earliest Muslims who themselves were explicitly informed about the Quran being revealed in multiple ways.
It’s not a bug, it’s a feature!
So, whether you like it or not, you failed big time. I notice you are a bit rude in your speech so, don’t mind me if I do, I will respond in kind.
Rude? Do you mean honest? I can see why you would think questioning your idea is rude
Does it hurt to be as wrong as you? It sure will soon enough.
Well I’m still waiting for that to happen here and I’m sure you’ll respond with more it’s not a bug, it’s a feature logic, but what the heck, I’ll play.
spiker said
spiker said
MMahmud said
You assume a lot. Which is fine, but it makes you sound like an idiot, so I would avoid that.
Yet that is your own methodology when it suits your pet theory, but let’s take a look at that, shall we?
2) it is a common desperate claim that Uthmans burning of Qurana indicates imperfect preservation. We Muslims have known of variations before it AND after.
Well, I didn’t say anything about ” Uthmans burning of Qurana” So it looks like YOU are the desperate one.
Variation contradicts the idea of perfection so here you have conceded my point and not paid very much attention to the talking points you recite. And if that wasn’t enough you decide to make variation your next point. So point 2 and 3 are really one point masquerading as two. I may be ignorant of Islam, but never of my very own claims.
You want to argue that variation in Christian texts makes it inferior while maintaining that it demonstrates perfection in your own texts
utterly amazingSo there is a lot more to be said about the perfect transmission of the QurN But we
2) Affirm that the differences are all from the Prophet himself considering the PLETHORA of narrations demonstrating he would recite the same verses with differences to the earliest Muslims who themselves were explicitly informed about the Quran being revealed in multiple ways.
It’s not a bug, it’s a feature!
So, whether you like it or not, you failed big time. I notice you are a bit rude in your speech so, don’t mind me if I do, I will respond in kind.
Rude? Do you mean honest? I can see why you would think questioning your idea is rude
Does it hurt to be as wrong as you? It sure will soon enough.
Well I’m still waiting for that to happen here and I’m sure you’ll respond with more it’s not a bug, it’s a feature logic, but what the heck, I’ll play.
Yeah it isn’t a bug it is a feature because these “variations” are from the Prophet himself.
It only highlights your stupidity (being honest here) that you compare
1) Blatantly intentional and well known differences known to be from the Prophet himself to the very first generations of Muslims and
2) A bunch of contradictory texts written by anonymous non-eyewitnesses decades after the events(New Testament)
In fact even remotely comparing the to highlights your sheer stupidity. Maybe historical discussions are a little too above your brainpower? Yeah it’s not a bug. It is literally a feature-known to the earliest Muslims. You mocking it doesn’t make you any less stupid, just your stupidity more obvious.
“First, Jesus’ ascension. In Luke 24 (you can read it for yourself and see) Jesus rises from the dead, on that day meets with his disciples, and then, again that day, he ascends to heaven from the town of Bethany. But when you read Acts 1, written by the same author, you find that Jesus did not ascend on that day or at that place. Jesus instead spends forty days with his disciples proving to them that he had been raised from the dead…”
That’s an excellent point and baffling to me.
MMahmud said
MMahmud said
Yeah it isn’t a bug it is a feature because these “variations” are from the Prophet himself.
Based on what evidence?
It only highlights your stupidity (being honest here) that you compare
1) Blatantly intentional and well known differences known to be from the Prophet himself to the very first generations of Muslims and
2) A bunch of contradictory texts written by anonymous non-eyewitnesses decades after the events(New Testament)
Honest? Alrighty then.
Perhaps you want to look at the meaning of the word Blatant. ** you do not have permission to see this link **
But this only proves my point about you being ignorant of the substance of your own remarks. You rattle on but don’t seem to have even the slightest idea of what it is your sputtering about.
1.) I never made any comparison, but it hardly matters if people think variants are intentional, the result is the same.
2.) and I certainly never mocked “it” but we can see plainly how you are oversensitive to criticism.
