I continue here with my string of guest posts written by scholars in honor of the blog’s tenth anniversary. Here is a post from Kurt Jaros, an evangelical Christian theologian and apologist, in which he explains how apologetics — the intellectual defense of the claims of the Christian faith — has grown and changed over the years, to represent something different today from, well, when I was involved with it in my younger days.
I imagine the post will elicit a response! Kurt will be happy to address your comments.
******************************
The Growing Landscape of Christian Apologetics
When did Jesus cleanse the Temple? In the Synoptics, this event occurs toward the end of his ministry (Matthew 21:12-13, Mark 11:15-17, Luke 19: 45-46), and serves as a catalyst for his enemies to have him arrested (Matthew 21:15, 23, & 45, Mark 11:18, Luke 19:47-48). In the Gospel of John, the event occurs early on in Jesus’s ministry (John 2:14). One common approach to answering the question is to harmonize the two descriptions into a fuller, unified narrative: Jesus cleansed the Temple twice, one time early in his ministry and another time later. There are many differences in the Gospels, and sometimes the explanations that Christians have offered to these variety of differences, from the simple to the complex, have been wanting. Some explanations present strained interpretations that strike many of us as implausible to have occurred in such a way. And yet, we may be left asking ourselves: Did John, a disciple of Jesus, really get his chronology wrong?
In 2019, I hosted a Christian apologetics conference in Chicago that pitted four views on differences in the Gospels. The representatives for those positions were Mike Licona, Craig Keener, Rob Bowman, and … Bart Ehrman. The event was purposed to help evangelical Christians become aware of competing views on a challenging subject. The year prior we held the same format on the alleged genocide commands found in the Old Testament! While many Christians shy away from challenging issues, some of us Christians are not afraid to tackle and wrestle with truly difficult questions in a truly open and honest manner.
After that event, Ehrman wrote a reflective report of the event. He observed,
What I was most interested in was how Christian apologetics – the intelligent “defense” of the claims of the faith – has changed in the many years since I was involved in the movement, shifted in ways I never would have imagined, very much away from our old fundamentalist assumptions and assertions into a far more reasonable and intellectually sustainable form of discourse that requires actual research and knowledge rather than hard-core theological assertion based on completely dubious premises.[1]
With the space permitting, I would like to explain how Ehrman’s observation is astute with regard to three areas of Christians apologetics: The problem of evil and suffering, the relationship between science and religion, and Gospel differences.
First, regarding the problem of evil, Christian philosophical literature has overcome modern objections to Christianity that pit the existence of evil against the existence of God as if they were logically contradictory. This category of objections from the problem(s) of evil, is called the logical problem of evil. One of the catalysts for the Christian philosophical resurgence of the late 20th century was Alvin Plantinga, who notably defeated this problem. Plantinga’s proposed solution included positing the existence of free will to demonstrate compatibility between the existence of God and the existence of evil. Atheists from the field of philosophy of religion admitted defeat to that type of objection. J. L. Mackie wrote, “Since this defence is formally possible … we can concede that the problem of evil does not, after all, show that the central doctrines of theism are logically inconsistent with one another.”[2] William Rowe wrote, “granted incompatibilism, there is a fairly compelling argument for the view that the existence of evil is logically consistent with the existence of the theistic God. (For a lucid statement of this argument see Alvin Plantinga, God, Freedom, and Evil (New York, 1974), 29-59).”[3] To be sure, some concerns pertaining to evil and suffering remain (e.g. the evidential problem of evil), but those are more modest and not as hard-hitting against Christian theism as the logical problem of evil.
Second, discussions about the nature and relationship of science and religion have also developed beyond shallow approaches encompassed by phrases like, “The Bible says it, so I believe it.” Numerous books have argued 1) that certain biblical passages do not require a literal interpretation (vis-à-vis ancient Hebrew poetry), 2) that church leaders from the past 2,000 years also believed in an old Earth, 3) that the conflict hypothesis of science and faith originating in the 19th century is false, and 4) that there is a need to correct popular level myths about the medieval church’s approach to science. Consider just the following academic publications: The Seven Pillars of Creation: The Bible, Science, and the Ecology of Wonder by William Brown (Oxford University Press, 2010), Belief in God in an Age of Science by John Polkinghorne (Yale University Press, 1998), Practical Mystic: Religion, Science, and A.S. Eddington by Matthew Stanley (University of Chicago Press, 2007), Mathematicians and Their Gods edited by Snezana Lawrence and Mark McCartney (Oxford University Press, 2015), Of Popes and Unicorns: Science, Christianity, and How the Conflict Thesis Fooled the World by David Hutchings and James C. Ungureanu (Oxford University Press, 2021), Galileo Goes to Jail and Other Myths about Science and Religion edited by Ronald Numbers (Harvard University Press, 2010), and Science & Religion edited by Gary Ferngren (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2002). These works indicate, generally speaking, how both non-believers and many Christians have been mistaken in the history of the philosophy of science and biblical interpretation. The discussions scholars are having about religion are far deeper than those conversations one may have had with their parents as a teenager, and it is worth exploring those academic discussions.
