(18 votes, average: 4.94 out of 5)
Loading...Here’s a topic I haven’t discussed in a while! Just about every thinking human being in our context has heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls, even if they have no clue what the scrolls are, what they contain, and how they were found. And it’s no surprise they’ve heard of them. The Dead Sea Scrolls are by virtual consensus the most significant manuscript discovery of the twentieth century, of major importance for understanding Judaism at the time of Jesus and, in some respects, the teachings of Jesus himself.
Here is what I say about the scrolls in my New Testament textbook. I begin by talking about the Jewish group widely thought to have been responsible for producing, using, and eventually hiding the scrolls — which remained hidden from 70 CE until 1947! The group is called the Essenes.
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The Essenes are the one Jewish sect not explicitly mentioned in the New Testament. Ironically, they are also the group about which we are best informed. This is because …
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Why were these script copiers more accurate than NT script writers? Or were they?
The writers of the Dead Sea Scrolls? We don’t know if they were, since we don’t have earlier copies of their works to compare them to.
“It appears that when the Jewish war of 66-73 CE began, the Essenes at Qumran hid some of their sacred writings before joining in the struggle.”
Did the Qumran Essenes join the revolt elsewhere (Jerusalem?), or did they fight at Qumran? I always assumed they were slaughtered by the Romans at Qumran.
On another, but related, matter – last year (https://ehrmanblog.org/a-new-genre-in-jewish-antiquity-the-apocalypse/) I asked what you made of Boccaccini’s proposal over Enochic Judaism (and it’s origin from Qumran), and you responded “I don’t know what I think about Enochic Judaism.” Is that still the case?
I ask, as I wonder how much of late 2nd Judaism owes a debt to Enochic Judaism, especially the realignment in Jewish thinking over the cause of suffering (instead of God being the cause of human suffering, the fallen angels who run amock are responsible). We see, especially in Mark’s gospel, many unclean spirits causing illness amongst the population. Perhaps this was the dominant view at the time? Demonology being the fashionable theory over why so many suffer? Interestingly GJohn doesn’t seem to agree.
It’s usually thought they were attacked at Qumran.
Yup, pretty much. I’ve studied the books of Enoch, but have not done any work on the social history of the community.
Do you have any writings on the Books of Enoch? I’ve recently stumbled upon them and was curious if they were a “Jewish retelling” of Sumerian myths. I’m out of my element here, but find these books at least to be entertaining.
Nope, I’m afraid not. I’d suggest you look at Nickelsburg’s books/commentaries.
I know some scholars and historians, claim the Qumran site was a pottery factory, and the scrolls were a cache rescued from the destruction of the temple and have nothing to with the Essenes. The basis for their claim is there are many different styles of writing on the scrolls, more than what would be expected from a small community. Not being an expert myself, I’d like to know your thoughts on that claim.
The standard view is that some of the scrolls were produced at Qumran but others were brought into the community by people coming to live there (e.g., from Jerusalem). So there would naturally be different writing styles.
What are your thoughts on the claims from archeologists that Qumram was a pottery factory and had no relationship to the Essenes?
I”d say it’s a small minority view and not one that I’ve ever found convincing. If you want to read further on the community, you might read my colleague Jodi Magness’s book on The Archaeology of Qumran and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
I’ve read Dr Magness’s book on Masada and found it very informative. I’ve just ordered a copy of the book you suggested and look forward to reading it. As far as the claims regarding Qumram not having any connections to the Essenes, I’m on the fence myself. However Dr Yizhak Magen and Dr Yuval Peleg of the Israeli Antiquities Authority have some very compelling evidence to support that.
Could these “impurities in the Jewish Temple” be a belief they shared with Jesus and that’s why he prophesied that the Temple would be destroyed?
They are very similar, yes; but that wouldn’t mean that one of them got them from the other — it would mean that various folk or groups had similar views.
Is it true that the Essenes hoped that the Temple would be purified, rather than destroyed, as predicted by Jesus?
Hmmm… Off hand I don’t remember — and I don’t have my books with me! Do you know what passage you have in mind?
I’ve had a brief search and I’ve come across this Wikipedia entry on the Temple Scroll that discusses a greater form of purity at the temple: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Scroll#Purity_in_the_Temple_Scroll
It seems the Essenes believed that worship at the temple was imperfect and impure, and they demanded a greater degree of purity. They seem to be especially hung up on when men ejaculate!!
