OK, to start off with, I have to admit that my skin is not as thick as I would like it to be. And because of that, I really should not read reviews of my books on Amazon. It is, to say the least, highly aggravating. As on the Internet generally, people can say what they want and there is no mechanism (well, no effective mechanism) for making sure they say things that are true, right, or responsible. So why do I read these things? I suppose in hope (idle hope, most of the time) that the person will have read the book, understood it, and “gotten” the point. It doesn’t always happen. It often doesn’t happen. OK, actually, it usually doesn’t happen.
Here is a sample of the kind of thing I mean. The writer of this review is not simply wrong about things, he is downright scandalous, leveling a charge that he does not substantiate (for a good reason: he is unable to substantiate it, since it is flat-out false). But why does he need to substantiate it? He can just say it and get away with it.
First I’ll give the full comment and then I’ll explain why it is completely and utterly wrong. (For those of you not following my recent posts: this Amazon review is about my new book Jesus Before the Gospels.
His comment:
In the introduction of Ehrman’s book, he makes the claim that the book is a great contribution to the field of biblical studies since “the vast bulk of them [scholars of the New Testament], so far as I can tell—have never explored this research”. Yet he doesn’t mention any work or scholar in the field that has come close to the alleged research of the book (for a reason of course). However, for anyone who has read McIver’s book (… he is referring to Robert K. McIver (2011): Memory, Jesus, and the Synoptic Gospels (Society of Biblical Literature) ), it becomes clear that Ehrman was highly inspired (or rather more) by McIver’s book. Yet Ehrman fails to mention this work in any of the book’s notes or citations. In many parts of the book, especially but not exclusively in the first four chapters, Ehrman’s book even seems as a second-hand exposition of Mclver’s, and as stated before, he’s never cited him. Despite my Admiration to Dr. Ehrman, I think that it’s crucial to give the credit only to the credible author. And think professor Ehrman has done a great disservice to his history by plagiarizing another Author’s work.
OK, so to begin with, is my claim true that the bulk of NT scholars have not explored the research into memory? Yes, I believe it’s absolutely true. Does that fact that this unknown and unnamed reviewer has read a (single) book that deals with a similar theme invalidate the claim? No, of course not. I have NEVER said that there is no NT scholar on the face of the planet who has not looked into memory studies. I’ve said that “the vast bulk” have not. If I had meant that “no one” has I would have said so.
Then is it true that I never mention any biblical scholars who have dealt with the issues related to memory? Does he mean apart from the scholars that I do name, such as Jan Assmann, Kenneth Bailey, Richard Bauckham, James Dunn, Birger Gerhardsson, Werner Kelber, and, well, and others?
OK, then is it true that my book was inspired by Robert McIver’s? I’m sorry, but at this point, I really had to laugh.
I became interested in memory studies because I had heard some papers read at a session of the Society of Biblical Literature meetings a few years ago (papers by Chris Keith and Zeba Crook – both of whom generously read my manuscript, by the way, and made helpful comments on it – and Paul Foster and others). I decided I wanted to learn more about memory. And so I spent two years doing almost nothing in my spare time but reading cognitive psychology (on individual memory), sociology (on collective memory), and anthropology (on oral cultures). I read almost nothing by a NT scholar. I then outlined my book and decided what I wanted to say.
THEN I read the few books out there that deal with similar issues in respect to the New Testament, books by Dale Allison, Richard Bauckham, James Dunn, and a few others (there are not many, as I’ve been saying). Near the very tail end of my research – after the book was fully outlined – I did some mopping up exercises, which involved, among other things, reading McIver. I hadn’t read him before that because I did not see his work cited in other things I had been reading and was not aware that he had made any kind of impact on the field. But then I learned about his book and I was very nervous, thinking that maybe he had already written the book that I wanted to write. So I read it. And I was disappointed. I was not disappointed because he said what I wanted to say but because he had such a different point of view from mine and I didn’t think that he argued for it convincingly. I was expecting great things (in fear that my book would no longer be needed!), but didn’t find them (others may find his book more helpful).