Thirdly, among the reasons why people have doubted the historical reliability of the Gospels perhaps the most popular objection is the number of differences between the Gospels themselves when they report the same story. Some of these are simply raised, such as the number of angels at the tomb, and yet simply answered: Just because I say there were 2 people at an event does not mean there were not 3 or more people at the event. However, there are more complex and difficult differences between the Gospel accounts. An example of this can be seen when comparing the story of Jesus healing a paralytic in Mark 2:4 and Luke 5:19. In Mark’s Gospel, the friends of the paralytic man dig through “a typical Galilean roof of mud and branches,”[4] but in Luke’s version of the story, the friends removed the κεράμων, a tiled roof. How could Luke, well-known for his historical prowess, seemingly get such a detail about the roofs in Capernaum wrong? Keener holds that Luke took justifiable liberties in “adapting the image to be more relevant for a northern Aegean audience.”[5] If we were to recognize that ancient authors were allowed a certain extent of literary liberty, the concern over historical inaccuracies due to differences decreases. Luke likely knew that the roof of a Capernaum home was made of wood and thatch, but adapted the story to be more convenient for his audience to understand it. This was no party foul in classical antiquity, and in some cases today we do the same sort of thing. Sometimes adapting details of a story efficiently communicates the point of the historical event, as when one might say, “Kroger” (an American grocery store) instead of “Morrisons” (a UK grocery store). Using the latter in front of an American audience might cause for confusion or clarifying the referent would interrupt the story, so adaptation is preferred. Luke presents a translation of an event in one culture to another culture, and for this he should not be pedantically held to a standard he did not intend to write toward. Ehrman seems to embrace this approach when he wrote,
Just as scribes modified the words of the tradition, by sometimes putting these words ‘in other words,’ so too had the authors of the New Testament itself, telling their stories, giving their instructions, and recording their recollections by using their own words (not just the words they had heard), words that they came up with to pass along their message in ways that seemed most appropriate for the audience and the time and place for which they were writing.[6]
This understanding, that the Gospel authors had an acceptable use of literary license, helps to understand why there are as many differences in the Gospels as there are and it lends itself to the conclusion that these authors did not collude with each other.
So what should we make of the Temple cleansing(s)? What for the Synoptic authors is a climactic event in the Jewish leaders’ plot to have Jesus arrested and killed is for John the first public confrontation between Jesus and the Jewish leaders, which includes a foretelling of his physical resurrection (a note observed by the author, himself, in John 2:22). John should not be evaluated as if he were writing a rigid history, like a chronicler, because he was not trying to write a chronicle of the actions, miracles, and teachings of Jesus.
The world of Christian apologetics is, indeed, far from the concept many have of the type of Christian who interprets the Bible in a rigid, decontextualized manner (i.e., shallow theological beliefs about evil and suffering, science & religion, and Gospel differences). The landscape of this field continues to grow and reclaim countryside it once held, but which was lost over unfortunate, variegated factors. The case for Christian belief is intellectually stronger than what many people have experienced.
[1] Bart Ehrman, “Modern Evangelical Christian Apologetics,” The Bart Ehrman Blog, October 20, 2019, https://ehrmanblog.org/modern-evangelical-christian-apologetics/ , emphasis mine.
[2] J. L. Mackie, The Miracle of Theism, (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1982), pg 154.
[3] William L. Rowe, “The Problem of Evil and Some Varieties of Atheism,” in The Problem of Evil, (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1990), pg 126, footnote 1.
[4] Craig Keener, Christobiography: Memory, History, and the Reliability of the Gospels, (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2019), pg 123, cf. footnote 15.