I’m interested in this view (temple purity, not when men have a happy ending) as this seems to be one of the big dividing lines between Jesus and the Essenes. Whilst the Essenes looked forward to a day where they could worship at the temple in purity and perfection, Jesus thought the whole thing would come tumbling down soon. I wonder, was Jesus unique in this belief concerning the 2nd temple? Or were other Jews also predicting the 2nd temple would be destroyed?
Oh, yes, most ascetics throughout history have been hung up on ejaculation. As to the temple, part of what I do know is in today’s post.
Lev: “Is it true that the Essenes hoped that the Temple would be purified, rather than destroyed, as predicted by Jesus?”
Perhaps some did, but I think at least some of those who lived at Qumran expected the current temple to be destroyed and a new one to be built. See, for example, the Letter of Enoch (4Q212 f1iv:15-18):
15 And after it shall come an eighth week, one of righteousness, in which [a sword] shall be given 16 to all the righteous to execute true judgment on all the wicked, 17 and the wicked will be delivered into their hands. When it is over, they will acquire possessions righteously, 18 and a great temple of [ki]n[g]ship will be built [ויתבנא היכל [מ]ל֯[כ]וׄת רבא] in majestic splendor to endure for eternal generations.
Ah, perfect!! Thanks. I hope that, unlike me, you had that memorized. 🙂
Very interesting – many thanks Robert.
I wonder – did the Essenes believe that the temple would be destroyed by their enemies before they rebuilt it, or did they envisage themselves (or maybe God?) rebuilding the temple without it being destroyed first in some violent and hostile action?
It may seem like a subtle difference, but it could be the difference between a newspaper editor looking at an article thinking “This is no good at all, this needs re-writing” to “this is a good start, but it needs improving”.
Bart: “Ah, perfect!! Thanks. I hope that, unlike me, you had that memorized. ????”
At my age, nothing is memorized. πάντα μνημονευόμενα ἐν τῷ μνήματι φυλακιζόμενα.
Lev: “Very interesting – many thanks Robert.
I wonder – did the Essenes believe that the temple would be destroyed by their enemies before they rebuilt it, or did they envisage themselves (or maybe God?) rebuilding the temple without it being destroyed first in some violent and hostile action?
It may seem like a subtle difference, but it could be the difference between a newspaper editor looking at an article thinking ‘This is no good at all, this needs re-writing’ to ‘this is a good start, but it needs improving’.”
Impossible to say. The quotation from the Letter of Enoch is the only pertinent reference I’m aware of and it just does not give enough detail or context to say much more. It wouldn’t have been destroyed by their enemies, the current temple leadership, but it could be destroyed by their enemies, the gentile forces opposed to God. Or it could simply be acquired through military victory by the Sons of Light and their angelic warriors, demolished, and rebuilt according to the new extra-biblical plan envisaged in the Temple Scroll, where there is no place for gentile participation in the worship of God. Not very ecumenical, these guys.
If they thought they were going into the final battle before the coming of the Messiahs, why the need to preserve their writings, hidden away? Surely the priestly messiah could lead them in proper worship without consulting their books. Any hint that they were like modern millennialists in that they thought there would be a period of tribulation before the kingdom was finally established? Perhaps preserving their writings for use during such a period?
Great question. Unfortunately we don’t know the answer!
Have you posted about the teacher of righteousness? I was wondering so I can read it. Did they have something to do with one cup sort of thing? I cannot remember if they did or not. I may be wrong.
No, I don’t believe I have.
A while back you made a post in which you gave a brief description of every book in the NT, i was wondering where i could find that?
It’s here: https://ehrmanblog.org/a-synopsis-of-each-new-testament-book/
“[Jesus] too believed that the end of time was near, and that people had to prepare for the coming onslaught.”
Did Jesus get his views from Essenes or can we know? (interesting that “love your neighbor but hate your enemy” is not in the Torah but in 1QRuleOfCommunity except with sons of light/darkness) Also was curious if this could be used to rule out apologetic explanations of Matthew 10:23 such as this:
(1) When Jehovah providentially sent the Babylonians to ravage the southern kingdom of Judah, Isaiah depicted the event as an invasion of the Lord himself (Isa. 13:2-5).