For the record, I freely admit there seems to be superior transmission of Muslim vs Christian texts. I personally don’t care about the whole imported ideas school of thought. However, your laughable compression of criticism of your arguments with mocking the Koran is completelyamazing
Funny, I had a bit of an impression from some of your talk here that you don’t read Ehrmans books yourself.
In any case I’ll start a thread in the other section comparing Christian texts to Quranic transmission as well as an explanation of how Quranic “variants” (which exist to this day) are completely non-analogous to variants in Christian texts. In short, the former are there by design(a feature) and the latter are there due to imperfect transmission(I.e bugs.)
In any caspiker said
MMahmud said
MMahmud said
Yeah it isn’t a bug it is a feature because these “variations” are from the Prophet himself.
Based on what evidence?
It only highlights your stupidity (being honest here) that you compare
1) Blatantly intentional and well known differences known to be from the Prophet himself to the very first generations of Muslims and
2) A bunch of contradictory texts written by anonymous non-eyewitnesses decades after the events(New Testament)Honest? Alrighty then.
Perhaps you want to look at the meaning of the word Blatant. ** you do not have permission to see this link **
But this only proves my point about you being ignorant of the substance of your own remarks. You rattle on but don’t seem to have even the slightest idea of what it is your sputtering about.
1.) I never made any comparison, but it hardly matters if people think variants are intentional, the result is the same.
2.) and I certainly never mocked “it” but we can see plainly how you are oversensitive to criticism.
For the record, I freely admit there seems to be superior transmission of Muslim vs Christian texts. I personally don’t care about the whole imported ideas school of thought. However, your laughable compression of criticism of your arguments with mocking the Koran is completelyamazing
r
MMahmud said
r
Not sure what that is supposed to mean
Even Muslim scholars disagree with you,
Muhammad Mustafa Al-Azami Professor Emeritus at King Saud University, wrote:
We must nevertheless take into consideration that there are over 250,000 manuscripts of the Qur’an scattered all over the globe. When comparing them it is always possible to find copying mistakes here and there; this is an example of human fallibility, and has been recognized as such by authors who have written extensively on the subject of “unintentional errors.” Such occurrences cannot be used to prove any corruption within the Quran.
The take away? variants exist that did not come from Muhammad. Your argument that they exist by design is both incompetent and intellectually dishonest by design.
Most Muslims should be proud of the achievement of the kind of textual stability which the Qur’an exhibits. Why youwould need to throw a tantrum to protect false beliefs is utterly amazing but true to form.
If you want to waste your time rattling away on some other thread, go right ahead, but I can’t imagine how your arguments would be more plausible than your previous arguments that you couldn’t support either.
Judith said
“First, Jesus’ ascension. In Luke 24 (you can read it for yourself and see) Jesus rises from the dead, on that day meets with his disciples, and then, again that day, he ascends to heaven from the town of Bethany. But when you read Acts 1, written by the same author, you find that Jesus did not ascend on that day or at that place. Jesus instead spends forty days with his disciples proving to them that he had been raised from the dead…”
That’s an excellent point and baffling to me.
Yea, an excellent point raised by BDE. Of course, many people seem to forget what they say in other places, but it seems that the second account must have been developed during the working out of theological arguments; arguments over whether there was a bodily resurection.
spiker said
MMahmud said
rNot sure what that is supposed to mean
Even Muslim scholars disagree with you,
Muhammad Mustafa Al-Azami Professor Emeritus at King Saud University, wrote:
We must nevertheless take into consideration that there are over 250,000 manuscripts of the Qur’an scattered all over the globe. When comparing them it is always possible to find copying mistakes here and there; this is an example of human fallibility, and has been recognized as such by authors who have written extensively on the subject of “unintentional errors.” Such occurrences cannot be used to prove any corruption within the Quran.
The take away? variants exist that did not come from Muhammad. Your argument that they exist by design is both incompetent and intellectually dishonest by design.
Most Muslims should be proud of the achievement of the kind of textual stability which the Qur’an exhibits. Why youwould need to throw a tantrum to protect false beliefs is utterly amazing but true to form.
If you want to waste your time rattling away on some other thread, go right ahead, but I can’t imagine how your arguments would be more plausible than your previous arguments that you couldn’t support either.