[5] Keener, Christobiography, 123.
[6] Bart Ehrman, Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why (New York: Harper Collins, 2005), pg 212, emphasis his.
Luke says nothing about removing the roof in his version, just that they lowered the man down through it. He probably had in mind the Roman tiled atrium with a gap in the roof and this was probably the original version.
The word Mark uses for roof “stegen” Luke uses later in the story of the centurion. So its unlikely he had a problem with it.
Rather Mark has adapted the story of Luke’s Roman atrium to better fit the village houses of Capernaum.
This is all very interesting, and thanks for letting us know about the state of modern apologetics. It seems wise and even necessary, to me, to concede that sometimes the authors of Biblical text said things in ways that made their point best, rather than trying to be legalistically true and defensible in every detail. Maybe some details aren’t technically accurate, but make spiritual points instead.
But once you’ve conceded that, how do you guard against more comprehensive doubts. Could the details of the Transfiguration simply be figures of speech, meant to adequately portray Jesus’s majesty by describing details that never physically happened? When the synoptics describe details of Jesus’s temptation (which they could not have directly witnessed), could they be making all the details up to more fully make the point that Jesus was truly tempted in the desert? Taken to an extreme, if one were to claim that Jesus was only resurrected in the hearts of his believers, but that the gospel accounts merely use a literary device to portray a spiritual reality using physical metaphor, how can even that be off the table?
The answer I always got growing up was “it’s a mystery” whenever these questions came up.
When I got older, I was told it’s a question of faith.
Today, I’m not sure what to think. I agree it’s a slippery slope and a slope I’ve slipped on many times.
Responding to the oral blog on the nativity of John the Baptist.
Who do you say that I am? Some say Elijah. Some say John the Baptist return. I read a biography of Jesus by a Hindu spiritual teacher. Ashley what are the Beatles favorite spiritual teachers! This biography claimed that these verses proved that Jesus believed in reincarnation. This biography made an argument from scripture that Elijah and Elisha were the same people reincarnated. Elijah became John the Baptist. Elisha came back as Jesus. Elisha had received the cloak meaning he would have a double power Oh Elijah’s power. That’s why Jesus could raise the dead etc. Have you heard these arguments before? Any thoughts on these arguments?
Gilbert plumbing
Responding to the oral blog on the nativity of John the Baptist.
Who do you say that I am? Some say Elijah. Some say John the Baptist return. I read a biography of Jesus by a Hindu spiritual teacher. Ashley what are the Beatles favorite spiritual teachers! This biography claimed that these verses proved that Jesus believed in reincarnation. This biography made an argument from scripture that Elijah and Elisha were the same people reincarnated. Elijah became John the Baptist. Elisha came back as Jesus. Elisha had received the cloak meaning he would have a double power Oh Elijah’s power. That’s why Jesus could raise the dead etc. Have you heard these arguments before? Any thoughts on these arguments?
Gilbert plumbing
“Here comes the Sun”
Hi Kurt Jaros, Wow! I see you are a Christian apologist who passes muster with Bart Ehrman, the Evangelical Philosophical Society, and the Evangelical Theological Society. I cannot sign the statement of faith for the Evangelical Philosophical Society while keeping a straight face. Nonetheless, I look forward to reading your work 🙂 Best, James
Thanks, Jim!
But what’s the point? By framing Christianity as a matter of logical arguments and proofs aren’t you abandoning the only real power that religion possesses, the ability to provide its adherents with an experience of the divine? When you convince someone that the resurrection was a fact of history like the invasion of Normandy or the assassination of Julius Caesar what have you really accomplished?
These kind of discussions always strike me as abstract, internal philosophical arguments with little bearing on reality. Philosophers seem to consider internal consistency more important than calibration with natural history or human history. The below are just thumbnail responses.
First, regarding the problem of evil.
As an anthropologist, I just see the actuality that s*it happens. The human animal is governed by nature and the functioning of our brain. As humans settled into larger communities without the ameliorating surveillance of kin and close neighbors, people began to act out due to psychological and economic instabilities.
Second, discussions about the nature and relationship of science and religion
Religion alone cannot explain nature without divine intervention. Science (its methodology) does not need religion to keep explaining to us what is going on in nature, with our own brains? No theistic principle needed. That is sort of the point of science.
Thirdly, among the reasons why people have doubted the historical reliability of the Gospels . . .