(2) Christ warned the erring churches of Ephesus and Pergamum that if they did not mend their rebellious ways, he would “come” and bring punishment upon them (Rev. 2:5, 16).
(3) God warned the Jews that he would send “his armies” to destroy those who murdered his Son, and cause their city to be burned (Mt. 22:7); this was to be accomplished by the Roman invasion.And it was represented as a “coming” of the Son of man in power and great glory (Mt. 24:30, 34; cf. Lk. 21:27, 32).For further consideration of this matter, see: “A Study of Matthew Twenty-Four”, elsewhere on this site.
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/668-what-is-the-meaning-of-matthew-10-23
I think not. I’ve posted on this before. Maybe I’ll do so again!
It is now believed that the book of Esther was also found among the scrolls:
https://www.thetorah.com/article/newly-deciphered-qumran-scroll-revealed-to-be-megillat-esther
Uh, I believe that’s satire, no?
And FUNNY!
Aaah it is Bart Ehrman and he is speaking to me 😊😊😊😊😊. So content.
Dirtnaps – clever! Yeah, he *doesn’t* dirtnap. He doesn’t bite the dust.
Crucifixion kills by means of exhaustion. So why isn’t Jesus whispering or wheezing it out, if it’s working? Croaking — it’s in the name.
To clarify my hypothesis, in Roman army medicine of that time, sponges could contain powder medications.
The sponge (where else in ancient texts do people drink from them?) could contain a narcotic/paralytic.
Pain caused by it could be countered by channeling as the archetype in that Qumran text.
Mark 15:44
” Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead…”
Six hours, and he didn’t even have to carry his own pablum that much.
So,
Yahad: community (Qumran’s Essene angelic channelers)
Yazad: spark (angel group, Zoroastrianism)
Spark is big in Gnostic Jesus, right??
I went down a rabbithole with the Z consonants prevalent in the DSS (like Zadok) and the Gospels — and find Zs less prevalent in Pharisee Mishnah of that time.
Lazarus.
Ezov – Hyssop is David’s herb, I learned yesterday. Like your thought exercise on Branch Davidians!
I feel that Jesus’ extended family — maybe Zoroastrianized through diasporas – might be downplayed in this.
Like the foreteller-healer-magicians
the magi
I remember reading somewhere that a pretty close version of the Sermon on the Mount was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls (the “sectually explicit” ones?) and that, according to the consensus about their dating… that would mean that it pre-dates Jesus… and was borrowed by New Testament writers. My question is, is my memory on that even close to accurate and if so, what are the specifics?
No, I don’t think so!
I’m two for two on not having any specific references for my questions. Sorry. Perhaps it wasn’t the Sermon on the Mount… but some other NT passage… but from your quick and direct dismissal I’m guessing you aren’t aware of anything from any of the DSS texts that is also found in the NT. Fair enough. If I find a real reference in the not-too-distant future, I’ll ask again.
A quick web search later… and I found this: https://www.bible.ca/manuscripts/bible-manuscripts-dss-dead-sea-scrolls-4Q525-Beatitudes-Jesus-Matthew5-blessed-recognizable-format-structure-8short-1long-50bc.htm That’s probably what I was remembering poorly.
Over the weekend I subscribed to The Great Courses Plus just for a 12-hour Dead Sea Scrolls course by Rendsburg. His pie-chart in the intro was informative… number of scrolls (930), languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek), and categories (Bible, Sectarian, non-Sectarian, Unidentified). One lecture covered alternative theories… including Barbara Thiering. I recall reading one of Barbara’s books in the early 90s. She disagreed with the DSS dating and believed that Jesus was born, lived and crucified in the Qumran / Essene community. I know she was mistaken but I really enjoyed her practical explanations of New Testament miracles using her Pesher method. So what are those plural and singular references to Jerusalem about in the NT Greek?
Yes, to say her views are generally discounted would be to put it rather mildly. But I’m not sure what references you’re referring to.
Sorry, I don’t have any real specifics for you at this time as it has been a while since I read Barbara’s book and I don’t have a copy handy to reference. I just recall Barbara referring to NT Greek saying there was a passage where someone (Paul?) left Jerusalem, traveled for a while, and arrived at Jerusalem… and that the Greek references for Jerusalem… one was singular and the other was plural… and her explanation was that one was the real Jerusalem and the other was Qumran… as her claim was that the Essene community had basically created Qumran as a replacement Israel… with the design / layout of Qumran (buildings, etc) matching what they had abandoned. I know, that’s not something you are interested in entertaining as it is too “out there”. Again, I don’t believe it, but I find it very interesting.