Early manuscripts are identical in meaning to the Qurans found today.
Your “take away” from that Muslim scholar is a breathtaking exercise in stupidity.
The existence of scribal errors doesn’t change in the slightest the fact that modern day manuscripts match the earliest ones.
Nor does it change the fact that variations in meaning are not only preserved even to this day (some Muslims recite on ayah as Maliki yawm iddeen and others as Maalikiyawmiddeen based on the different recitation which is attested to by records of the EARLIEST Muslims who claimed the Prophet literally informed them there were different modes of recitation.)
Really don’t act so desperate. The fact that variances in meaning are there by design(and this is attested to by the earliest sources) is proof of the flawless transmission of the Quran.
The existence of scribal errors in some manuscripts is even further proof of the perfect transmission of the Quran because the earliest manuscripts flawlessly match(in meaning) modern day manuscripts that Muslims agree on.
Judith said
MMahmud, A theologian once argued the very opposite: The fact that the Quran is perfect is proof that it was made so by men perfecting it.
Heard back from the theologian today and this is what he said: “It is widely recognized that the Qur’an took about 200 years before it became codified and all rival versions were destroyed. The Qur’an is like Lake Tahoe: beautiful, deep, ripple-free (except, of course, for the so-called Satanic Verses about which Salman Rushdie wrote his famous book). The Christian Bible is more like the Colorado River: fast and furious at times, highly oxygenated, turning into meager rivulets, then gaining vigor and speed again. It is unpredictable as, I believe, the God of Jesus is. In any court case, when the testimonies of several witnesses agree verbatim, we know that there is something wrong. Jesus struck different people in many different ways. There MUST be divergence, discrepancy, even contradiction if the Word became flesh rather than text. For Muslims, the Qur’an is divine, it actually almost IS God. For Christians this would sound like and be tantamount to idolatry (or bibliolatry – the worship of a book). The Christian revelation does not happen through words but the WORD, experienced, lived, and suffered for by His Son. Looking to HIM we see many variegated things depending on our age, our life story, our needs, our burdens. If the Bible means something to us today, it must reflect the multi-faceted reality of life. This is why we have a book with four very distinct gospel accounts and the testimony of Paul which is completely divergent from the rest.
Am not sure this clarifies how the perfection of the Qur’an can seem less authentic (true) to Christians than the huge discrepancies we find in the gospels. Perhaps it is simply how we believe that determines which we think is authentic.
Judith said
Judith said
MMahmud, A theologian once argued the very opposite: The fact that the Quran is perfect is proof that it was made so by men perfecting it.Heard back from the theologian today and this is what he said: “It is widely recognized that the Qur’an took about 200 years before it became codified and all rival versions were destroyed. The Qur’an is like Lake Tahoe: beautiful, deep, ripple-free (except, of course, for the so-called Satanic Verses about which Salman Rushdie wrote his famous book). The Christian Bible is more like the Colorado River: fast and furious at times, highly oxygenated, turning into meager rivulets, then gaining vigor and speed again. It is unpredictable as, I believe, the God of Jesus is. In any court case, when the testimonies of several witnesses agree verbatim, we know that there is something wrong. Jesus struck different people in many different ways. There MUST be divergence, discrepancy, even contradiction if the Word became flesh rather than text. For Muslims, the Qur’an is divine, it actually almost IS God. For Christians this would sound like and be tantamount to idolatry (or bibliolatry – the worship of a book). The Christian revelation does not happen through words but the WORD, experienced, lived, and suffered for by His Son. Looking to HIM we see many variegated things depending on our age, our life story, our needs, our burdens. If the Bible means something to us today, it must reflect the multi-faceted reality of life. This is why we have a book with four very distinct gospel accounts and the testimony of Paul which is completely divergent from the rest.
Am not sure this clarifies how the perfection of the Qur’an can seem less authentic (true) to Christians than the huge discrepancies we find in the gospels. Perhaps it is simply how we believe that determines which we think is authentic.
They don’t have any shame in lying. Evidence: This theologians first sentence.
Lying for Jesus is the one commandment Christians follow. This pastor is of course a disbeliever and he says this because he wants to believe it and/or he wants others to believe it as well.