Whether there is actual history embedded in the various Gospels doesn’t make the miracle stories or the resurrection stories more believable. Gleaning history from old stories is always worthwhile.
Regarding, “among the reasons why people have doubted the historical reliability of the Gospels perhaps the most popular objection is the number of differences between the Gospels themselves when they report the same story”, I don’t think that’s the most popular objection. Rather, people doubt the historical reliability of the Gospels because they contain miraculous events, including multiple resurrections of the dead, casting demons into pigs, two versions of a virgin birth, walking on water, and so on. We only heard about these things in Sunday school, not in regular school, and we didn’t see evidence for these things in our science and history books. But we do see miraculous stories in other ancient non-Christian texts, and we don’t believe that they happened either, so why make an exception for Christian texts?
The only reasons I can think of are tradition and upbringing, on the one hand, or personal revelation, on the other. It’s not in the data.
Thank you Kurt;
There was a link earlier on this blog a few weeks ago to a video of fascinating session on contradictions in the Gospels; was this the same event?
I could not help noticing though, that the selected panel consisted exclusively of middle-class, mansplaining manspreaders. I wonder whether this might be a continuing characteristic of Christian Apologetics, even in its newer, more open and accessible format?
Hi Tom,
I cannot speak to the net value of the respective speakers at that event, but I can say that they were some of the most well recognized defenders of their respective positions in the field of apologetics. If that is a detriment, let it be upon the academic community. The process for speaker selection for my conference has far more to do with one’s CV than with their appearance.
My sense is that most philosophers do not accept Plantinga’s free will defense to the problem of evil is successful. Prof. Richard Gale’s detailed critique has never been successfully answered, and the entire argument assumes libertarian free will, which most philosophers find incoherent.
Thank you Kurt for this information
The evolution of arguments/defenses for both the apologists and skeptics is slowly but surely getting more civil and more deeply and carefully researched. As a result, a larger, more peaceful intellectual middle-ground is being forged for those who are still on their personal paths to truth.
Having defensible positions on both sides of the big God questions – with the wriggle room to say “there is no way to know for sure, but…” allows for individuals to think and learn is a less hostile environment instead of a “You must accept [opinion X] or you “[are hopelessly stupid | will go to hell]” type of learning environment. Some of your examples are good, but there are others and I think you likely have your own set of preferences to certain apologist defenses. The shift away from ultra-literalism and science-only arguments must continue. I also hope to see more debates with open-minded audiences. I believe that middle ground is much bigger than we think once people get enough information and time to process it.
I grew up with the HB, and always find this debate surprising. Since I learned the Gospels existed, I was jealous that Christians knew humans wrote the NT. Their Scriptures hadn’t been engraved in stone tablets by the finger of God. I was also amazed that the Gospels were written so close to the life of Jesus, not thousands of years before. But then, historicity was irrelevant. By the time the Documentary Hypothesis arrived, there was no shock or discomfort.
It seems that Gospel writers were not governed by Western Aristotelian logic and the Gospels can be seen as Greco-Roman biographies. It also seems that the goal of studying Scriptures was to discuss, probe, argue, debate, compare, propose, spend the time. The more questions,the more fertile the study. But what I truly wonder is WHAT IF orthodoxy had not chosen the synoptics ( were these inevitable?)and allowed others that were finally not included? Would the orthodox faithful leaders had chosen Gospels containing faith-killing contradictions? Or, what if we had not be made aware of contradictions? This seems akin to Paul complaining that he is made to covet because the Torah mentions it and forbids it.
Kurt,
Thanks for engaging with those of us on Bart’s blog. What is the evangelical community doing to engage with non-believers on the issue of supernatural events, which I think may be a much larger issue than any of the three issues you brought up? Specifically, why does your community rely so heavily on testimonial evidence of past supernatural events instead of scientifically testing, for example, the efficacy of prayer (like here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16569567/)? You might even be able to do it fairly cheaply by testing Craig Keener’s claim that “the stopping of storms after prayer is not uncommon” (Miracles, pg. 737). The results could be a gamechanger for half the planet. Why does your community stay mired in apologetic arguments when the scientific method of requiring a prediction is clearly available to test your intuitions?
The Kroger/Morrisons analogy is a poor one.
In biblical poetry or parables, it would make sense that under this “Gist-truth” inerrancy model that God could inspire & approve of changing details to appeal to the intended audience whilst not really lying.