Prof Ehrman,
Thanks again for the time.
From this statement – “We can therefore check to see whether Jewish scribes over the intervening centuries reliably copied their texts; the short answer is that, for the most part, they did”
How well copied were these relative to the Gospels?
And please which of the Jewish sects would Jesus have most likely belonged to?
The best copies are fantastically better.
Great read! It’s interesting to see some sects of Christianity repeat the same beliefs throughout history. Isolating themselves from the rest of society and the faith due to what they perceive as religious purity. I think of the Amish, Anti-Baptist’s, etc. How accurate was the Dead Sea Isaiah scroll compared to the Septuagint translation? I really wish we would’ve found some NT manuscripts in that Qumran cave.
Bart, I have a question. You said that the scrolls found predate by almost a 1000 years the later Hebrew Bible and have very little change or errors between the two versions. Why then do you think that there have been so many errors in copying books of the New Testament. Were later scribes simply less competent or more careless when they copied manuscripts?
In *some* cases there were not a lot of changes. Why were the NT scribes more careless? They simply didn’t have strict rules of copying upon them….
I see that I wasn’t the only one with a similar question. Is this an example of great minds thinking alike??LoL
Dr Ehrman, I won’t ask about Zeus. I was wondering if you could tell me what *1 Samuel 5:2* is talking about? Maybe some of your members does not know either…
Also, Luke 9:29 (lightning) Rev 4:5 (lightning) Matthew 28:3 (lightning). The anicients all mentioned lightning… Why? Was it inspired by the Greek religion and Zeus. Everyone knows that lightning is associated with Zeus. Just curious. I am not Christian but very interested in Christanity as you already know.
You will need to quote 1 Sam 5:2 and then ask the question — and indicate what about the verse you would like to understand — so readers will know what you are asking about.
Lightening was a common theme because it “came from heaven” and was frightening and sometimes devastating.
I am slightly attracted to the minority view that the scrolls were Sadducean in origin (eg. Lawrence Schiffman’s work) not least because it would give us our only texts from that group. The arguments can be convoluted but I think in essence Schiffman is saying that the Qumran sect were a breakaway group and that the QMMT scroll, which he claims is a sort of sectarian foundational document, is consistent with what we know of Sadducean beliefs.
In his recent, excellent book on John the Baptist, Joel Marcus speculates about a possible direct relationship between John the B and the Essene community. I know from your comments that you don’t think Jesus had such a direct relationship but what about John? What is your take?
thanks
Yeah, I’m afraid I don’t agree with him. Too many differences between them in outlook and practice. My view is that hthre were lots of groups/individuals like this around, so when we happen to learn about one, that doesn’t mean they were connected with another that we happen to know about. But you’re right, it’s an excellent book, by a superb scholar.
Is it thought that John the Baptist was part of the Essenes group, that he left to form a ministry and preach regarding the coming apocalypse?
By some people. Joel Marcus argues that in his recent book on John the Baptist. But I’m afraid I don’t agree with him on the point. Too many differences between them in outlook and practice. My view is that hthre were lots of groups/individuals like this around, so when we happen to learn about one, that doesn’t mean they were connected with another that we happen to know about. But it’s an excellent book, by a superb scholar
There has been preaching about the end of time since the beginning of time. Why is this subject made so popular? Follow the money.
I’d say 99% of the time it didn’t involve money. Until, basically, the 1970s.
Is there anything in the Bible that says that a prayer helps the dead or yourself if you pray for help from God?
The Bible frequently says prayer can help *you*, but no, not those who were already dead.
Could John the Baptist have been an Essene?
Joel Marcus argues that in his recent book on John the Baptist. But I’m afraid I don’t agree with him on the point. Too many differences between them in outlook and practice. My view is that hthre were lots of groups/individuals like this around, so when we happen to learn about one, that doesn’t mean they were connected with another that we happen to know about. But it’s an excellent book, by a superb scholar
Dr. Ehrman
These scrolls were scurried away into hiding, obviously because their owners feared they would be destroyed. Yet, at this very time, the Gospel of Mark was written, copied, and distributed throughout the Empire. How do you make sense of that?