At every point McIver takes a very conservative, evangelical stand on just about every issue connected with the Synoptic Gospels, arguing for their innate reliability based on what memory research says (as anyone knows who actually reads my book, that’s just the opposite view to mine! How is it that I’m supposed to be dependent on his book?!?). Here is what he says, for example, about the validity of eyewitness testimony:
“Taken together, the two case studies … reveal many of the basic characteristics of eyewitness memory. It is generally trustworthy, but the level of accuracy varies from individual to individual… Where an eyewitness is not intentionally lying, there is a general, if not specific, reliability about his or her testimony….” (p. 20).
I have to admit, I was more than a little puzzled when I read that conclusion. The studies of eyewitness testimony point in just the opposite direction; in fact, one of the two studies he is citing argue precisely against this conclusion. I decided that his book was completely unusable for my purposes.
But this anonymous reviewer of my book on Amazon is claiming not only that I took over McIver’s views, but that I plagiarized him. Here is someone who needs to look up the word “plagiarism,” since he obviously does not even know what the word means. It’s a very serious charge, and if someone wants to label me with it, I would very much like him to know what he is actually saying, because it is a scandalous thing to say, not to mention absolutely false and completely offensive.
I will discuss a further point in my next post, whether it is incumbent upon me, when writing for a general audience, to cite all the scholars who support or reject the views that I set out – not in a scholarly book but in a book meant for non-experts.
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It is very irritating indeed!
To start, I have now read about a dozen of your books and have never heard you claim that you are making a “great contribution.” In fact, in your trade books, you say over and over that you are trying to summarize for the lay reader widely accepted scholarly findings. And you do that incredibly well.
Second, how can you possibly be copying McIver when you disagree with him?
I am sorry that some do not fully appreciate your enormous contributions in trade books, textbooks, this blog, your Teaching company lectures, and your youtube debates. I do…. Keep plugging away. You are not thin-skinned, just human…..
Accusing you of this obvious falsehood is a trumpish tactic to unfairly erode your credibility with people who are likely to hear a statement like, “Someone accused him of plagiarism” and then translate that into, “He’s a plagiarist.”
Despicable.
I’m reading your book now and think it’s wonderfully insightful. I am so grateful for your life’s work in this incredibly important field of study.
“Here is someone who needs to look up the word “plagiarism,” since he obviously does not even know what the word means.”
I’ve been seeing this kind of thing more and more lately. Every time it brings to mind the scene in The Princess Bride when Vizzini says, “INCONCEIVABLE!” and Inigo Montoya replies, “You keep using that word, I don’t think you know what it means.” I often say that if I win the Mega Millions I would like to buy a truck load of Dictionary’s to hand out to people.
*dictionaries
Sorry, couldn’t help myself. Though that Princess Bride quote is one of my favorites. 😀
Accusing a writer of plagiarizing is a very serious charge. It is a charge that should not be based on opinion but on factual evidence only. The individual has not offered a evidence.
I’ve flagged the review in question as “not helpful” and your other readers should do the same. For those who wish to offer this feedback, search the three star reviews. Incidentally, it’s interesting that this individual would award you three stars for allegedly plagiarizing someone else’s work. Maybe he or she truly doesn’t understand what the word means.
Dr. Ehrman, I didn’t see that review. Maybe it has been deleted?
Anyway, as they say, haters gonna hate.
The criticism you quoted sounds like it came from a conservative Christian with an ax to grind. I guess we knew they wouldn’t like your book. I’m up to page 60 of your book, and it is interesting, clear, and well explained with good examples. If you weren’t so influential, not as many people would bother to throw mud at you. I’m glad you are influential!
It’s understandable that after putting so much work into a book that you might want to see how it is received.
People that know your work would find this sort of review bizarre. While not having gotten to the new book yet, I
was a bit skeptical that you would make a claim like ” the book is a great contribution to the field of biblical studies”
I can’t help but think the reviewer did not actually read your book, but probably scanned it for things to criticize.
Are you sure that Amazon, if notified, wont do anything about a charge like that?
They won’t let an *author* have any say in teh matter, but other reviewers they will listen to.
WOW
That’s weird. I mean if there’s an accusation of plagiarism, you would think they would want to see if there was anything to it. It’s not as though you’re just saying you don’t like the review.
Hi Bart, I also read the amazon review. The person who wrote the amazon review gave five stars to your “how Jesus became god”. Go figure
Anyway, instead of putting sources and the like in your books how about posting them somewhere on the web so people who would like to view them can.
I am half way through your book and love it! I had to buy a second copy for my wife because we cannot read the one copy of the book at the same time.