Those Satanic verses don’t exist and never happened. Christians are idolators for worshiping a human being. This is the reason Christians go to hell when they die and why the pastor can expect that for himself. What a ridiculous idea that their god is necessarily contradictory.
It just highlights how some people deserve to be misguided.
MMahmud said
Judith said
Judith said
MMahmud, A theologian once argued the very opposite: The fact that the Quran is perfect is proof that it was made so by men perfecting it.Heard back from the theologian today and this is what he said: “It is widely recognized that the Qur’an took about 200 years before it became codified and all rival versions were destroyed. The Qur’an is like Lake Tahoe: beautiful, deep, ripple-free (except, of course, for the so-called Satanic Verses about which Salman Rushdie wrote his famous book). The Christian Bible is more like the Colorado River: fast and furious at times, highly oxygenated, turning into meager rivulets, then gaining vigor and speed again. It is unpredictable as, I believe, the God of Jesus is. In any court case, when the testimonies of several witnesses agree verbatim, we know that there is something wrong. Jesus struck different people in many different ways. There MUST be divergence, discrepancy, even contradiction if the Word became flesh rather than text. For Muslims, the Qur’an is divine, it actually almost IS God. For Christians this would sound like and be tantamount to idolatry (or bibliolatry – the worship of a book). The Christian revelation does not happen through words but the WORD, experienced, lived, and suffered for by His Son. Looking to HIM we see many variegated things depending on our age, our life story, our needs, our burdens. If the Bible means something to us today, it must reflect the multi-faceted reality of life. This is why we have a book with four very distinct gospel accounts and the testimony of Paul which is completely divergent from the rest.
Am not sure this clarifies how the perfection of the Qur’an can seem less authentic (true) to Christians than the huge discrepancies we find in the gospels. Perhaps it is simply how we believe that determines which we think is authentic.
They don’t have any shame in lying. Evidence: This theologians first sentence.
Lying for Jesus is the one commandment Christians follow. This pastor is of course a disbeliever and he says this because he wants to believe it and/or he wants others to believe it as well.
Those Satanic verses don’t exist and never happened. Christians are idolators for worshiping a human being. This is the reason Christians go to hell when they die and why the pastor can expect that for himself. What a ridiculous idea that their god is necessarily contradictory.
It just highlights how some people deserve to be misguided.
MMahmud, I think we just don’t know. I thought this excellent theologian would know what he was talking about but then I thought I knew something about the Bible after endless study groups, a lifetime of Sunday School and church and Bible school. Through this blog, I’ve learned much that I never knew.
This blog is about the New Testament. As a believer, I know I’d get squished in a skinny minute if I were to begin trying to put over my beliefs. Perhaps we would all be wise to limit our discussions to the New Testament.
Judith said
MMahmud said
Judith said
Judith said
MMahmud, A theologian once argued the very opposite: The fact that the Quran is perfect is proof that it was made so by men perfecting it.Heard back from the theologian today and this is what he said: “It is widely recognized that the Qur’an took about 200 years before it became codified and all rival versions were destroyed. The Qur’an is like Lake Tahoe: beautiful, deep, ripple-free (except, of course, for the so-called Satanic Verses about which Salman Rushdie wrote his famous book). The Christian Bible is more like the Colorado River: fast and furious at times, highly oxygenated, turning into meager rivulets, then gaining vigor and speed again. It is unpredictable as, I believe, the God of Jesus is. In any court case, when the testimonies of several witnesses agree verbatim, we know that there is something wrong. Jesus struck different people in many different ways. There MUST be divergence, discrepancy, even contradiction if the Word became flesh rather than text. For Muslims, the Qur’an is divine, it actually almost IS God. For Christians this would sound like and be tantamount to idolatry (or bibliolatry – the worship of a book). The Christian revelation does not happen through words but the WORD, experienced, lived, and suffered for by His Son. Looking to HIM we see many variegated things depending on our age, our life story, our needs, our burdens. If the Bible means something to us today, it must reflect the multi-faceted reality of life. This is why we have a book with four very distinct gospel accounts and the testimony of Paul which is completely divergent from the rest.
