(23 votes, average: 4.87 out of 5)
Loading...In my previous post I talked about the significance of the Dead Sea Scrolls for understanding Jesus and the milieu out of which earliest Christianity grew. My basic point is that if Jesus was a Jew, then to understand him, you have to understand Jews in his world. And the Dead Sea Scrolls provide us valuable information to that end.
I am not saying that the Dead Sea Scrolls are representative of what all or even most Jews thought at the time. They clearly are not. If the “Essene hypothesis” is right (that is, that the Scrolls were produced by members of a Jewish sect known as the Essenes) – and it is the view held by the vast majority of the experts (I am *not* an expert on the Scrolls) – then the Scrolls were produced by a Jewish sect that had very distinctive views of its own that were not, in many respects, shared by outsiders. In particular, this was a group of Jews who insisted that the coming apocalyptic judgment, soon to arrive, would bring destruction not only to the hated Romans and the “obvious” enemies of God, but to many Jews as well, including the priests who were in charge of the Temple cult in Jerusalem.
This was not an unprecedented claim, but it was not a wildly popular one either (especially among the priests in charge!). In terms of not being unprecedented: even a canonical prophet like Jeremiah could rail against the Temple and the sacrifices performed there, predicting that the Temple would be destroyed by God (e.g. Jeremiah 7). So there was nothing “un-Jewish” about castigating the Temple. But it was not widely done, because the Temple was the very center of religious life for most Jews. God himself had ordered its construction and ordained the sacrifices that were to take place there. And the Hebrew Scriptures see the Temple as the very center and focus of Jewish worship – not an incidental feature in the Jewish religion, but its heart and soul. Opposing it was serious business. And not just for religious reasons. The Temple was also the center of social, political, and economic life in Jerusalem, the capital city of Judea. Opposing it meant opposing almost everything the Jewish government and people embraced.
In order to express their opposition to the Temple and Jerusalem, the Essenes at Qumran, where the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, removed …
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Fascinating…… great read after a 10 mile run!
Absolutely fascinating
Yes, this is a great post as I have a keen interest in the Dead Sea Scrolls and I do like the point made about the 2 degrees of separation between Jesus and the Pharisees/Essenes over ritual purity concerns. My only comment is that the Essenes must have been on Jesus’ radar (excuse the anachronism) if Pliny the Elder and Josephus had heard of them so why aren’t they mentioned in the New Testament? Someone once told me that they could have been the “Scribes” but I don’t think that can be right as my understanding is that the scribes were a sort of ‘go to’ authority on the Jewish law.
I’m not sure that the Essenes would have been known to a person who spent nearly his entire life in a remote rural village in Galilee…. But no, they aren’t the scribes. They appear not to have been on the radar screens of the Gospel writers either (who were not from Israel).
I would almost certainly say the evangelists didn’t know about the Qumran community. Some Essenes did live in the cities, but I think any contact between them and the Jesus Movement also seems doubtful; neither side mentions the other. There are coincidental overlaps, such as in their attitude toward sex, but I think that comes perhaps from John the Baptist (see my note below) and even more from Paul’s exposure to the Stoics.
And who are the “scribes” anyway? There’s no mention of them at this period in Jewish writings that I can think of (which admittedly leaves a lot of open space), but while they were prominent in Ezra’s day, they seem to have faded by the first century. I find it interesting that once Jesus is arrested, they fade from the scene .
Bart, an off topic question. Do the Greek manuscripts that Erasmus prepared to later supply Luther, Tyndale, and others for their translation work still exist? But more specifically, do they all, in Matthew 6:13, omit that distinctive mention of deliverance from “the evil one?” Deliverance from evil reads more smoothly, I think. … Thanks!
Yes, we have most of the manuscripts used in the early printed editions. The difference between “evil” and “the evil one” is not a textual difference; it is two different ways of rendering the same Greek words.
Thanks for your reply. I now see in your textbook “The Bible” this early caution to readers: “and, as anyone knows who has worked extensively in another language, something is always lost in translation.” (p. 24)
Bart’s words here seem to run counter to those elsewhere. For example, he says here that Jesus wasn’t concerned about controversies in the Jewish calendars, but he also says there are conflicting reports in the Gospels over when exactly Jesus was crucified. Timeline discrepancies would imply that the calendar debate was very much alive in the background. Bart also says Jesus wasn’t concerned about impurities, associating with tax collectors and sinners, but these sorts aren’t the only sources of impurity. The money-changers in the Temple might also have been contaminators, and Jesus did more than not associate with them. Jesus also gave a higher, more expanded law than Moses, when he said “love your enemies” and declared heart-felt lust to be as sinful as adulterous acts. That one might have topped even the Essenes. Jesus engaged in several acts of ritual purification. First, when his head and feet were anointed, and then when he washed the feet of his disciples. And then of course he stayed up all night praying and even sweating blood before his crucifixion. People don’t want Jesus to be an Essene. He could have been.
