(9 votes, average: 4.89 out of 5)
Loading...In this thread on “charity” in early Christianity I’ve been discussing what the Christian writers said about the importance of giving money to those in need. But did all this preaching have any real-life effect on anything?
In his classical discussion of wealth in antiquity, Paul Veyne pointed out that it is important to “distinguish carefully between the ethic that a society practices…and the ethic that this society professes. The two ethics usually have little in common.” (Bread and Circuses, p. 25) To this point I have been discussing early Christian rhetoric. But what about its practice?
There is solid evidence that the rhetoric had at least some effect on the ground, and I will be arguing that over time the effect was highly significant. I have already mentioned Paul’s collection for the poor in Jerusalem. This was a real action in real time, and it set a pattern for times to come. Some fifty years after Paul the
… Blog membership gives you the chance to read this entire post — and all the posts going back over ten years! Join up! Every bit of your small membership fee goes to charity. Click here for membership options
Is it historically accurate that the earliest Christians did in fact share everything in common along the lines of Acts 2:44-45 and 4:32-37?
I’d say almost certainly not. That’s simply Luke’s emphasis on the complete unity of the early believers.
Didn’t the Romans provide, on a large scale, bread and circuses to the people? Even if it was more a means of social control than an exercise in compassion, wouldn’t it still qualify as welfare for the poor?
In some cities, to citizens. It was not a matter of poverty relief — the dole would go to anyone who was a citizen, but not to all those people who weren’t, and certainly not to the destitute.
Powerful stuff
Emperor Julian was raised in the church, but converted to paganism, and deemed Christians “atheists.” That’s fascinating. I’d love to learn more about Julian, specifically what he found so attractive about paganism and what he found so wrong with Christianity.
I deal with him in my book The Triumph of Christianity. Very intersteieng indeed. Maybe I should post on him.
A post specifically on Emperor Julian has my vote. Thanks!
Yup, it’s on my list. Maybe a couple of posts!
In the Hebrew Bible, when did the legendary sources become historical?
My sense is that Jews who saw these books as authoritative understood them from the outset to be descriptions of what actually happened.
It is interesting that I have seen many levels of being charitable. There are many generous people in the US and world who want to help the poor. But I also know many people who only want to help family members. And then another group who only want to help those in their local church. Also, when I was growing up, the Christian churches I attended always said that all donations needed to be given to the church so that the leadership could determine how best to use the money. (It was usually deemed best to be used internally.)
It seems that most churches use the examples in the Bible of Paul saying that he is collecting for the poor in Jerusalem to say that the Bible commands everyone “to give back to the lord” via the church. And there are still Christian churches who look to the Hebrew scriptures to tell everyone that they need to give 10% or more to the church. There are no example in the NT that say to give to a church to support a building payment and maintenance plus preachers’ salaries, correct?
Not exactly! Though 1 Timothy does indicate that communities should support their preachers, and quotes the words of Jesus in support (“a workman is worthy of his hire”) in 1 Tim 5:18.
1. So the impact of their charity grew over time as more members joined, and more money started coming in? If only modern churches would do the same…
2. How did people with mental illnesses (epilepsy, bipolar disorder, etc) handle their illness back then ? With no proper medication, would it be so severe that they couldn’t do daily tasks? Or did no one really take notice of it…
It depends how bad their illness was, just as now. People certainly noticed. In Christian circles these illnesses were often considered as cases of demonic possession.
I wish I could remember the source for this comment, but I can’t find it now. But I believe have read that as recently as a few hundred years ago, people in the US/colonies/Europe who had down syndrome children would pray over them and that if they weren’t able to exorcise the demon, they exposed the child to the elements–feeling that this would remove the threat of further demonic possession within the community.
Ugh. The exorcisms continue, but not exposure (I hope).
Bart, If I may, I have a question about another topic of yours. The 7th edition of your NT textbook (and I assume all other editions) defines that the 4 Gospels are Greco-Roman biographies while Acts is a Greco-Roman history. You also state that some Greco-Roman histories focus on a leader (page 317). I wonder the following:
1. What distinguishes a Greco-Roman biography from a Greco-Roman history that focuses on a leader?
2. Are there examples of Greco-Roman history that focus on a leader that are translated into English?
1. It’s pretty similar to today: if you have a history of the Revolutionary War with George Washington as a key figure, you wouldn’t consider it a biography. 2. The best known are the Lives of Plutarch, easily available. There are also the biographies of Suetonius, of the various emperors.
Hi Dr Ehrman!
In the Sodom and Gomorrah story, why does Lot’s wife turn into salt by looking back?
1. What is the symbolism/significance of salt? Why salt?
2. Why is looking back a problem?
Thank you!
Looking back was a problem because the angels strictly told them not to (Gen 19:17); I think the idea was they were to get outta there with no second thoughts and move as quickly ahead to what awaited them next.
It is often thought that this is an etiological tale — a story that is used to explain the existence of a natural phenomenon (e.g., as in the case of the serpent in the Garden of Eden, who is cursed by being forced to crawl on its stomach — the story is meant to explain why snakes can move without feet). Many people think that the story wsa told to explain where a pillar of salt in the region originally came from.
As I read this post, I’m reminded of John Wesley, the great preacher of the 18th century. The second of 19 children,( 9 died at birth) he was poor but determined not to live that way. Records show that he preached some 35,000-40,000 sermons during his life and travelled some 250,000 thousand miles,much on horseback and foot. For a time, he indulged in some of the finer things life offered( Ecclesiastes ?) but later he realized his foolishness to God and gave away most of his wealth by the time he died,leaving very little behind. At one point in his life, he was making some 1400 pounds/yr when many were living comfortably on 30 pounds/yr. He continued to live for himself at 28 pounds/yr and give everything left to charity. Apparently at his death,only 100 pounds, mostly in coins, was discovered left behind. Amazing!!!