Mark wasn’t caught up in a rebellion against Rome with the legions marching against his community. In any event, it’s not clear how widely Mark was disseminated in the first couple of decades.
Dr. Ehrman
Wouldn’t verses like Mark 15:15 also have made the Gospel of Mark more popular, as it portrayed the Roman governor striving to save Jesus while the Jews insisted that he be crucified? Later Gospels strengthen this point even further. But, doesn’t this text show the Roman loyalists (the majority) that the Greco-Roman people were on the right side?
Also, what about Paul’s account in Acts where he is threatened because this new movement is threatening the makers of the gods?
I suppose it would be more popular among people who agreed with those views, yes.
> The [Essenes] did so fully expecting the apocalypse of the end of time to be imminent.
> Jesus appears to have shared many of the Essenes’ apocalyptic views,
Is there any discussion by the Essenes or in Dead Sea Scrolls on ‘the resurrection’. specifically commentaries to know whether they considered the resurrection to be literal or figurative?
It is rarely (or never explicitly) mentioned direcdtly in the Scrolls.
Did the Essenes and/or the Dead Sea Scrolls believe in or refer to an afterlife similar to Heaven and Hell? What did they believe would happen after evil was overthrown?
They apparently beleived God would bring in a new order on earth.
“But we know from other ancient authors such as Josephus that a community of Essenes was located in this area”
Did *Josephus* write about the Qumran area? If so, could you please point me to the passage?
I know Pliny spoke about the “solitary tribe of the Essenes” living near the Dead Sea, but I hadn’t heard of Josephus locating them there.
Now that you mention that, I wonder if I misspoke/misrememberd that. I’m not near my books just now, so don’t know — and don’t know where I got that from.
I also recall from reading Geza Vermes and Wise/Abegg/Cook that while the proto-Masoretic variants do line up well with later MT copies, several substantially different variants were represented among the scrolls … Some that were closer to the Hebrew that must have sourced the LXX, some that were more related to the Samaritan Pentateuch, and a variety of commentaries and other texts containing excerpts from these and perhaps other variants. Basically, while it is often pointed out that the integrity of later MT copying is demonstrably good, the diversity of variants present here seems to me to be noteworthy as well.
Excellent. How tolerant would the Temple authorities be of these people if they were in Jerusalem? Would they be able to openly live and teach? Or would they have had to be “secret” Essenes very much like Jews in some places, at some times in the Middle Ages?
There apparently were Essenes in the big cities; i can’t recall if Josephus places any in Jerusalem or not. There certainly were lots of views represented among Jews in lots of places at the time. Temple authorities were more concerned about the functioning of the Temple than with what every Jewish group was teaching.
“There are also commentaries on some of the biblical books, written principally to show that the predictions of the ancient prophets had come to be fulfilled in the experiences of the Essene believers and in the history of their community.” What predictions were thought to be fulfilled?
There’s a whole commentary on habbakuk, e.g., that goes verse by verse to show how it is being fulfilled. They are verses that you would never suspect were predictins of things yet to happen in the days of Rome. (Just as Xns today quote verses that were never meant as prophetcies.)
Speaking of a priestly messiah, I’ve toyed with the idea of Jesus actually being fathered by Zechariah, whom Mary visited immediately after the Annunciation. A priestly lineage would qualify Jesus as the Messiah son of Aaron [except that Zechariah didn’t marry her]. This could also shed led light on the money changers episode – a signal to the Essenes, who wanted to purify the Temple, that Jesus was their man?
Bart, how widespread was the idea of two messiahs? One can infer it from Zech [4.14] with the two Olive Trees representing the “two who are anointed to serve the Lord of all the earth.” Are there references to a messiah son of Aaron outside of the Qumran literature for 1st c. Judaism?
Possibly. But it’s impossible to know how widely spread it was.
Dr. Ehrman, do you think you could beat the late Father Raymond Brown in a debate? Or, how about your mentor, Dr. Bruce Metzger? Just curious… They were both more learned than me.
COMPLETELY depends on what the debate was about. But as with most debates, the supporters of one side or the other would be convinced their guy won!