I’m not sure I’m understanding your point. The differences in the Gospels over which day Jesus died is a difference between what the authors of Mark and John say; it’s not a difference that the historical Jesus ever talked about. Jesus never faults or exuses tax collectors and sinners for their ritual impurity. So too the money changers. Jesus is never recorded as going to a mikvah or undertaking other rituals. So I’m not sure where you see that I’m contradicting myself?? I don’t recall ever saying anything different.
“Even more significant, Jesus was not at *all* interested in preserving ritual purity and in removing himself from possible sources of contamination. In fact, just the precise opposite.”
Jesus wasn’t an Essene but argued with them and hence knew their beliefs and interacted with them. His disagreement with 1QRule of the Community in Matthew 5:43 “From the viewpoint of the Qumran community, the sons of light are members of the community and their sympathizers. On entry into membership the candidate swears ‘to love all the sons of light,…and to hate the sons of darkness…'” (1qs 1:9–11) https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/sons-light Paul similarly argues with the Essene teaching of “works of the law” https://www.baslibrary.org/biblical-archaeology-review/20/6/5 The Johannine literature shows Essene influence: e.g. “The designation “sons of light” is one of the links between the Qumran texts and the New Testament; in the latter it is found on the lips of Jesus (Luke 16:8, where it is opposed to the “sons of this age”, John 12:36) and in the Pauline writings (Eph. 5:8; I Thess. 5:5).” https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/sons-light The implication is that statements like Luke 14:33 which agree with Essene communal life are probably literal and in that same context. Would you agree Bart?
No, I don’t. The Essenes are never mentioned in connection with Jesus or vice versa. He may well have taken stands that differed, or agreed, with theirs. But that doesn’t mean he was “arguing with them.”
I see your point. I think the fact that similar language like “sons of light” is used would be more helpful to determine a connection than similar ideas engaged with like “love neighbor and hate your enemy” but still that language may not be unique to Essenes. I shouldn’t suggest that Jesus was arguing or interacting directly with Essenes just that their major ideas were present in his milieu. I didn’t mean to sound like I was making such a bold statement. On a similar note about Paul, Martin G. Abegg Jr says:
‘Although it would be rather too bold to propose that Paul knew of 4QMMT, or that zealous members of the Qumran community had been the perpetrators of his problems in Galatia, it does not seem unreasonable to suggest that Paul consciously reflected the term “works of the law” which was used by the author of 4QMMT and–I would suggest–by Paul’s opponents as recorded in the book of Galatians.
In, addition, it appears highly likely that Paul was reacting to a position that was espoused in 4QMMT by the Qumran covenanters, namely, that a person was reckoned righteous by keeping “works of the law.”‘
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4193122 (page 2)
Talking about caves and bats, in the Babatha cache were found some letters of the time of the Bar-Kokhba revolt. The first letters were written in Aramaic while the last in Greek since no writing Aramaic scribe was found (stated in one of the letters itself). Bar-Kokhba was enough textual to understand the importance of epistolography but was not writing himself.
So it seems Babatha (“wrote by the order of…”)
Since infrared light brought letters out of few empty Dead Sea Scroll fragments and some of the best pieces are not taught to be letters, how likely is that Paul did not know any book?
Sorry — I don’t understand your question.
I started with some premises, related to the time or insofar later time when scrolls were used by the Essenes:
a. Writing letters was due to practical reasons;
b. The sender was not necessarily the writer;
c. There were few Aramaic and Hebrew writers and Greek ones substituted them, by the Bar-Kokhba revolt;
d. Paul wrote letters to correspond with other communities. He was not “creating” a canon.
Then I threw an analogy: like the empty scrolls that under the infrared light revealed some letters (ambiguous use for both meaning) previously unseen and since storing correspondence was not the ideal canon even for Jews, the previous assumptions could shed light on the matter of epistolography.
Finally, I asked if we could conclude that Paul was illiterate (he did not know any book).
No, if Paul was illiterate he would not have been able to write his letters. Some of them he signs himself.
Pardonne-moi, it seems a circular argument. If Jesus was unable to walk on the water how would he do it?
The Papyrus 46, an early document, contains all of Epistle to the Hebrews which has been widely discussed about Pauls’ authorship.
If an early document contains interpolations and forgeries how could someone rely on a “virtual” signature on a nonexistent original?
That’s what I’m saying. You said that Paul wrote letters that show he’s illiterate.
Do you agree with Joel Marcus that JBap was once an Essene, and that he struck out on his own because he became disillusioned with their approach, but not their macro apocalyptic message?
Perhaps Jesus was passed this baton, where he also taught a similiar apocalyptic message as the Essenes/JBap did but also continued JBap’s distinctive message that ethical purity trumped ritual purity? That sharing two coats with those who had none was more important than observing lunar calendars, for instance?
No, I don’t. I think the differences between their missions and visions of what God wanted were too signficant. But it’s a great book anyway.
The pericope of the Cleansing of the Temple–how did it get its name? Whether it is best understood as a ritual purification, ie, a cleansing, or something much more ominous such as a threatening prophetic gesture, a portent predicting its destruction, or something else entirely, is of course endlessly debated among scholars such as yourself. But it has traditionally come to be known as the Cleansing of the Temple even though that word is not used in any of the gospels for this event. Who was the first to interpret this incident or these passages as a mere ‘cleansing’? And why did this interpretation stick?