It’s understandable that after putting so much work into a book that you might want to see how it is received.
People that know your work would find this sort of review bizarre. While not having gotten to the new book yet, I
was a bit skeptical that you would make a claim like ” the book is a great contribution to the field of biblical studies”
I can’t help but think the reviewer did not actually read your book, but probably scanned it for things to criticize.
Are you sure that Amazon, if notified, wont do anything about a charge like that?
There is a report abuse button out there so I think Amazon would be willing to hear your complaint.
They won’t listen to the author himself if he notifies them, only other people.
If nobody else you used in your book is citing McIver, then you’re off the hook.
My two-volume history of the U.S. manned spaceflight program in the 20th century ran 1453 pages, the last 70 of which were the references. I probably cited about 1/4 of the references I consulted. Accumulating and sorting through that pile of references is one of the reasons the research took me 3 years.
An author is also an editor and has to make judgment calls on what information to include and cite and what to discard.
If this guy is a minor league scholar, there’s no reason to mention his name.
I’d chill out and have a tall one (or two).
I know Dr. Ehrman and we can’t rebuttal on nonsensical comments either. The best I could do was click on ‘was this review helpful’? (NO!)
Because this review basically claims dishonesty (and I’m also upset) I’m wondering Dr. Ehrman if there is a mechanism such as amazon “chat” or others to have such claims addressed? I could search this out.
Actually what I can do is link your blog answer here in the comment section under living42day’s review … with permission.
Sure!
Just curious, why are you posting the blog answer under living42day? Are you talking about the same living42day that’s a member of this blog?
Living42day wrote a review, but I didn’t see the above comment anywhere on Amazon.
I have no idea!
I think there are ways people can complain about irresponsible reviews — but the author of the book cannot complain!
I haven’t given a review on Amazon yet but plan to as soon as I’m finished reading it. Almost there! I think the book is solid and well-researched. I feel that the latter half of the book delves into what readers are really interested in. I do have one particular pet peeve though; there are errors that weren’t caught during the editing process. Words were spelled correctly, but they are the wrong words. One of the scriptural references was wrong, and that’s kind of a biggie. I don’t know how publishing companies handle these sorts of things, but they should really fix it.
I just wrote a positive Amazon review of your book. It is well supported, complements your other works, and makes a fascinating case that Mark’s “memory” of the secretive Christ (secretive about his identity and mission) is much different than John’s “memory” of the outspoken Christ.
I understand your anger and frustration, Bart. No one likes to be accused of plagiarism. Why not write a comment on his review pointing out the differences between your book and McIver’s book, or do you think that would be too self-serving?
Yeah, my post itself was a bit too self-serving!
Indeed a defamatory remark by an amazon reviewer who probably didn’t read your book or totally misunderstood it. Given the originality of your thesis, do you plan to publish in academic journals the core argument?
My original plan was to write a scholarly book on the topic as well, but I’m into research for a different book just now and don’t think it’s gonna happen, at least any time soon.
I’m reminded of a line from Rudyard Kipling’s classic poem “If” –
“If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools…”
Continue to seek the truth, Dr. Ehrman, and please continue to allow us to come along for the ride!
I wish people would think before saying such things. True plagiarism can have devastating consequences. Besides that, falsely accusing you of plagiarism is defamation of character and also has very serious consequences! I mean, what on earth is this person thinking?!?
Oh Bart please don’t let these things get to you. Had it been a well reasoned, properly evidenced, or even just well written criticism, it might have been worth a second thought. But people are always going to dislike your work because it’s threatening to them. Be spurred on by that! There are so many who need to be reached with your research. I’ve read/listened to almost all your books (I’m saving up for your New Testament text book) and I’ve learned SO MUCH in such an enjoyable way. You have a wealth of information to give to the world and you do it so brilliantly. Please don’t let the haters get to you. Never stop writing! Xxx
I never will! Gods willing….
The fastest way to lose your faith in humanity is to read the comment section of any blog. Reviews I imagine are similar. My sympathies to you there indeed.
Prof Ehrman
I travel frequently on my job, both by plane and auto, so for me that means audio books! The narrators of your books are very professional and no complaints but I was wondering, since you seem totally comfortable lecturing and debating, what your thought process is in deciding not to narrate your own books. Just curious.
thanks
I never get asked (though I did one — I think it was the book on Judas) (or maybe it was the Da Vinci Code). It was no fun! I doubt if I’d ever do it again.