Understood. Every place that lightning struck, belonged to Jupiter according to the Romans. Jupiter was the chief God of thr Roman state. Lightning was associated with the Father Zeus. I do believe some inspiration came from Juptier. He did have a temper after all, along with Poseidon. He was the best and the greatest. Jupiter Optimus Maximus I BELIEVE…
Matthew 28:3 New International Version (NIV)
3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow
I am sorry but that sounds like that is inspired by Jupiter. Thank you again Bart. I will make sure to follow your instructions.
Two Essenes’ medieval manuscripts of The Damascus Document dating from the 10th and 12th centuries have been discovered in Cairo 1896-97. How is that possible? Did some Essenes group survived in Egypt and kept making copies of the doctrines and rules after Qumran’s destruction? Could these have been the Therapeutae that Philo mentions being related to Essenes?
It’s for the same reason that Plato’s dialogues were copied in teh middle ages — not because they were copied by Platonists but by people who thought it would be worth while preserving them. (The people who produced my most recent book were not among my followers, if you see what I mean)
Sorry, I’m not convinced. To my knowledge persons who copied Plato’s writings were devoted platonists like Gemistus Pletho in Constantinople and the The Medici Circle in Florence and were even considered heretics by the Church. Book publishers print books because there is market for them, not to preserve thoughts. As Jews completely rejected some other books like The Book of Enoch and simply didn’t copy them, The Damascus Document must have had some value for the copyists.
Oh, yes, there were certainly devotees of Plato around. That’s why there was a limited market. But not everyone who copies or reads Plato is s devotee, and Gemistus Plethos was not spending months slaving over making copies himself, I would assume.
I would have assumed that manuscripts were copied for two reasons:
1. copyist had interest in the text
2. copyist was paid by someone who had interest in the text
But I have to take your word for it that manuscripts were copied for other reasons too.
Was the author of Revelation an Essene? The idea of an antichrist and evil priest defiling the temple as well as the battle of Armageddon before God intervenes and brings forth his final judgment sound a lot like Essene ideas you mention above
No, nothing suggests he was. He was definitely a follower of Jesus, and we don’t know of any Essenes who were followers of Jesus. And he was living long after we last here of Essenes, so I’m not sure any were around in his time.
Please note that we allow only three comments a day! For my religous pilgrimmage, see my books Jesus Interrupted and God’s Problem.
I apologize in advance I don’t have access to my library so am relying on recall. My question revolves around the Book of Mary Magdalene in your book The Dead Sea Scrolls. In that book Jesus tells Mary the mind is between the soul and the spirit, and the Apostles ultimately reject what Jesus revealed to her. This seems to me to be profound and the rejection of it (possibly because the info was given to Magdalene and how they judged her) has resulted in grossly skewed branches of Christianity that reject the mind and higher education itself. Do you or anyone else have any comments with regard to this?
I haven’t written a book on the Dead Sea Scrolls. I can’t recall if I’ve written on the blog about the Gospel of Mary — but even if I have, I should do it again!
Do you think that the theory that the Essenes were originally Priests from the Zadokite lineage or part of the Temple establishment is probable? It seems to me to be a bit of a stretch and speculation based on the limited knowledge we have of the group.
Yeah, these specific proposals can seem to be reaching. In this instance, it’s almost certainly the case that not ALL Essenes were Zadokites connected with the Temple. But, given the passionate opposition to the Temple authorities, it makes sense, I suppose, that the Essene movement started out that way, with displaced priests at the time of the Hasmoneans, and that they drew others into their movement of opposition to the corruptions of the new establishment.
back w research and Q’s 🙏☺️
Bodily resurrection and spiritual resurrection — ¿porque no los dos?
Dead Sea Scroll Apocryphon of Joseph, 4Q372:
“My father and my god, do not abandon me into the hands of gentiles…”
Mark 15:34
…Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?”…
Luke 23:24
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them…
Jews obv think Jesus is speaking in the, “I’m the only son,” way, but “*My* father” begins a Qumran prayer for everybody.
q1: Why is it immediately after a hyssop branch and sponge that he dirtnaps?
Nazorean root may be ne·tser, נֵ֫צֶר, meaning ‘branch. Qumran community flavors with *only* hyssop.
Branch — of — the Sons of Light.
q2: Traditional Passover involves *tasting* a bitter flavor (that’s the spirit of the law). Why does he say no to the gall wine?
q3: “I thirst” — Why didn’t the Romans just give him the drink they already offered? It’s the customary drink for cruciferoused people — analgesic-added wine.