No doubt you will say you don’t know, but inquiring minds want to know! Who can answer this question? Who has written the best dissertation on this question?
While Ezekiel and contemporary literature (1 & 2 Macc, Pss Solomon, 4QFlor, Temple Scroll) would have us believe that a Messiah would cleanse the Temple of gentile corruption, Mark alone follows Isaiah’s vision of the Temple as a house of prayer for all nations and predicts its destruction.
What say you, Bart Ehrman, was Mark deliberately contradicting contemporary Jewish expectation (and thereby aware of it)? Too many questions for today?
You’re right, I don’t know who first called it that, when, or why. My guess is that its post-Enlightenment, but it could have been Origen for all I know…. I don’t even recall hearing someone raise the question, though it is indeed an important one!
Getting back to our discussion of the Cleansing of the Temple, Many would follow the great EP Sanders in thinking that he has successfully reconstructed an enacted prophetic gesture of the historical Jesus threatening the temple’s destruction, which the later evangelists (especially Mk 11,17) interpreted as a mere cleansing. A perfect example of good Leben-Jesu-Forshung, which nonetheless ignores the fact that the text of Mark already interprets the mislabeled cleansing of the temple as a threat of its destruction. This should be obvious to any reasonably competent Markan exegete who understands Mark’s intercalation of the temple incident ‘sandwiched’ by the story of the cursing of the fig-tree. It would be better to interpret Mk 11,17 in light of the cursing of the fig-tree than to assume that Mk 11,17 supposedly supportis a traditional cleansing interpretation.
Agreed? Or are you not allowed to critique EP Sanders or modern Leben-Jesu-Forshung?
I read Sanders Jesus and Judaism early in graduate school, and was immediately convinced by it. Not so much that Mark completely gets rid of the destruction motif, but that it was a genuine prediction of Jesus and that the action in the temple was an enacted parable. On the fig tree I’m a bit ambivalent, since I generally take it as a symbolic reference to the nation that has been cursed, rather than the temple itself. But it certainly does show a destruction idea, I agree.
היה הוה ויהיה = 72. “Signs of the Fig Tree”. If the fig tree is a symbolic representation of the nation of Israel, would it be safe to say the nation will show the signs the ancient prophets predicted? The fig tree goes dormant during winter, but when spring arrives its enviable it will start to bud, unless the tree is dead or “still sleeping”. 1948 to 2020 is 72 years, but the nation has only had 71 Passovers. This year was quite a PASSOVER! 71st Passover is a wake up call for all nations. 1948 to 1988 is 40 years. According to Hebrew tradition, Father Abraham was 70 years old during the Covenant Between the Parts in 2018 Year from Creation. 2018 Trump officially moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem. 2020 Father Abe would have been 72. Septuagint 72. Being the field of Biblical History, have you noticed any prophecies potentially being fulfilled within our generations. Thank you, sir!
You always come through! Thank you for the enlightenment; ah, so Epiphaneus is in the *4th century,* talking about Nazarenes warned by Jesus to head for the hills.
I still think it’s amazing that one of my favorite authors, Bart Ehrman, doesn’t even lean towards Jesus being Essene-ish?
ok. “He shows no interest at all in the varying Jewish calendars.”
Jesus tra-la-las on the Sabbath.
Essene Sabbath is on a different day than normie Sabbath. Because of the solar calendar they use, it falls on ‘irregular’ days.
Josephus, my favorite butt-kisser to the Romans — may he never be out-equaled — explains the First Jewish War the same way as the:
*Barabbas myth
(And you wrote such a great, succinct explanation on why that myth is coded.)
John 18:40 “Not this man [Jesus], but Barabbas!” Now Barabbas was an insurrectionist…”
Josephus *also* poses it as a choice between rabble-rabble, revolution or enlightened change. So, who does he hold as enlightened? Essenes
What do you think about that synchronicity?
Good case made here:
http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il/orion/programs/Mason00-2.shtml
*Bar-barians: “bar..bar..; the alleged root of the word βάρβαρος, which is an echomimetic or onomatopoeic word.” – Wiki rabble-rabble
*Bar-abba: son of the father
*Bar-rabba: son of the rabbi (Pharisees = Rabbinical Judaism common-folk)
Triple pun score
Also, the Essenes rejected the idea of preaching their religious ideas to the masses, which is exactly what the historical Jesus and the Baptist were doing with *their* –respective– religious ideas (the former with his “Kingdom of God” message, the latter with his call to repent and offer of a baptism of repentance).
Dr. Ehrman,
Thank you for the detailed discussion about the Essenes.
I mean, with all the information, I’m contemplating one other historically reliable information about Jesus. Please share your thoughts on this possibility.
The reason why Essenes didn’t care to mention about Jesus in particular is because he wasn’t a notable personality among Jews at large while he was alive or even several years after he died.
So, the Gospel records claiming that a person/god named Jesus was believed and adored by most Jews during the time he lived was a blown up exaggeration?