However, in biblical verses meant to be historical or biographical, changing small details about factual events through “inspiration” can’t avoid implicating God as approving of “white lies.”
If I make an American movie named “Love in Krogers” and make an English version named “Love in Morrisons,” and the screenplay tries to convey truths about human love, not many people would really have a problem with my change of location plot device.
But if I wrote a biography about Dr. Ehrman and in the US books, I claimed he named his dog after Krogers, and the UK version I claimed he named his dog after Morrisons, people would see this negatively for good reasons. Intentional adaptation of something that did not happen in order to avoid confusion about what you want to convey is still making a false claim about the smaller detail.
Allowing small adaptations to make way for the “gist” creates a very blurry boundary of when a lie becomes big.
Hi MB,
“White lies”
Why think that? You don’t think divine inspiration allows for accommodation language for one’s audience? Moreover, why should we require a strict, rigid chronicle-like account of the life of Jesus, instead of allowing the authors to tell the (truthful) story as they saw fit?
Movie vs. biography
I’m not so sure biography is as rigid as you make it out to be. I’d wager there are many, many biographies of Martin Luther King, Jr. which specifically leaves out details of his drinking and sex life with women outside of his marriage. Or consider other works of history, such as Stephen Ambrose’s Undaunted Courage, which goes back and forth (like a time jump) between events happening with Jefferson and Lewis & Clark.
I am not opposed to divine inspiration allowing for accommodation language for intended audience, or creative liberty. However, if one allows for changing roofing types to help audiences, then that one could seemingly argue that John can paint Jesus as the Passover lamb thru changing the day of crucifixion. Specifically, what keeps a “pro-accommodation” scholar from distinguishing between big and small creative liberties? Where is the cutoff line?
I’m not trying to argue whether John changed the crucifixion day. I just want to know your thoughts on where does one pass the point of creative license and go into the realm of falsifying history.
Re: MLK biogs – a biog that aims to recount MLK’s life through the lens of the civil rights movement would be let off the hook for omitting sex life or drinking habits; but a biog that aims to elevate MLK as some sort of perfect standard of piety or morality would cause some head scratching if sex life/drinking was omitted. Note, I have heard allegations of MLK sex life/drinking but I don’t know if they are true or not; I am just using your analogy to further my point.
I think there are plenty of “conflicts between science and religion” that this sort of argument doesn’t even touch. Take all of the miracles: multiplying loaves and fishes, walking on water, turning water into wine. What is the chemical theory that explains that? Can ophthalmologists cure blindness by rubbing mud into the patient’s eyes and reciting a spell? Can spells bring dead people back to life? (And in the Christian texts, these people, including Jesus himself, were not really in comas, and recovered from them.)
I suppose one could resort to the age-old view that natural laws are simply suspended in certain situations. However, as far as I am concerned, that is just not science.
So, if I’ve read this post correctly, what Kurt is saying is that certain Apologists have caught up with the rest of the world, at least in part ? Open the kimono just enough to let in a little history, a little nuance, a little interpretation, a little science, maybe even a little archeology, but not enough to shake your beliefs ? It’s certainly better than the fundy alternative, that’s for sure.
Thanks for your comment, John Rylands. I agree with the second part of your comment, but to the first I would say that apologists are recovering and rediscovering old positions that Christian leaders used to hold (at least as it pertains to science & religion, and understanding the Gospels).
Hi Kurt and thanks for sharing your views. Just like Bart was the lone brave soldier at that 2019 Chicago conference,you are the brave one to post on Bart’s territory. I commend the both of you. The example of Mark and Luke you cite, I could certainly agree in your describing what took place. The gist, both authors stated that they went through the roof to get to the sick man. The small detail does not phase me. Then when I look at the genealogies of Matthew and Luke,umm,I wonder? First, when it gets to David, it start to change, and the names are different(for the most part),which loses me. But what I would ask you is this,1) How was Luke able to go back to Adam,some four? thousand years earlier and get those records at time when people didn’t keep them and 2) In Matthew,didn’t God punish Jeconiah that none of his descendants would sit on the throne of David or rule in Judah ? Jeremiah 22:30. That would disqualify jesus as the messiah from the tribe of Judah as a biological descendant?
Hi Veritas, thanks for your questions.