Am not sure this clarifies how the perfection of the Qur’an can seem less authentic (true) to Christians than the huge discrepancies we find in the gospels. Perhaps it is simply how we believe that determines which we think is authentic.
They don’t have any shame in lying. Evidence: This theologians first sentence.
Lying for Jesus is the one commandment Christians follow. This pastor is of course a disbeliever and he says this because he wants to believe it and/or he wants others to believe it as well.
Those Satanic verses don’t exist and never happened. Christians are idolators for worshiping a human being. This is the reason Christians go to hell when they die and why the pastor can expect that for himself. What a ridiculous idea that their god is necessarily contradictory.
It just highlights how some people deserve to be misguided.
MMahmud, I think we just don’t know. I thought this excellent theologian would know what he was talking about but then I thought I knew something about the Bible after endless study groups, a lifetime of Sunday School and church and Bible school. Through this blog, I’ve learned much that I never knew.
This blog is about the New Testament. As a believer, I know I’d get squished in a skinny minute if I were to begin trying to put over my beliefs. Perhaps we would all be wise to limit our discussions to the New Testament.
I didn’t start this thread but someone did and I had to speak. To make your sentence accurate, you don’t know. We all know the New Testament is a bunch of letters, only a few of which are authentic, four noneyewitness accounts written by anonymous men with no known chain of transmission decades after the events, men who copied from one another and contradicted one another in their views of events and theology, plus a vivid rant of some apocalyptic Christian named John.
You would get squished in a skinny minute because Christianity is false and easily disproven. The same for every other faith other than Islam which is the only religion acceptable before God. All others are for Satan.
This Christian theologian is a proper theologian and not a fake theologian and the evidence is that he takes his job seriously-to lie for Jesus and cover up the glaring flaws in the collection of texts he claims is scripture. This is what Christian theologians have been doing for centuries and this one is fulfilling his role properly by doing so.
The role of a Muslim theologian however is to tell the truth.
MMahmud wrote
I didn’t start this thread but someone did and I had to speak. To make your sentence accurate, you don’t know. We all know the New Testament is a bunch of letters, only a few of which are authentic, four noneyewitness accounts written by anonymous men with no known chain of transmission decades after the events, men who copied from one another and contradicted one another in their views of events and theology, plus a vivid rant of some apocalyptic Christian named John.
You would get squished in a skinny minute because Christianity is false and easily disproven. The same for every other faith other than Islam which is the only religion acceptable before God. All others are for Satan.
This Christian theologian is a proper theologian and not a fake theologian and the evidence is that he takes his job seriously-to lie for Jesus and cover up the glaring flaws in the collection of texts he claims is scripture. This is what Christian theologians have been doing for centuries and this one is fulfilling his role properly by doing so.
The role of a Muslim theologian however is to tell the truth.
Oh dear. I guess if Christians are destined for Hell then an old atheist like myself must have a real hot fate in store. Fortunately the only people who go to Hell are those who believe in it and they’re already there. Unfortunately they spend all their time in Hell trying to drag the rest of us in there with them.
If you want to know what’s wrong with Christianity then all you need to do is ask a Muslim. If you want to know what’s wrong with Islam all you need to do is ask a Christian.
Friends please think about what you’re doing. Don’t squander this fleeting moment, this precious gift, this one life you have, on this foolishness.
For four thousand years devotees in ancient Egypt found their salvation through Osiris, and now the god is just a name in a history book. A thousand years from now both Jesus and Mohammad will meet his fate, known only to specialists of the past. Our children will have moved on to achieve a better future, not drowning in an ocean of cant and obscurantism, but an enlightened race taking it’s place among the stars. You see, I’m an optimist.
Stephen said
MMahmud wroteI didn’t start this thread but someone did and I had to speak. To make your sentence accurate, you don’t know. We all know the New Testament is a bunch of letters, only a few of which are authentic, four noneyewitness accounts written by anonymous men with no known chain of transmission decades after the events, men who copied from one another and contradicted one another in their views of events and theology, plus a vivid rant of some apocalyptic Christian named John.