New testament is a different animal altogether? Not from Judaism at all?
I’ve always wondered, even when I was a believer that when Jesus was riding on the donkey, the NT claims a great multitude was shouting and praising. But within the next few minutes they shouted in one accord to have Jesus crucified!? Are all Jews religious leaders who wanted Jesus dead or Jews so wicked and heartless? Who were praising Jesus a while ago?! The Romans?! One guy from that church I was attending started praying putting his hand on my head immediately after I asked this question!
Question: Why Christians don’t reason at all??
I’m not sure what your last question means. Christians reason all the time. It’s kind of like asking, Why aren’t Americans ever monogamous?
I find this essentially factual, but with some subtle caveats.
God did not “order the construction” of the temple. God PERMITTED the temple to be built. Just as He permitted divorce and dietary laws.
Jesus didn’t “oppose the Temple.” He opposed what was happening in the Temple. The Temple was symbolic of the inner temple of believer’s bodies. It was prophesied that Jesus would appear in the Temple, but that the Temple would then be taken away (along with Jerusalem and the Jewish nation) because the Jews would not believe in Him.
And all Jews were “apocalypticists”, that is, as long as they believed in books like Daniel and Zechariah.
The lax behavior of Jesus is a real eye-opener. The Essenes and Jesus had similar apocalyptic views but differ on the way of how one should live. Did Jesus adopt this lifestyle behavier from John the Baptist? Because after all the New Testament describes John as a man who ate locusts and wild honey.
I have Geza Vermes’ translation of the Qumran documents that he did for Penguin but can you recommend a good critical scholarly tome about what we can know of the Essenes themselves?
Thanks!
I would suggest looking at the books by James Vanderkam for starters.
Ah, I know Prof Vanderkam’s work on Enoch. I have his translation for Hermeneia with Nickelsburg. I will,inquire further, thanks.
People have compiled lists of people and sects who have produced failed prophecies regarding the “end times”, and it’s a long list. I guess Jesus belongs on that list. It’s no wonder that later Christians had to do a lot of revisionism to salvage their belief system. It began life with at least one failed premise that had to be reinterpreted and revised and blurred over. In the process Christianity gathered a lot more baggage: virgin birth, trinity, immaculate conception, bodily resurrections, and on and on, with variations among sects. Is this the house/houses that Jesus built, or would have built? Or ever intended to build? Seems questionable.
I would say that Jesus too was building on the foundations others had laid.
Will you be writing anything about the connection of the “prophetic Messiah” mentioned in 4Q521 with this tradition being mentioned in Q (Lk.) 7:22 and Mt. 11:2-5? It seems before the Jesus sect there was already an anticipation/expectation of miracles including “raising the dead” connected with a prophetic Messiah figure. This would help explain the origins of the belief in Jesus’ resurrection as well as why he depicted as performing miracles in the gospels.
As you know, it’s a complicated and debated text, but if it *is* referring to a messiah figure, he appears to be more like the return of miracle-workign prophet Elijah (which was one expectation in early Judaism) more than the return of (the warrior) David.
Qumran is near Jerusalem, and the Essenes sound like a rather reclusive group.. Jesus grew up in Galilee to the north. Doesn’t that make it unlikely that Jesus was familiar with the Essenes? Any evidence of specific apocalyptic groups in the north, similar to the Essenes in the south? John the Baptist preached in Judea; any thought that he may have been an Essene?
Yes, I think so. JB *could* have been, but his mission to the outsiders to get them to repent seems to run precisely counter to the mission and goals of the Essenes, who had no time for sinners and wanted nothing more than to avoid them.
Zadok –
John the the Messiah Dunker was a Levite — that’s Zadok line, yeah?
NT seems like fun Cockney rhyming — Pig Legion, Barbarian Barabbas — for stealth.
Matthew 3:15
“…fulfill all righteousness”
aka, “Oh hai, Teacher of Righteousness!”
Luke 1:15
“He must never drink wine or strong drink”
Could the angel be an Essene channel? When Dalai Lama references spirits, he never speaks of the channeling *human*:
https://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden/statements-announcements/his-holiness-advice
Mark 9:3
“His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them.”
Jesus normally wears a one-piece chiton so rare and basic it would be almost underwear. Clark Kent takes the Apostles to a purification ritual & suddenly he’s SuperEssene!
Essenes take off their Brightey Whiteys when working:
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/news/qumran-clothing-suggests-scroll-authors-were-essene/
Working = ministry, so mebbe he’s not subject to purity law.
Mathew 2:23
“He will be called a Nazarene.”
(However, no such prophecy is found in the OT – Wiki.)
ZA-dock, ZA-karia, El’aZAr, Na’ZA’rene
Add some glottal stops, r/linguistics?
Zachariah 9:10
“I will take away…the warhorses from Jerusalem. He will proclaim peace to the nations.”
So, John the Baptist sparks it.
The NAzarene “in the Davidic line” breathes on it.
El’AZar, the Zealot, fans the flame at Masada – a same scribe found as Qumran.