1. I think they did keep a record of their ancestors (consider all the genealogies we find in the Old Testament!).
2. One model, among a few, for explaining the difference between Matthew and Luke’s genealogies is that Matthew provides a royal lineage and Luke’s is biological. This would, in the narrow sense, make sense of your specific inquiry. Matthew is simply listing the Davidic kings. Does it solve all the concerns? Probably not.
The “need” of evangelical apologetics, is driven by a religion hinging on a “Faith” in writings of 2000 years ago that in “literality” conflict with each other. Early Church apologist were not in such a predicament and instead they gave defense to the life Christians were “Living”. A living Faith rather than Faith in ancient written testaments (The Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus). When one does not “hinge” their faith upon such 2000 year old conflicted writings there is no need for such apologetics of the Bible and all it’s literal conflictions.
I just laugh and shake my head listening to, or reading such evangelical apologetics. It’s all theories, dogma or just plain nonsense. Truth is that the “text” says what the text says and everything else is purely “speculation”. Song writers laugh and are amazed at how many interpretations of what their songs meant when all they were doing was telling a story.
If ones “faith” is hinged on loving and serving others, being a becon of light for others, being of value to others without end (Romans 2:7) which is the “Story” the Gospels tell, then the literal conflictions of the Bible need no defense.
Indeed! Religion is a lot more than a set of rigid beliefs. More importantly, religion is a way of life.
Hi Kurt, nice piece.
So given what you say about Luke and John’s writings, would it be more accurate to describe the gospels as works of theology rather than historiography, and then we can all move away from fretting about differences and contradictions?
Hi Z,
No, I don’t think I would go that far, but I do think that progress can be made on “fretting about differences and contradictions.”
Thanks for responding. Sorry, my name is John, The system knows this but insists on putting my userid up here.
How is John not a book of theology. Right from the start where we are told about how he is God and his relationship with the Father, which is then confirmed in every chapter throughout the rest of the book.
BTW I am using Theology here to mean ,the study of the nature of God, religious truth and his relation to the world.
How is it a historiography on that basis?
Hi John, I would say that the fourth Gospel is a book of theology and historical biography. Even as you say, “religious truth and his relation to the world” means there is some activity/referent to the world back in that first century. That makes it a historical claim. So I do not see why the two ought to be perceived as mutually exclusive concepts.
That is not the point.
Having some history in there doesn’t make it a historical work. There is much detail about places and locations in Acts, that doesn’t mean it is a book on geography.
A biography of Churchill will have historical detail about The Second World War, and a history of the Second World War may well have biographical information about Churchill. They are not mutually exclusive.
The question is, what purpose was the author serving when he wrote it. Surely that cannot be in doubt for John or any of the Gospels, can it?
Thanks for responding. Sorry, my name is John, The system knows this but insists on putting my userid up here.
How is John not a book of theology. Right from the start where we are told about how he is God and his relationship with the Father, which is then confirmed in every chapter throughout the rest of the book.
BTW I am using Theology here to mean ,the study of the nature of God, religious truth and his relation to the world.
How is it a historiography on that basis?
Prof Ehrman I have always been impressed with your arguments on the problem of evil and the criticisms raised here do not suggest to me that I need to study them further! I find the most significant ‘evil’ to be set against the goodness of God the pain a suffering experienced by non-humans who in Christian belief are not immortal and cannot be recompensed in any way and are also unable to tell right from wrong and therefore not in any way involved through an exercise of ‘free will’. That, and the imposition of pain and suffering on individuals including babies as a result of sins of their ancestors.
I agree with the overall premise of this article. Moreover, I believe the Bible is a fallible, human book with divine insights. I am still a Christian (non-exclusivist), but I see it as a true *faith* religion.
I recently wrote a book called “Blinded by the Bible” where I discuss such matters (including the many forms of toxic Christianity). I also discuss “adaptational theology” and argue that there are manifestations of Christianity that can be beneficial for the individual and others. I summarize my hermeneutic in the book as follows:
“The objective of Christianity is not for Christians to try and live by all the ancient cultural assumptions and worldviews found in the Bible, nor is it to be governed by every situational restriction and mandate given in scripture. Instead, the goal of Christianity is for Christians to imitate the love ethic of Jesus of treating our neighbors as ourselves and doing them no harm in our current culture and circumstances while bearing the fruit of the Spirit. This has always been the task of Christ-followers and will always be.”
Christianity can only be accepted on the basis of faith.