Internet says the second drink, vinegar, may be a “last act of compassion.” Hey, it’s the the wine that has analgesic added.
q4: So, gospel harmonization — why is the vinegar offerer — a gentile — speaking of Elijah from 900 BC?
1. dirtnaps? 2. He wasn’t at a passover meal at the time; a standard explanation though is that he didn’t want to ease the pain and the gall was a pain killer; 3. I don’t think we know anything about Romans giving drinks to crucified victims. 4. Good point!
q5: Exhaustion is the means of cruciferousation — so why is Jesus *speaking loudly* and then boom, dirtnaps?
Why is he stage whispering?
Spongia somnifera:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987703001130.
Beginning ~AD 50, *Roman Army physician* Dioscorides writes “On Medical Material.” In it he describes the stomach pain of od, and the torpor of opium and mandragora. About the paralytic from the “fish without scales” in the Red Sea, idk.
Could the Great Physician have tried to roll over and play ded?
Matthew 8:10
“Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith,” Jesus says to a Centurion.
What does Jesus supermagically heal the Centurion’s servant from? Paralysis.
Mark 15:39
“This man truly was the Son of God,” says another Centurion. Loudly.
Son of God, Elijah – those are Qumran community preoccupations.
Martyrdom gets attention. His brother James’ martyrdom ends the Second Temple. But Jesus *reluctantly* sees tipping some tables (fast pass to Pontius) as Plan B.
Idk if it fits.
For examp, Kamikazes were unfortunate, uneducated teens recruited from famine districts – (10M overall w serious malnutrition.) No eldest sons. Not during peace-time.
Jesus is in peace-time. ‘Well-adjusted.’ Characterized as an inclusive, knowledgeable, well-provisioned man (not hangry), who is his own boss and
plans well in advance.
Bodily Resurrection: A How-To Guide
4Q521
“…revive the dead and bring good news to the poor…”
Mark 1:14
“Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God.”
4Q246
“He will be called the son of God…”
Mark 9:30
“…The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days, he will rise.”
(as you’ve noted in “How Jesus Became God — one of my absolute, favorite books of all time, “Son of…” wasn’t common phrasing in First Century Judea.)
John 19:39
“Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds.”
Aloe vera:
“A small trial in rats showed that a derivative of the juice helped to preserve organ function after massive blood loss.”
https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/07/27/1162782.htm
Fourth Century BC begins the appearance of aloe vera in Red Sea and Mediterranean trade routes.
Myrrh:
Anti-inflammatory (plant steroid). Antiseptic. Analgesic.
https://www.nature.com/articles/379029a0
Luke 8:3
“Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod’s household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.”
It doesn’t say just supporting them with cash, right? Even though that can be included.
How have scholars interpreted the possibility of medicine or food supply-chains via Nicodemus, Joseph of Arimethea and the women?
Do you mean historically? Nicodemus and Joseph may not be historical figures. It may well be, though, that some of Jesus’ women followers provided him and his disciples with somne of the food and resources theyneeded.
You’re right – “he wasn’t at a passover meal…” Yes!
In my research (for whatever reason, idk) I just read so much about Jesus being some sort of ‘Lamb of Passover’.
Jesus promoted comforting, not suffering.
John 14:16
He said: “I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Comforter.”
Comforter is translated from Koine ‘paraclete’, but it’s *menachem* in Hebrew. מנחם
https://weekly.israelbiblecenter.com/why-another-comforter/
Like Menahem the Essene? Rebel, mentioned by Josephus in Antiquities, and mentioned in Hag 16.b.
His magic trick — foretelling for Herod. Essene seems to be an exonym for foreteller-healer in Aramaic, like the magi — ʾassay.
And they were no fun.
“They do not have sexual relations with them during pregnancy, thus showing that their purpose in marriage is not pleasure but the assurance of posterity — Josephus, War II, 160–161.
Matthew 1:25
“But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born.”
Sucks to be them. The Pharisee midrashes from that period are all about the joy of sex.
I might have acci-conflated Menachem the Essene, and Menahem the rebel
for good reason? Comforter/Menachem may not be a name that the South, in the Israel-Judah split, would have chosen.
And here we go — Dead Sea Scroll sectarian texts — dating to the Second Temple period — always identify as Israelites, and never Judah (-ites? -eans?)