James “the Just” (Essene buzzword for handling the *material* side) kicks off the 1rst Judeo-Roman war
Why did Jews/Jesus hold to apocalypticism when it never happened for the Zoroastrians? In addition to faith being a propagator of belief, was apocalypticism simply a preexisting disciplinary tool used to keep order?
Jesus wasn’t influenced by Zoroastrians, but by fellow Jews. The development of apocalypticism appears to be an internal Jewish developmenbt for the most part, just as Zoroastrian views were internal to Zoroastrianism for the most part. (If you say that Jews had to get their views from *somewhere*, then you’d have to say the same thing for the Zoroastrians, and for the people they got their views from, and for the people *they* got their views from, etc. etc. Ideas always have to start somewhere, they aren’t always borrowed, if yo see what I mean)
Charlesworth argues that John the Baptist (he calls him the Baptizer) was a novitiate at Qumran but never formally joined them, perhaps because he disagreed with their separation ideas. However, I do think it likely that he picked up some of their ascetic view, or perhaps it matched one he already had, and so it seems to me that there may be an indirect link between the Qumran community and Jesus through JB, particularly in matters of celibacy and chastity. It’s tenuous, but possible, I had a brief exchange with Prof. Charlesworth a couple of years ago, and he was positive toward the thought.
I’d say there’s no evidence of his view.
Charlesworth argues that the similarities between JB and Qumran in their exegesis of Isa. 40:3, their diet, their geographical location, and asceticism all indicate to him that “[ital]some relationship[/ital]” did exist between them. He holds that JB adopted some of the Qumran teachings, though he rejected their hatted of all outside the community, and he used baptism differently. The evidence is circumstantial and he never says it is convincing, just that it’s suggestive.
Paula Fredriksen discusses the commonalities between the Jesus Movement and Qumran in _Jesus of Nazareth_ adding that a “very direct connection” between cannot and should not be drawn, but that there is a “striking” shared sensibility (101-02).
I’m aware that the suggestion of Qumran influence on JB is controversial and that a number of scholars deny there is any connection. But I do think Charlesworth does offer suggestive evidence.
I’d say there are a lot of people like me in Durham, socially liberal people who agree with me on the interpreetion of the Constitution and eat a very similar Mediterranean Diet. It doesn’t mean they have influenced me or that I even know who they are. There are just a lot of people like that.
Prof Ehrman,
1. Please during the life and ministry of Jesus, were the highpriests at the time of Maccabeans or Hasmonean descent?
2. Which of the 12 tribes of Israel do the Maccabeans trace their lineage to?
1. Sorry, off hand I don’t remember Caiaphas’s lineage; 2. All priests descended from Levi (through Aaron).
The Maccabees are descended from Mattathias the Cohen, meaning they are of the tribe of Levi and the family of Aaron. However, they were not descendants of Zadok, King David’s high priest, whose family had traditionally held the high priesthood, especially after Ezekiel assigned it to them. Many in Judaea, probably including the Qumran community, never accepted the Hasmoneans (the Maccabees became the Hasmoneans) as high priests because they were not Zadokites, and perhaps may have referred to one of them as the “Wicked Priest” for that reason, though I don’t believe that has been settled.
By the time of Jesus, the Romans picked the high priest, and while they would have limited their choice to a Cohen (if only not to stir up yet another riot), I don’t think they cared about the Zadok line. High priests under Rome rarely lasted long; Caiaphas is unusual in being high priest through much of Pilate’s tenure, suggesting that he was cooperative and useful to the Romans. He lost his position after Pilate was recalled.
A study about dead see scroll said there are stunning similarities between Essenes’ Community Rule (1QS) and ideas found in Pauls’ epistles. 2 Cor 6:14–17: “Do not be mismatched with unbelievers. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship is there between light and darkness? What agreement does Christ have with Beliar? Or what does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, ‘I will live in them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.’ Therefore come out from them, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch nothing unclean; then I will welcome you.”
I think similarities are following: separation from anything impure, identification of Beliar (Belial) as opponent and association of the community of believers metaphorically as the temple of God.
Didn’t Peter require even stricter rules from his community than Paul? Why didn’t the apostles and their followers follow Jesus’ example on lax interpretation of the law and hanging around sources of contamination? Isn’t that odd knowing they believed Jesus was God?
1. Probably 2. I’m not sure that view is “lax.” it is prioritizing one aspect of law over another, as of coruse, the opposing view does as well. 3. Sorry — I don’t know what you think is odd or why…
I guess we will never know, but (and I am echoing some other posts here) it would seem to me that John the Baptist was influenced by the Essenes, he had a similar belief system. But John (like Paul?) had a sense of trying to bring these ideas of the end times and repentance to a wider audience, unlike the reclusive Essenes. Jesus became a follower of John, his teacher, and he adopted these ideas from him. That is why Jesus has some similarities to the Essenes, even if he never met them. Being from Galilee, he was not as puritanical as the Essenes or Pharisees.
Does this sound reasonable, or am I writing fiction? Thank you Bart, you are a world champion.