You know what hasn’t changed about Christian apologetics? Its cherry-picking argumentation. Take, for example, the author’s quote from J L Mackie’s _The Miracle of Theism._ Mackie makes the quoted statement in his section on theists’ attempts to address the problem of evil (in this case, the argument that the existence of evil somehow contributes to a greater good). Mackie does state that this particular defense is formally possible — yet his very next sentence says, “But whether this offers a real solution of the problem is another question.” Mackie then proceeds to show why this apologetic argument wholly fails to solve the problem of evil. Is Jaros just hoping we don’t read that part?
Epikouros,
Perhaps you missed this sentence in the post: “To be sure, some concerns pertaining to evil and suffering remain (e.g. the evidential problem of evil), but those are more modest and not as hard-hitting against Christian theism as the logical problem of evil.” So no cherry-picking, here. I specifically picked the narrow point to demonstrate how the conversation has shifted.
Of course I didn’t miss it. But I’m not gullible enough to imagine that the logical problem is the big issue, when in fact it’s the substance of the argument that matters. Mackie clearly recognizes this too, which is why the passage you quoted is merely an aside to his main point. “Some concerns” remain? What remains is the whole problem of evil. Theists have just managed to state one particular defense in a form that doesn’t violate logic. They’ve done nothing to address the underlying problem of evil. As Mackie makes quite clear.
The logical problem has been stronger than you give credit. David Hume and your namesake (Epikouros) both presented the issue as a logical contradiction between the existence of evil and the existence of God. So, on that issue, the contemporary discussion as progressed forward and it has helped to refine both the objections against theism (e.g. evidential problem of evil, problem of divine hiddenness, etc.) and the defensive positions of theism (various theodicies, “skeptical theism,” etc.).
So theists finally managed to come up with an answer to David Hume (died 1776) and Epikouros (died ca 270 BCE), mostly by redefining concepts like omnipotence and omnibenevolence beyond what many of us would recognize. That took some work, I’m sure. But I guess it beats talking about 225,000 people being killed by a tsunami or 1.5 million children being murdered during the Holocaust.
“John should not be evaluated as if he were writing a rigid history”
Thanks Kurt. Us muslims will like this greatly and be applying it to the deification verses in John the moment you tell us this. I can’t wait to share the good news!!!
Regarding the issue of canonical gospel differences, Jaros writes, “it lends itself to the conclusion that these authors did not collude with each other.” Piece of advice for Jaros’s benefit: this is the wrong thing entirely to say. For a solid decade or more I firmly believed that the 4 canonical gospels were completely independent sources for Jesus written by the traditionally-accepted authors. My view was that each of these eyewitness authors wrote basically the same thing about Jesus’s life independently, so any “historian” who has serious doubts about the life of Jesus is a radical and extreme skeptic.
Then I discovered the Synoptic Problem. It is hard to miss in those books that organize the gospels into side-by-side parallels. The gospel harmony I read was written by a Synoptic Problem denier who gave very trash arguments to show there is no Synoptic Problem. The admission of a Synoptic Problem itself also poses issues for accepting the traditional authorship of Mark and certainly Matthew.
Finding out about the Synoptic Problem was personally devastating for me, and the above quote from Jaros is the exact kind of statement that reinforced my view of completely independent gospels.
Did John, a disciple of Jesus, really get his chronology wrong?
Two presuppositions that can be true or false. (Most likely false): John, the disciple of Jesus is the author of the Gospel of John
Second, if so, being a disciple of Jesus does not guarantee that his chronologies are correct.
“Plantinga’s proposed solution included positing the existence of free will to demonstrate compatibility between the existence of God and the existence of evil.”
Plantinga is wrong. For several reasons. There is suffering and evil in the world without the free will of humans being required.
Second, an almighty God can respect the free will of the wicked and prevent his evil decisions and actions from causing the intended harm. What prevents God from acting once a criminal has fully exercised his free will to cause evil (by pulling the trigger of a gun), to jam the gun or miraculously deflect the bullet?
Third, libertarian human free will is incompatible with the sovereign and unchanging will of God.
So far, Kurt Jaros’s post is very poor and poorly argued.