You must have not read any review for any of your other books on Amazon because all of the 1 and 2 star reviews are just like this one. It’s pure masochism to read them in my opinion. For those who disagree with your agnostic perspective, on either scholarly or religious grounds, you’re going to get exactly what you got here. Sometimes the negativity is at least clear like with this guy and other times it’s mindless rambling from some bible thumper. Since you think the South is still fighting the Civil War apparently, you’ll probably see some attacks from the ante-bellum sympathizer crowd in the reviews as well.
I am with you 1000% on the claim of plagiarism. It is offensive and degrading and does not belong in the Ehrman camp. I will be writing a response to this writer on Amazon to discredit his claim. I have no problem doing that knowing what an incredible scholar you are. After reading the book, I will write my own review. It will be a great deal more supportive than this.
I think an efficient strategy is to use an all purpose one-liner like “and references cited therein” (for eg; J Dunn, Jesus Remembered, and references cited therein) on every second reference. I think the next move might be to have just one reference; Wikipedia and references cited therein. This way one has a high probability of referencing everyone who has ever lived. (said with a naughty scotch imbibed grin)
Yes, I read that review making accusations of plagiarism and was both confused and angered. It has always been important to me that a scholarly work, even when directed primarily at a general audience, have 1) index 2) ample footnotes and 3) a good bibliography. This reviewer upset me sufficiently to want to review a copy of McIver’s book myself. Owning several of Prof Ehrman’s books plus a few that I read on library loan, I could not conceive of his using a source without proper acknowledgement and especially that he would be guilty of plagiarism!! To my disappointment, the book is outside my budget at this time and I have yet to acquire an interlibrary loan thru my local system. Hence, I am delighted to see Bart Ehrman refuting these claims. I preordered the book a month or so ago, received it the day of release (Mar 1) and have just finished reading it this evening. I realize it takes a perspective that is both foreign and even offensive to some more conservatives readers. I also recently finished Bishop Spong’s latest, “Biblical Literalism – A Gentile Heresy” and find the two together shed much greater understanding of the history and function in the nascent Christian communities as well as their need for proper interpretation in our own “social memory” as 21st century Christian are students of that movement. Many thanks to Prof Ehrman for his many contributions to the deepening of my own understanding. — Richard W Fitch
Try not to take it too hard. I tend to avoid reviews which are overly fawning or overly critical anyway. I usually go straight for the reviews with three stars. Wait and see what the majority of the reviews have to say. I’m betting you’ll come out fine.
Bart: I’ve read half of your book so far and I have to say I love it. I really like this novel, scientific approach to the topic. There’s a lot to be learned from your insights. And it’s only normal that the haters (Evangelicals) are going to hate on things that threaten their delusion …
As an attorney I can attest that the false claim of plagiarism is actionable. Whether it is worth your while to get involved further, legally or otherwise, with this boob, is another matter, and I think you have better things to do. In an earlier post, I commented on the often dubious quality of so-called “eye-witness” testimony, and the erratic and often unreliable quality of this form of evidence has been recognized more and more in legal literature and case law. In the past, I have been able to persuade Amazon to remove outrageous comments about a book of mine, and perhaps an inquiry from you or your publisher would accomplish this result.
I read this “review” the same day it appeared on Amazon, and promptly reported it as not merely inappropriate, but downright libelous. I must say that I’m no longer surprised to read such unfounded attacks on your character, especially from those who profess to be followers of the teachings of Jesus. The Great Courses site is an excellent example, where one-star reviews of your courses often appear literally within hours of a course being made available. Sadly, most of these bogus reviews are merely thinly veiled ad hominem attacks written by people who have not even purchased the course in question. Which leads me to a question: Professor Ehrman, did you anticipate such vitriolic attacks on your character from fundamentalists when you set out on your publishing career years ago?
Ah, good quesiton. Think I’ll add it to my mailbag list of questions to answer.
I agree with your initial comment: your skin is not as thick as it probably needs to be in these kinds of situations.