Sure, it’s possible. Most things are! But there were scores and scores of apocalypticists at the time, and most of them were not influenced simply by one group of them (the one we now happen to have writings from). So the question is: why think this particular person was, especailly when his major views run contrary to that particualar group.
Both Jesus and John the Baptist were:
1.) Urgently obsessed with the imminent arrival of the Messiah (“Son of Man”?) who would turn the world upside down and establish the Kingdom of God on earth.
2.) Uncompromisingly dualistic, allowing for no middle ground — everyone must choose to side with either the forces of good or evil, none will remain nonaligned in the coming confrontation.
3.) Radical ascetics so extreme that they were celibate vagabonds with no home or family, occupation or personal possessions.
Further, Jesus — and possibly John — was a pacifist who advocated a communal attitude, if not lifestyle, objected to oaths, preached repentance, and implied the immortality of the soul (for eventual final judgment.)
Are these not the values, lifestyle, theology and eschatology of the Essene community? What other major views did Jesus have that “run contrary to that particular group”?
Finally, they even began their ministries — together — by the Jordan river not 10 miles from the Qumran monastery.
Let’s just apply the venerable Duck Test. If they ascetically walk like Essenes, apocalyptically talk like Essenes, ceremonially baptize like Essenes, I’m thinking they were… Essenes.
Despite various rather remarkable parallels between Jesus and/or the “Jesus movement” and the DSS community (leaving out the “Essene” tag for now), pointed out by Charlesworth (Jesus and the DSS) and many others (messianic, apocalyptic eschatology stuff–e.g. Isa 40:3ff–communal living, immersion as a rite of initiation, the community as the “temple,” prayer as sacrifice, new covenanters, et al.) clearly the DSS group would have HATED Jesus for his lax and “liberal” attitude toward women, the ritually unclean, and so forth, as you point out here Bart. This is assuming of course that core founding texts, such as 1QS (Community rule) and CD (Damascus Document) remain reflective of piety toward the end of that community’s life in the 1st century CE. See example in next comment:
Oh boy do we agree on that one.
Would the DSS community have HATED Jesus for his lax and liberal attitude towards various groups, or would they merely have thought he was wasting his time?
Their rules require that there be no attempt to share the knowledge of the group with the “men of the Pit”, or anyone outside their covenant community; evidently the issue of reaching out to those outside had been raised with them, and they rejected it.
Jesus, on the other hand, engaged in just this sort of outreach that they forbade. I am not sure that would have made him an object of hatred for them though; they may well have seen him as having good intentions, while still thinking him extremely misguided for trying to communicate with certain groups.
My favorite example with my students is a simple one: CD XI.10ff and the Sabbath rules, especially “No man shall assist a beat to give birth on the Sabbath day. And if it should fall into a cistern or pit, he shall not lift it out on the Sabbath,” contrasted, of course, with Luke 14:1-5 (man with “dropsy”) and Mt’s addition to Mark’s “withered hand” healing in Matt 12:11-12: Which of you having an ass or an ox that has fallen into a well, will not immediately pull him out on a Sabbath day; What man of you, if he has one sheep and it falls into a p[it on the sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value is a man than a sheep. It is one thing to wax warm over the rough parallels between the two movements but just as with reading the Canons of the Church Councils to get the real nitty-gritty lowdown on the social life of a group, take a look at the the “statues” of 1QS from column XV on.
On this issue I have a (rare) point of disagreement with the professor.
Regardless of whether or not Jesus actually had spiritual power sufficient to gain a reputation as a miracle-worker, the kind of spiritual enlightenment and wisdom so clearly manifested in his words alone do not emerge ex nihilo in someone at the age of 30. Surely many (if not most) of Jesus’ oft-cited “missing years” must have been spent not making pairs of end tables in Nazareth, but in study, prayer and meditation. Somewhere. With some community.
The entire thrust of his teachings make it more than a little unlikely that this could have been with either the animal-sacrifice priesthood of the Sadducees (contra Mt 9:13) or the Law-obsessed Pharisees (contra Mk 7:6-13//Mt 15:4-9).
However, the asceticism and celibacy, the fastidiousness about wealth and power, the disdain for hypocrisy, the apocalyptic expectations of a transcendent, earth-shattering “War of the Sons of Light Against the Sons of Darkness” — the very raison d’être of the Essenes — could hardly be more perfectly consonant with Jesus’ own life, values and preaching.
The logical inference is that John the Baptist was a monk at Qumran who came to the conclusion that the Essene’s TEOTWAWKI message needed to be spread beyond the confines of the monastery. So he left there along with several disciples — among them Jesus — to preach about and perform ritual ablutions in preparation for the imminent arrival of the Messiah. In fact the location he chose to conduct his ministry was only about ten miles from the Qumran monastery — some six miles north of where the Jordan empties into the Dead Sea.
At some point either John or Jesus (or both) concluded that warnings of the impending apocalypse had best not wait for the Chosen People to seek out the preacher in the wilderness and instead bring the preaching to them.