There is more. But it is tiresome to have to put black on white the fallacies of the apologists. They’re all the same
Actually, Plantinga does try to address “suffering and evil in the world without the free will of humans being required”. He says that such suffering (natural disasters, the pain and suffering of evolution, etc.) may be caused by other “creatures”:
“ Indeed, some of these other creatures might be vastly more powerful than human beings, and some of them—Satan and his minions, for example—may have been permitted to play a role in the evolution of life on earth, steering it in the direction of predation, waste and pain. (Some may snort with disdain at this suggestion; it is none the worse for that.)” Alvin Plantinga
I find myself among those who “snort with disdain”. And while the idea may be “none the worse” for my snorts, it is quite the worst for it’s failure to understand even the basics of evolution (and natural disasters for that matter). One could certainly propose supernatural explanations for scientific phenomena for which we already have perfectly natural evidence and explanation; but it makes about as much sense as returning to other ancient superstitions: lightning bolts thrown by Zeus, Apollo charioting the sun, angels moving the heavenly spheres, etc.
Hi Kurt. Have you come across Christian apologists from the Eastern Orthodox tradition?
Not really, albeit the late Kallistos Ware was an effective communicator of his theological tradition. In the broad sense, he was an apologist (i.e., someone who offers an answer/explanation for what they believe).
Okay thanks
Plantinga‘s argument, at best, addresses a weakness with the traditional formulation of the God and “Evil” problem. There remain serious flaws with the idea of a loving God and the reality of severe, undeserved suffering. Plantinga’s argument undermines the Christian teaching that God intervenes in response to prayer. How can Christians ever be assured that God will protect them when they are confronted by human evil or overwhelming pain? I suppose Jesus’ assurance that his followers need not worry about food and clothes because they will be cared for like the birds and flowers of the field, needs to be qualified with “as long as free will is not violated.” What does free will have to do with natural disasters, such as the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami that killed 228,000 people? Does the free will defense apply to the massive suffering experienced by animals, not only today, but also during the millions of years of animal evolution before humans existed? In fact, killing, disease, and excruciating pain are inherent to the “design” of Nature. Even if the abstract “God and Evil” criticism of theism is flawed, the existential problem of God and Suffering is as unsolvable as ever.
It appears that the Christian Apologist have a very vested interest in winning the debate with or against each other on their topics. I did not see any proof that anything in the Bible or science leads to one’s salvation. I also did not see a tally of the individual conversions to Christianity for all of the literary works cited or submitted. My question is:
Is a current/modern day Christian Apologist objective to win souls to Christianity or win intellectual debates?
They objective is to achieve teh former by accomplishing the latter….
Thanks Kurt. I observe that “Christian apologetics” lacks genuine inquiry, which borders on intellectual dishonesty. Scientists probe the frontiers of knew knowledge by constantly “questioning their beliefs.” Every scientific proposal is subjected to a dizzying array of peer review, criticism, and attempts to disprove the proposal. Apologists, unlike scientists, start from the conclusion: it’s God’s word, so we have a defense. Apologists never question their beliefs, so there is no inquiry, no search for truth, only argument and justification of inscrutable beliefs.
Apologists seek evidences in support of conclusions, but never ask “what if I’m wrong? What if this isn’t God’s word?” Rather, apologists/believers fear doubt, and revere faith, and practice dishonesty (not in the “liar” sense, but rather in an “adherent” sense). For me (and many other former believers), I took a single step back from adherence, and the entire edifice of the faith crumbled. Kurt, you make great arguments. Enlightening. A joy to read. Still, I wonder what your superior intellect might yield if you actually questioned mildly instead of defended absolutely. If there is a god out there, he is surely sturdy enough to not get offended.
Kurt cites several authors who claim the conflict between science and religion is false. They are mainly christian apologists who try to minimize the horrible crimes perpetrated by the Church. You don’t need to be a historian to conclude that the Church had the power in Europe during centuries and used it against anyone who stood in her way.
The Galileo case is emblematic. He had to read on his knees, with one hand touching the Bible: “I abjure, curse, and detest aforementioned errors …”. The only reason repeatedly presented for his condemnation: his opinions were “contrary to the Holy Scripture”. He was sent to home arrest for the rest of his life. Lucky Darwin didn’t live at that time.
I was horrified to watch some videos where Ronald Numbers, cited by Kurt, mockingly criticizes Galileo, saying he was treated well by the Vatican and was not tortured. “There may have been some mental stress”, he says. Numbers claim Galileo was punished for his theological, not scientific ideas. Oh, great! Theological reasons utterly justify torturing and killing. If Numbers is right, why did the Pope ban all publications affirming the movement of the Earth around the Sun?