You would get squished in a skinny minute because Christianity is false and easily disproven. The same for every other faith other than Islam which is the only religion acceptable before God. All others are for Satan.
This Christian theologian is a proper theologian and not a fake theologian and the evidence is that he takes his job seriously-to lie for Jesus and cover up the glaring flaws in the collection of texts he claims is scripture. This is what Christian theologians have been doing for centuries and this one is fulfilling his role properly by doing so.
The role of a Muslim theologian however is to tell the truth.
Oh dear. I guess if Christians are destined for Hell then an old atheist like myself must have a real hot fate in store. Fortunately the only people who go to Hell are those who believe in it and they’re already there. Unfortunately they spend all their time in Hell trying to drag the rest of us in there with them.
If you want to know what’s wrong with Christianity then all you need to do is ask a Muslim. If you want to know what’s wrong with Islam all you need to do is ask a Christian.
Friends please think about what you’re doing. Don’t squander this fleeting moment, this precious gift, this one life you have, on this foolishness.
For four thousand years devotees in ancient Egypt found their salvation through Osiris, and now the god is just a name in a history book. A thousand years from now both Jesus and Mohammad will meet his fate, known only to specialists of the past. Our children will have moved on to achieve a better future, not drowning in an ocean of cant and obscurantism, but an enlightened race taking it’s place among the stars. You see, I’m an optimist.
This life will end. The next is for eternity.
MMahmud said
Stephen said
MMahmud wroteI didn’t start this thread but someone did and I had to speak. To make your sentence accurate, you don’t know. We all know the New Testament is a bunch of letters, only a few of which are authentic, four noneyewitness accounts written by anonymous men with no known chain of transmission decades after the events, men who copied from one another and contradicted one another in their views of events and theology, plus a vivid rant of some apocalyptic Christian named John.
You would get squished in a skinny minute because Christianity is false and easily disproven. The same for every other faith other than Islam which is the only religion acceptable before God. All others are for Satan.
This Christian theologian is a proper theologian and not a fake theologian and the evidence is that he takes his job seriously-to lie for Jesus and cover up the glaring flaws in the collection of texts he claims is scripture. This is what Christian theologians have been doing for centuries and this one is fulfilling his role properly by doing so.
The role of a Muslim theologian however is to tell the truth.
Oh dear. I guess if Christians are destined for Hell then an old atheist like myself must have a real hot fate in store. Fortunately the only people who go to Hell are those who believe in it and they’re already there. Unfortunately they spend all their time in Hell trying to drag the rest of us in there with them.
If you want to know what’s wrong with Christianity then all you need to do is ask a Muslim. If you want to know what’s wrong with Islam all you need to do is ask a Christian.
Friends please think about what you’re doing. Don’t squander this fleeting moment, this precious gift, this one life you have, on this foolishness.
For four thousand years devotees in ancient Egypt found their salvation through Osiris, and now the god is just a name in a history book. A thousand years from now both Jesus and Mohammad will meet his fate, known only to specialists of the past. Our children will have moved on to achieve a better future, not drowning in an ocean of cant and obscurantism, but an enlightened race taking it’s place among the stars. You see, I’m an optimist.
This life will end. The next is for eternity.
MMahmud asserted
This life will end. The next is for eternity.
Well this life will certainly end. But I have not seen any reason to think there is anything else. Which is why we need to work to make our lives and the lives of others as fulfilled as possible.
I will admit that my experience with these kinds of discussions has been solely with Christians so I would be interested to hear if Islam has anything novel to contribute other than assertions.
Stephen said
MMahmud assertedThis life will end. The next is for eternity.
Well this life will certainly end. But I have not seen any reason to think there is anything else. Which is why we need to work to make our lives and the lives of others as fulfilled as possible.
I will admit that my experience with these kinds of discussions has been solely with Christians so I would be interested to hear if Islam has anything novel to contribute other than assertions.
It’s because we only have one shot and being saved from eternal punishment that we should give it our all.
It’s because we only have one shot and being saved from eternal punishment that we should give it our all.
Would any god punish anyone knowing whatever that human did any other human would do given the same disposition, temptation and genetic inclination that proved irresistible?
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