Hi Bart, I’m focusing on historical criticism of Jesus’s sayings in Mark about the “Son of Man” (without reading Greek). I’m starting with “Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium.” What other books do you recommend?
There’s a huge range of views, as you probably know, and lots of debate. My views are not the majority. Most any book on the hsitoricl Jesus has to deal with the issue. You might consider the books by Geza VErmes, Dale Allison, Paula Fredriksen, and E. P. Sanders if you want some of the heavy hitters.
At one time I thought I should pick the Christian denomination who gave most to the poor. But to analyze that, you would have to take into account 1) relative to income (hard to get that by individual) 2.) What percentage of the amount given to churches or other charities counts as “to the poor” as opposed to the environment, broader social justice initiatives and so on.
It’s hard to find out even the proportions of various denominations give to their church.. but this is interesting info about Catholics https://balancingeverything.com/church-giving-statistics/
I also peered into the LDS church, which does quite a bit both with money and volunteering here and overseas (as do other denoms) . However on the web there’s a lot of mildly hateful stuff about them.. “not giving enough” “not giving to the right people” “not transparent enough” “interfering with church and state” to “shouldn’t get tax deductions.” Glad I’m not one.. lots of free-flowing hate out there- Morm-o-phobia.
Here’s an article that says religious folks (not just Christians) give more to other than religious institutions with data adjusted for other factors. https://www.hoover.org/research/religious-faith-and-charitable-giving
Me again on your dismissal of the Acts notes about a community shared goods (at some level). I know Luke was emphatic in portraying the irenic and united character of the earliest church, and I know full well that it was anything but irenic and united. However, I cannot see why Luke would find it necessary to go to the length he does in focusing on personal wealth sharing when it isn’t necessary for the harmonious image he wants to portray. IMHO, I think you’re missing something by dismissing these community notes on wealth sharing.
I think you have to put your assessment of that passage in close relationship to Luke’s themes and emphases thorughout Acts and to what we know about the early Christian movement from other sources. The passage does not coincide with what we find in other evidence about early Christianity (among other things, that there were well over 8,000 Jews in Jeruslame who converted within a few months! Or that all of them were living communally); but it certain dovetails with Luke’s utopian views of the early mission, it’s success, and the harmony of the converts.
Bart
You mention the proliferation of Charity in the Empire as the ranks of Christianity swelled. BUT… Could it be more accurate that the ranks of Christianity swelled because of the Charity of the Christians, that Charity was the driving force of the spread of Christianity. That Christianity proliferated throughout the Poor and needy of the Empire rather than the merchants and wealthy. However the merchants and wealthy contributed greatly of their wealth in the proliferation of Charity and Christianity.
I don’t think that sufficient emphasis is placed on the missions and missionary work of Paul and the 1st century Christians. What would separate the non believing Jews and the believing Jews (Christians) in the eyes of the Gentiles would be that the believing Jews (Christians) bestowed “Charity” within the Empire. They loved those outside of their group not just those within.
A far cry from American Christianity today..
Some people have thought that. I looked into it when writing my book Triumph of Christianity, and couldn’t find any convincing evidence for it. None of our sources for the first 300 years of Xty says anything about it (though they do mention other things)
Bart… In regards to a Past Topic when you expressed your curiosity about “Time”, I came across this article in Astronomy.com that gives the best overview of the current concepts. Not that it really helps… but it is a very interesting read on the subject.
https://astronomy.com/magazine/news/2022/05/the-struggle-to-find-the-origins-of-time?fbclid=IwAR3cQwncZadt6jtN6a9GPcLTp53qHgWLsgCn0W9R9-lU8iwfIvrb9y6nZ4k
THanks.
It’s likely that early communities had a dark side as well.
Do you remember Ananias & Sapphira, the old couple who sold a property, didn’t donate to the church the whole amount of money and, according to “Luke” or whoever wrote Acts, was killed by “the spirit”?
When I was a kid I believed literally and it sounded scary and cruel, now I know that probably is literary fiction, like the 80-90% of Acts but it still conveys a horrible message. German theologian Uta Ranke Heinemann in her 1994 book “Putting away childish things” criticized this story.
Peter behaves like an abusive and merciless cult leader, a sort of Reverend Jim Jones. Ananias and Sapphira died “because they lied”… funnily enough, according to Gospels, Peter lied several times (“I don’t know that man!”).
Men are required to forgive seventy times seven and “the spirit” cannot forgive once?
Dr Ehramn
Is there any evidence that
Jesus actually practiced what
he preached? Did he ever have
a job? If so did he keep the money
he earned or gave it all away? Did
he own any tools that he later sold
and gave the money to the poor?
Did Jesus give a shirt to a shirtless
person? A woman uses a jar of
very expensive perfume on Jesus’
head that according to desciples
could have been sold for a year’s
wages but Jesus rebukes them and
adds : the poor you will always have
with you.
I am not sure if it ever actually
happened and the story probably
is fabricated, but if true Jesus should
have multiplied the jar of perfume
just like the bread and fish and by
selling 5000 jars of perfume they
could have fed a family for 5000
years or 1000 families for 5 years
because the end of time was
very near anyway according to Jesus.
It appears he left his job to become and itinerant preacher who depended on begging and the funds others provided to survive. So yes, it does appear that he practiced what he preached.