Let’s look at your remark in the Introduction about “the vast bulk” of NT scholars who “have never explored this research.” Of course, you’re right, but the way you’ve said it sounds a bit smug. Your intention is clear: you’re saying, in effect, “Here’s why there’s a need for a book like this, especially for a general audience.” But it sounds a bit like you’re patting yourself on the back (and perhaps even chiding your peers).
By the way, I confess that I’m reading what you’ve said in the Introduction in light of what your publisher says in the blurb on the dust jacket: “Now for the first time…Bart D. Ehrman…surveys research….” Really? Parse that sentence carefully, and think about how it could be interpreted. Does your book really represent “the first time” that memory research from the three disciplines noted has been applied to the reliability of the gospels? Or does your book really represent “the first time” that such research has been made accessible to general readers? I think the answer to both questions would be, “No.” There’s no doubt that few have done what you’re doing in this book, especially for a more general audience. But is your book “the first time” it’s been done? Your friend Dale Allison has done it for a scholarly audience in Constructing Jesus, and Dominic Crossan has done it for a more general audience in The Birth of Christianity.
Moving on to your list of specifically acknowledged predecessors: Assmann, Bailey, Bauckham, Dunn, Gerhardsson, Kelber, etc. (good job alphabetizing!). I suspect what the reviewer was trying to suggest is that you’ve limited such references to writers whose efforts fall short of what you (and others) are saying—but you fail to identify any of the others that have anticipated your approach. You could have mentioned the relevant works by Dale Allison or Anthony Le Donne, just to name two that I’m aware of. Remember that some of your readers would like to do more reading on a subject that you address and don’t know where or how to find such resources. And, by the way, that might include a footnote about the problems with McIver’s book.
Finally, as to the reviewer’s charge of plagiarism, that is totally ludicrous. But I’m surprised that you let it bother you. You mentioned in an earlier post that you’ve changed your eating habits in recent months. Maybe you could ask your physician about what foods might help you to thicken your skin without thickening your waistline!
I obviously didn’t write the publisher’s blurb on teh cover, but I think what they’re saying is that this is “the first time” that I myself have explored this research. At least that’s how I would take it, since obviously I’m not the first one to do it….
I think you’re a bit harsh. He’s still a human being.
Thanks for quoting Mclver’s book. I’m not going to waste my time reading that one.
Most internet reviews, like that of Amazon, are a waste of time anyway. Too many of these reviews are from people with agendas and/or trying to proseletize and many are idiots to start with.
Thanks again for all that you do.
I understand your frustration, but that’s the nature of the internet. I enjoy watching your lectures and debates on YouTube, but some of the comments are absolutely inane. I don’t even read them anymore. You don’t need to defend yourself to your true followers. Still reading the new book (one of my Christmas gifts was an Amazon gift certificate). From what I’ve read so far, I’m sure my review will be a good one.
Dr. Ehrman, what do you think about Nick Peters’ review of your new book, available here: http://deeperwaters.ddns.net/?p=9181? It seems to be the most thorough “takedown” attempt out there at the moment.
haven’t read it, I’m sorry to say. And don’t know who he is!
Thanks for linking to it. 🙂
I checked the amazon listing but I don’t see that review. Did it get taken down? Hopefully yes!
I hope so too!
My son is often called as an expert witness in criminal trials and has stated that eyewitnesses testimony is notoriously unreliable. It’s a widely known fact: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/
I just wanted to say that having worked with a popular plumbing and hvac company for years doing their website and social media, we have experienced (usually groundless) negative reviews since the first days of online reviews. How we deal with it:
1. get more reviews – this is key. Bury the negatives in a mound of positives
2. politely respond if you choose – politeness is the key
3. send a message to the company why the review is illegal (slanderous, factually inaccurate, etc.). It make take awhile, but companies do eventually respond and sometiems remove the review in question
4. ignore – know that having many reviews is in the end good. It makes people more curious and means your book is creating buzz, thus more likely people will buy
5. learn what you can from the negative reviews – if there’s something you agree with that you can improve, then reviews like these can help you be a better plumber or writer.
6. understand that bad reviews usually come from a state of high emotion. People are pissed off that their water heater install seemed to leak gas, or their faucet still leaks! Or that the price was too high. In your case, people are pissed off that anyone would dare question their comfort zone of belief, and are charged up to defeat it. You’re a pro, they usually are not. But it’s best not to let them drag you down into the mire. Refer back to point #4 and ignore.