It is only in the the Destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem confusion
about the future of Temple high holy days (one of which is Yom Kippur)
that one can invent the interpretation that Jesus died (as atonement) for the sins of the world.

Therefore, Jesus was NOT crucified by Pontius Pilate at the prompting of Caiaphas.

Argumentation Specialist
When the Temple stop functioning as a Temple because it was overrun by Jewish rebels during the Jewish Civil War, before General Titus stood at its entrance.

Robert said
Once again your preferred and forced interpretation fails to account for the enormous and early Pauline evidence to the contrary. Unless you want to finally come clean about your previously suggested bizarre theory that that authentic Pauline epistles were actually written much later by Josephus. Otherwise how can you account for Paul’s earlier theology of redemptive atonement through the cross? 

  

Superman is said to have come on the scene in year a.

Batman existed in year a+2.

Batman said something about Superman.

Superman is known to have been a fictional character.

But Batman said something about Superman, therefore Superman cannot be a fictional character.

I disagree with that line of reasoning, Robert.

= = =

Superman is said to have come on the scene June 1938.

Superman was created by Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster, and Wayne Boring.

Because Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster, and Wayne Boring are real, Superman must be real.

I disagree with that line of reasoning, Robert.

= = =

Paul said Jesus was an angel.

Paul is 100% credible.

Therefore, Jesus must be a human and an angel.

I disagree with that line of reasoning, Robert.

Paul never met the earthly Jesus

because an earthly Jesus of the late 20s / early 30s never existed

and

because supposedly he was nowhere to be found when Jesus was making a name for himself with preaching, miracles, and Holy Week events.

He didn’t want to help cheer for the execution of Jesus, he didn’t want to help bribe Judas, he didn’t testify against Jesus before the Sanhedrin,
but he pops up after crucifixion and resurrection. How consistent: only a dead and resurrected Jesus in his life and in his ministry.

Paul only knows the Jesus in his own mind. Paul is not a witness of an historical Jesus.

Let me say that again: Paul is not a witness of an historical Jesus.

Paul is not a primary source. Paul does not represent primary evidence of Jesus, Robert.

Paul did not see the crucifixion. Paul did not see Jesus lose consciousness on the cross. Paul did not see Jesus put in a tomb closed by rolled stone. Paul did not visit the tomb and inspect it.  Paul persecuted Christians not because of something personally done to him. Paul did not like Jesus who was zealous for Temple Judaism, so he persecuted the followers of a person who had a zeal for Temple Judaism. Paul persecuted the followers of an apocalyptic prophet, what? Because he did not believe in Jewish Apocalypticism?

Not only is Paul barely a secondary source, he has character problems.

Steefen said
Jesus as Atonement for Sins

Forgiveness of Sins

Cleansing/Purging of Sins in Purgatory

Dr. Ehrman, aren’t you leaving out Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement for cleansing misdeeds) as a way God provided a way for dealing with sin?

= = =

Bart Ehrman

Blog Entry: June 3rd, 2021: You Don’t Want to Blaspheme the Spirit! What’s It Mean?

Steefen

Jesus died only for the sin/s that required further (extra strength) atonement, not the ones that could be

1) forgiven

2) purged

3) atoned for on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement)

That is the implication of your post, Professor Ehrman.

Jesus died so his friend Judas could be atoned for?

Jesus died so Caiaphas could be atoned for?

Jesus died so Pilate could be atoned for?

Jesus died for the Wicked Tenants who killed the Landowners’ servants and son?

  

Bart Ehrman
I personally don’t leave it out, no. One of the puzzles of the NT is why the authors don’t seem to take it into account as a provision by God for sin. I suppose they think that since the perfect sacrifice has been made, a YEARLY sacrifice is no longer necessary.

I do not date the letters of Paul. That is outside of the scope of my inspection. My book is more than 450 pages, 8-1/2 x 11 and many more screens in the digital version. More importantly, there is no proof that James abandoned the redemption of Yom Kippur for the historical fiction of his brother’s crucifixion and resurrection. That would have been an issue in pre-Temple Destruction Judea. No issue: it did not happen.

