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Gospel of Mark Authorship - Mike Winger
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jeffmd90

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December 1, 2020 - 9:28 am

So, I have started watching a series of sermons on the Gospel of Mark by Mike Winger and he talks about the question of who authored Mark.  This is some of what he has to say.  I’ve tidied it up a little bit.  

 

So what you’ll hear from everyone, it seems, nowadays, is that ‘all the Gospels are anonymous’.  Nobody knows who wrote them, and they were published anonymously, and the names that you see on your Gospels were added way later, so long after that nobody knew who wrote them.  I’ll quote Bart Ehrman here, Bart Ehrman says, “some books such as the Gospels had been written anonymously only later to be ascribed to certain authors who probably did not write them, apostles and friends of the apostles”.  He wrote that in his book Jesus interrupted , where he interrupts Jesus a lot.  

Richard Dawkins, who we know is a ‘great’ Bible scholar – no actually no he’s not – but Richard Dawkins says “nobody knows who the four evangelists were but they almost certainly never met Jesus personally”.  He wrote that in his book The God Delusion where he said a lot of other things that were, well, delusional (bit of a comedian this guy)

 

I’ll move forward a little to his points on authorship.  

 

The chief argument here for saying Mark didn’t write Mark is that it was originally anonymous…what they won’t tell you, while you’re reading Mark…never does he say ‘and I, Mark, wrote this Gospel”.  It doesn’t say that, that’s true.  What they won’t tell you though, is that this was a standard way of writing a historical work at the time.  It was just normal, you don’t write your name in the middle of the text and say ‘I’m the guy writing this’.  

Let me give you some examples: Plutarch wrote fifty biographies but never mentioned his own name, in fifty biographies.  We don’t doubt that Plutarch wrote them, they wouldn’t challenge that because that’s not scripture and there’s sometimes a double standard when it comes to the Bible.  Plato’s writings, anonymous.  They’re anonymous, how do you know Plato wrote those?  Because of the historical attribution to Plato that’s always been attributed to Plato.  So we open it, and see Plato, pretty simple.  Plato, not playdough.  Porphyry also wrote anonymously, Clement of Rome wrote anonymously…it was standard to have works that were anonymous back then especially if they were historical in nature.  If you were trying to say I’m writing history you didn’t want to be putting yourself in the story, because it seemed too de-historicising, as if it were more of a story in history.

E.P. Sanders said, “the claim of an anonymous history was higher than that of a named work in the ancient world.  An anonymous book, rather like an encyclopaedia article today, implicitly claimed complete knowledge and reliability”.  Meaning it’s just fitting, you would expect to write his name into it like that.  It’s their way of standing back and saying, this is what really happened, it’s not just my opinion.  That’s the nature of this sort of anonymity in the text.

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janmaru

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December 1, 2020 - 12:48 pm

Plutarch in “The Life of Demosthenes” (1) says: “I was in Rome and various parts of Italy I had no leisure to practice myself in the Roman language, owing to my public duties and the number of my pupils in philosophy […]”
So he speaks in the first person.
And before (2) “However, when one has undertaken to compose a history based upon readings which are not readily accessible or even found at home, but in foreign countries, for the most part…” showing that in the same text he had a concept of history surprisingly modern.

For Bart Erhman complete understanding of the issue, you can read this post: “Why Are the Gospels Anonymous?” (3) or this one: “Why Would an Ancient Author Write a Book Anonymously??” (4)
You would be surprised to find that the argument is much more complex than what you have been expounding about.

(1) Plut. Dem. 2.2
(2) Plut. Dem. 2.1
(3) ** you do not have permission to see this link **
(4) ** you do not have permission to see this link **

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jeffmd90

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December 1, 2020 - 12:59 pm

I am aware of that.  But I think it is important to document what apologists are telling people so we are able to counteract them when they distort facts or simplify complex issues.

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JAS

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January 22, 2022 - 4:19 pm

I understand that the “long” ending of Mark is considered a later addition, using bits from Matthew and Luke. Is the assumption that it was added before the books were collected together as a unit? That is, is the suggestion that someone added the ending to the book of Mark after the idea of the New Testament was formed, with the notion of making the books in rapid succession appear to agree, or that some area that held only the tradition of Mark added the sections at the end to their legacy document once they found out about the other traditions, for the sake making, in their minds, their own account fuller. This is, of course, a question that requires more than a fair share of speculation.