So John baptized Jesus, assigned a couple of his other disciples as traveling companions, and sent the small group on a missionary expedition to bring the apocalyptic ministry to the outside world. Specifically, the part of Galilee known to Jesus — the small, but vibrant, fishing village of Capernaum on the north shore Lake Gennesaret.
Greetings & Salutations, Prof. Ehrman, from the Great Lakes State!
I should have ended my last post in this thread with a question because I am very much interested in hearing your thoughts on this issue. I know that not only you but most scholars dismiss the idea that John the Baptist and/or Jesus were — or ever had been — so much as members of the Essene sect, much less monks at the Qumran monastery (very near where both began their public ministries.) What I have never heard is: Why? The parallels seem pretty compelling, even without the contradistinction to the other two sects (their disagreements with which appear to be far sharper than the comparatively minor points of divergence from what is known about the Essenes.)
Am I mistaken in one or more of my data points? Alternatively, are there other factors, notwithstanding, of which I am unaware that make association of John and/or Jesus with the Essenes unlikely, e.g., something explicitly contradictory in, say, Josephus?
It is possible to have LOTS of agreements with someone without being a member of their group. I agree with my next door neighbor about tons of things — it would be a very long list, from music preferences to ecoomic policies to views of communism to Yankees over the Mets. But I am decidedly not a member of his Baptist church.
True enough. But if most of your neighbors are Catholics and Lutherans — all of whom are Mets fans whose taste in music and views on economics and communism are opposite of yours — isn’t it reasonable to infer that you, like you next door neighbor, must be a Baptist? Especially since all of those opinions are articles of faith in your neighborhood?
(Hey, wait a minute… I thought your next door neighbor was a pagan! 😉 )
Greetings,
We interviewed Dr. Simon Joseph author of “Jesus, the Essenes, and Christian Origins: New Light on Ancient Texts and Communities”. Dr. Joseph is also an elected member of the Studiorum Novi Testamenti Societas (SNTS).
We asked the question, How did you determine that the Jesus movement could not be identified as Essenic, when it was both in proximity and influenced by the Essenes?
“This is an historical question and should be answered in an historically responsible way, which means “drawing within the lines” of those disciplinary limits. From that perspective, what we can say is that Jesus and his movement lived in chronological, geographical, and ideological proximity to the Essenes and so were most likely influenced by the movement. That is a modest claim and it is based on the comparative method –cataloguing the similarities and differences between the two movements. To identify Jesus as an “Essene” – or his movement as “Essenic” – draws a conclusion that goes beyond the evidence…”
Full interview and answer here: http://www.11thstory.com/interviews/joseph
How does one weigh or consider Josephus’s detailed summary of the Essenes versus the focus on the community at Qumran? Could Josephus’s description provide any connection to the earlier followers of Jesus?
These are very big and much debated questions. Most scholars think that the community at Qumran was of the sort of thing Josephus was describing, and that they were not directly connected with the followers of Jesus.
Please reply Dr ehrman thank you I’m your fans
There is no need to post your comments more than once.
DrEhrman, in the parable of the weeds the weeds are considered the sons of the evil, is this an Essene idea? If for Jesus all mankind is son of God why someone is considered son of the evil?
The Essenes would have had a similar idea, but so did lots of Jews. My sense is that Jesus did *not* think that all humans were on the side of God, but that many sided with evil.
Hi Bart! Wishing you a good day! Thanks for letting us ask questions on yesteryear posts.
Ok, Nasaraeans (Nazarenes?) are noted as one order of Essenes that are especially affectionate and communal, by Epiphanius. And different from the Ossaean Essenes.
Were all the Essene orders hygieneaholics?
Since the distinction between Jesus and Essenes just seems to be hygiene — maybe he got scooted out from the Essene community? lol
Ναζωραῖοι, Nazōraioi – wondering your thoughts on the similarities of names between the Essene Nazarenes and Paul being accused of being the ‘ringleader’ of the Nazarenes in Acts, because the wiki link for the word spelled as “Nazarene” links to both.
Thank you
YOu’re right that purity laws were a big deal for some groups of Essenes. But I don’t think it was a bout hygiene (they knew nothing about htat); it was about ritual purity. We won’t have any record of the Nazarenes or Nazoreans being a group of Essenes; instead they were understood to be an early group (or groups) of Jewish Christians.
Ok, so ritual purity. Not hygiene, but more like Mark 2:16?
” When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
Josephus also described the Essenes like this.
Egalitarian.
So what if Mark 2:16 is a somewhat “coded” story of egalitarianism, like Barabbas is one of peaceful vs non-peaceful change?
Josephus, how can you tell Essenes from Pharisees?
“Essenes keep faith (or loyalty) with all”
Even tax collectors for the uggh, Romans?
“Especially those in power, since no one attains power without God” (2.140)
You’re such a kisser of Roman butt, Josephus!! What about the little people?
“…nor by dress or some other outward extravagance to outshine his subordinate.”
Sounds egalitarian.
They are not whatever sect that “Hates the Billionaires” but tell the poor to “Get a job” is.