If you would like to provide a rebuttal to my points, that may be of interest to me or it may not. Begin with your strongest rebuttal points.

Robert, do you agree that instead of Jesus being taken down from the cross and placed in a tomb, he was left on a cross?

Was he resurrected from death?

If you agree with the high probability that Jesus was not placed in a tomb, resurrected from death, and was not to be found in the tomb, how are the contents of Paul’s letters about the importance of Jesus’ resurrection grounded in facts?

With your concept of Paul, Paul not having an earthly crucified and resurrected Jesus damages his significance.

Robert
Either you really do not see the problem or you’re perhaps embarrassed and do not want to even acknowledge the issue.

Argumentation Specialist
Wrong on both counts.

Robert
James has nothing whatsoever to do with this. Your problem here is with Paul’s theology of redemption.

Argumentation Specialist
Wrong again.

Paul respected James as an authority figure. 1) The death and resurrection plank of his Christology needs James approval, 2) Jesus’ crucifixion and death as atonement with respect to Yom Kippur plank of his Christology needs James approval,  and 3) the remembrance of Jesus via re-enactment of the Lord’s Supper, Communion, needs James approval. These issues are as controversial as the issues James identifies at Acts 21: 21: teaching all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that 1) they ought not to circumcise their children, 2) neither to walk after the customs.

You do not think Jesus was resurrected and Paul’s theology is not grounded in facts; yet, you want me to address Paul and his nonsense. You are not going to hold a door open for me to follow that, and I am not going that way if you do, Robert.

1 Corinthians 15:12-19

Now if Christ is preached, that he has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.

Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we witnessed against God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.

For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.

Romans 1: 4

And declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

1 Corinthians 15: 3-5

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures and that he appeared to . . .

Steefen

Robert, you are mistaken, there is nothing else that really needs to be read. Paul is saying God is out of the business of forgiving sins, Yom Kippur no longer has the significance it once had. You think one man, Paul, not even an angel, not even the Son of Man, has the authority to rewrite religion and Jewish theology?

Paul’s theology of Jesus’ redemptive death needs to have been vetted and accepted.

Your criticism in these matters are unacceptable, Robert.

Robert said
The discussion is not whether Paul was correct or not, whether James approved of Paul’s theology or not, but rather when Paul’s theology of redemptive atonement was developed. You said:

It is only in the the Destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem confusion about the future of Temple high holy days (one of which is Yom Kippur) that one can invent the interpretation that Jesus died (as atonement) for the sins of the world.

Thus you are de facto dating Paul’s theology of redemptive atonement after the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem. 

  

Go on: in a convincing/persuasive way, given the issues I raised, date Paul’s theology of redemptive atonement before the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem.

Steefen said
Jesus as Atonement for Sins

Forgiveness of Sins

Cleansing/Purging of Sins in Purgatory

Dr. Ehrman, aren’t you leaving out Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement for cleansing misdeeds) as a way God provided a way for dealing with sin?

= = =

Bart Ehrman

Blog Entry: June 3rd, 2021: You Don’t Want to Blaspheme the Spirit! What’s It Mean?

Steefen

Jesus died only for the sin/s that required further (extra strength) atonement, not the ones that could be

1) forgiven

2) purged

3) atoned for on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement)

That is the implication of your post, Professor Ehrman.

Jesus died so his friend Judas could be atoned for?

Jesus died so Caiaphas could be atoned for?

Jesus died so Pilate could be atoned for?

Jesus died for the Wicked Tenants who killed the Landowners’ servants and son?

  

Steefen
Extra strength atonement is needed for the sins of the Watchers?

You may have to see the description of Reversing Hermon, by Dr. Michael S. Heiser to understand.

Here is part of the description of that book

Reversing Hermon is a groundbreaking work. It unveils what most in the modern Church have never heard regarding how the story of the sin of the Watchers in 1 Enoch 6-16 helped frame the mission of Jesus, the messiah. Jews of the first century expected the messiah to reverse the impact of the Watchers transgression.