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Robert
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January 22, 2022 - 10:28 pm
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brenmcg

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January 23, 2022 - 6:40 am

JAS said
That is, is the suggestion that someone added the ending to the book of Mark after the idea of the New Testament was formed, with the notion of making the books in rapid succession appear to agree, or that some area that held only the tradition of Mark added the sections at the end to their legacy document once they found out about the other traditions, for the sake making, in their minds, their own account fuller. 

  

This doesn’t work as an explanation. If someone is going to add and ending to Mark to make it agree with Matthew/Luke they would add in a beginning.

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JAS

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January 23, 2022 - 8:43 am

brenmcg said 

This doesn’t work as an explanation. If someone is going to add and ending to Mark to make it agree with Matthew/Luke they would add in a beginning.

It isn’t necessarily a matter of making a full appearance of agreement. The final portions add highly significant events with profound theological implications, not minor details. This should not be interpreted as a justification, merely a technical question about potential motivation. There is sometimes the idea that the Bible was altered with calculated and nefarious intentions, when it might just as well have been a kind of misguided naivete. That does not make it any more honest or accurate, of course.

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brenmcg

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January 23, 2022 - 5:43 pm

Right but then the editor is adding things they think are important – not trying to make it agree to Matthew/Luke.

But this explanation doesnt really work either because the virgin birth is also important but this doesnt get added.

The best explanation is that the original ending was lost and verses 9-20 are an attempt to recreate it from memory.

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Robert
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January 23, 2022 - 5:55 pm
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brenmcg

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January 23, 2022 - 7:26 pm

Because its clearly influenced by both matthew and luke, and because most markan scholars incorrectly hold to markan priority they can’t therefore believe the matthew/luke influenced 16:9-20 would be original to mark.

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Robert
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January 23, 2022 - 8:04 pm
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Stephen
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January 23, 2022 - 8:17 pm

Robert said
We know the ending was composed very early based on its inclusion in early translations, at a time when gospels were apparently still being circulated separately, and when the gospel of Mark was not circulating as widely as the others. But we do not have hard evidence documenting this.

  

I agree that 16:8 is likely the original ending but what keeps me from being all in on it is how worrisome the ending of Mark was to Christians so early on.  Maybe the folks who added the other endings were dissatisfied not with the lack of an ending but with the way it ended.  So everyone might have agreed the gospel ended at 16:8 but some Christians were disturbed enough by what it said to provide some commentary.  

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Robert
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January 23, 2022 - 8:27 pm
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JAS

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January 23, 2022 - 8:45 pm

Might we not also presume that people were trying their best to record what they could remember of what Mark had been teaching, since he did not himself write it down and was probably not around to consult with by the time it was written? On the other hand, it might be hard to accept the idea that they just forgot the whole resurrection part.

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Robert
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January 23, 2022 - 8:59 pm
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Stephen
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January 23, 2022 - 9:18 pm

Robert said
Other parts of Mark’s text also made other Christians uncomfortable. Similarly, Matthew and Luke could not tolerate how stupid the disciples are portrayed in Mark’s gospel.

  

What fascinates me is the simple fact that they took Mark and adapted it rather than ignore it or suppress it in order to start from scratch.  So Matthew and Luke (and John?) clearly regarded Mark as an authority – but not authoritative!  And it’s worthwhile to note that the other gospel writers did not treat Mark as if they considered it inerrant, infallible scripture.    

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Robert
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January 23, 2022 - 9:31 pm
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JAS

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January 24, 2022 - 6:23 am

Are we ignoring the likely view that they considered it an important artifact on its own merits? It was a new religion, with not much tangible to show from its young history. You do not merely discard important artifacts.

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Robert
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January 24, 2022 - 7:45 am
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brenmcg

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January 24, 2022 - 3:12 pm

Robert said
Once again, your view, what you consider to be the very best explanation, is almost universally rejected by scholars who have spent their whole careers studying the data. Why can’t they bring themselves to believe your brilliant views?

  

Well as Mark Goodacre says

the Marcan priority theory has been honoured by time; it provides a sound basis for convincing redaction-critical readings of Matthew and Luke and, most importantly, the alternatives seem unattractive and implausible ** you do not have permission to see this link **.

There is, nevertheless, something disturbing about a situation in which none of the standard text books find it easy to provide strong, textual grounds for believing that it was Mark and not Matthew who wrote first, particularly given the universal Patristic support for the opposite view.

Once its recognised that the Griesbach hypothesis is neither unattractive nor implausible, Matthean priority will be recognised as being obviously true.

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