The Dead Sea Scroll writers tho, are your atypical Essenes driven to the wilderness by inequality and revolution. (Well, some; caves may also have been keeping historical docs that Essenes had moved on from (progressive revelation) safe from Romans.
Esseneishness: Strict in their love of God, broad in spilling that love on humans. Josephus quotes from:
http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il/orion/programs/Mason00-2.shtml
.
Yes, hygiene was rarely an issue in teh ancient world, when it came to cleansing rituals.
Thought of something in addition, and doubly thank you for reading.
John the Baptist and Jesus are related — coming from the same family could indicate coming from the same sect in childhood, or continuing to be a member in adulthood. And those two are contrasts in purity practices:
For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine,(V) and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’(W) 35 But wisdom is proved right by all her children.”
Could it be that Jesus then is the stereotypical master who can now bend the rules?
Jesus’ apartness from the world isn’t living in a wilderness retreat like the Qumran Essenes, but his internalized apartness “I am not of this world” is way more emphasized than I imagine someone living in the equivalent of the developing world would be (who wants material things, just doesn’t have them).
Wiki notes that many Nazarene Essenes lived in other towns (so, more exposed to civilization). Maybe the far spectrum of Esseneism was just the equivalent of Reform Jews in Hollywood today.
back with some more research and Q’s! 🙏
2009 — Nazareth’s first house from First Century Judea unearthed.
2020 — Nazareth’s got three-story-deep tunnels! Interlinked. It’s a hidey hole like Qumran and Masala (who share a scribe). It’s got a First Judean War coin in it. It’s dated right to the Jesus times.
And they excavate ritual purity *stoneware* there. Like urbane Jerusalem and Qumran have.
(I feel like ritual purity has antecedents in hygiene. Pottery germy).
Qumran was once hypothesized to be a Roman villa, bc of the fanciness. Only one patch in 200 textiles. To recall:
“And some of the textiles were bleached white.” — https://www.livescience.com/17123-dead-sea-scrolls-writers-textiles.html
Matthew 17:2
“…His garments became as white as the light”
John 20:12
“And she saw two angels in white”
If Pharisees or Sadducees were trying to exalt somebody to the highest, wouldn’t they add gold? Bling.
“Nor outshine
his subjects, either in his garments or any other finery; ” — Josephus, on Essenes.
The story goes that when Mary sees Jesus at the tomb cave, she cannot gib hug. But then he can be touched later. Maybe he was in a state of purity with his Essene brahs
angels – Essene
cave – limestone
tool – hatchet
Tunneler Essenes! Little mole rats of the Lord.
I wonder if the biggest commonality you see with Jesus and Pharisees is bodily resurrection?
Matthew 3:7
“But when he saw many of the
Pharisees and Sadducees coming
for his baptism, he said to them,
“You offspring of vipers…”
Why didn’t they write, “But when he saw many of the *Jews* coming for his baptism…”?
If someone says, “The Tea Party and GOP are vipers,” I’m going to assume they’re Lefties, absence of specifics otherwise.
In Josephus world’s, option three is Essenes.
Maybe speaking in code if they’re not in the Sanhedrin and live over a secret tunnel system.
Mark 2:15
“While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors [pro-Roman?] and sinners [insurrectionists?] were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him.”
Josephus where you at?
“Then they return home to supper in the same manner, and if there are any
strangers [tax collectors and insurrectionists?] there, they sit down with them.”
Levi name is Zadok line, yeah? Maybe he has the good stoneware.
Anyways, I think Eisenman — who I found last night in an overview — is right about James and Paul. James is not as open as Jesus and Paul is towards Westerners.
Last night, I learned ftft that John the Baptist was protesting Herod’s divorce of the daughter of Nabataean 🤔 King Aretas.
Today,
“…the Dead Sea Scrolls which includes some papyri in Nabataean 🤔…”
It’s a DSS “Son of God” scrolls.
The DSS “Damascus Document” is about leaving Judeah for Damascus — Nabataean 🤔territory. What is your take on why Paul the pre-Apostle was searching — outside of Israel & Rome — for the earliest Christians?
Isaiah 27:12
“In that day from the river Euphrates to
the Brook of Egypt…” is David’s kingdom.
Jewish Antiquities I.22, 1
Josephus ~AD 93-4 says Nabataeans are Ishmael’s eldest son (Genesis 25:13) and the Nabatene range is from Euphrates to the Red Sea.
2 Corinthians 11:32
“In Damascus the governor under King Aretas had the city of the Damascenes guarded in order to arrest me” – Paul.
So remember how in 2020, we learned about up-to-three-stories-deep hiding places under Nazareth?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/listen-what-do-we-know-about-nazareth-in-jesus-time-an-archaeologist-explains/amp/
Nabataeans hid *underground.* There’s been ~0% underground archaeology — satcams/LiDAR are finding a whole world under Petra.
Underground — it’s easier to use vegetation to hide than sheer cliffs. And hide wealth 👀
Do you think Jesus’ Kingdom of Heaven could’ve been more than spiritual — also idk, a Greater Israel led by its eldest son?
https://nabataea.net/explore/history/who/
No, I’m sure his kingdom was to be on earth.