Whereas Pharisees, Rabbinical Judaism of the same Second Temple period, love to use the word Judah:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/40387605
I got confused with Jerusalem bc it’s ‘fancy’. Research says it’s *originally* Jewish ethnically, then, immigration gave plurality to folks that they once characterized as less peace-loving, like Philistines/Edomites (Herods).
Also, I think modern historians forget culture>genes — if mixed-liason folk aren’t being *educated and financially supported* to the same standard, you could find plenty of genes, but less inherited customs.
Maybe Jerusalem was akin-ish to the Parthenon area now.
Great guest post!
https://ehrmanblog.org/when-paul-says-israel-does-he-mean-the-jews-guest-post-by-jason-staples/
Tribe of David enters thru the *northernmost* point, yeah? Dan. (Dvd basically takes iron technology from the aggressos).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_stele
Mathew 10:34
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”
Luke 22:36
the s-word
I think Y’shua might have ideally wanted to re-take Judah, and dividing from Judah was Plan B
So they’re winning hearts and minds with free food, healthcare, and education.
If Romans are backing the Edomites, who’s backing the Israelites?
Nabataeans
https://ehrmanblog.org/the-conversion-of-paul/
“This description seems to suggest that the “revelation” Paul received occurred in Damascus itself (not on the road there), since he indicates at the end that after his sojourn to Arabia – by which he does not mean the desserts of Saudi Arabia, but the kingdom of the Nabataeans – he ‘returned’ to Damascus.
John the Baptist wearing a camel coat?
Nabataeans
“You are petro and on this Petra I will build my church?
Nabataeans
(The teasing encouragement given to Peter is preceded by an explainer to bumpkins on “turns of phrase,” in Matthew 16:12.)
Magi
Nabataeans
Nabataeans were famous for oofing out Edomites like Herods.
“Represented in the Dead Sea Scrolls are a variety of Aramaic dialects: Official Aramaic, Jewish Palestinian Aramaic, Nabatean, and Christian Palestinian Aramaic”
https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/learn-about-the-scrolls/languages-and-scripts?locale=en_US
(I recognize the Levys choose once less A but I like simple)
Do you think the Qumran Damascus doc might be referring to that?
Good reminder that historicity needs corroboration, like Nicodemus!
If I am watching Star Trek,
and they introduce magicians at the start, in detail,
before the first commercial,
I’m assuming magicians are involved in the plot twist.
So magi – what do we know about ’em?
1. They drink immortality juice daily. ephedra
2. Zoroastrian travelers
3. Fore-tellers. (astrology used for both space and time navigation)
4. Zend-avesta, or Avesta = their holy book. (Vedas and Avesta related, as are Vestal Virgins — aka fore-tellers).
5. Famous in art for bundles of *branches.* (It Ephedra. It’s where we get our magic wands.)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra_(plant)
A hyssop branch hints at Branch Davidian, but what is the symbology for a *magi*?
Branch
Strong’s Hebrew 5342: “From natsar, in the sense of greenness as a striking color”
Hyssop
Ezob in Hebrew and Aramaic, but said
ay-zobe’ with an A in both Aramaic and the za in za’atar.
Atar is the god of holy fire for Zoroastrians. So, these are cooking’herbs.
What is the *magi* legend for cooking’herbs?
Ritual purity is broken because an animal is mistakenly sacrificed instead of wild vegetable matter, and so Zooraster pleads for a god’s intervention so the boy can get into paradise. Not heaven — paradise. pairi-daēza
My summation from 114:
https://books.google.com/books?id=L6-9CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA103&lpg=PA103&dq=zoroastrian+za%27atar&source=bl&ots=-UMD_zyjeP&sig=ACfU3U2RCHs8ror_3g4-c8h2xrfxwbTgfg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjymMe2ga_zAhWSKH0KHRhYCvsQ6AF6BAguEAI#v=onepage&q=zoroastrian%20za'atar&f=false
Remind you of Qumran criticisms?
More on natsar:
/ts/ = Z in PIE. (There’s Italians who say pitsa pie.)
Nazar-ene.
(Z seems to soften to S with affluence, imo.)
Asa means *truth* in the Avestan.
Aza- are the lowest-class of Zoroastrian nobility; travelers who become Arabiacized, Semiticized; maybe Nazarene-icized?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azadan.
(like the Yiddishy Ashkenazim via nasi, prince.)
In Aramaic, asa becomes:
hasayyâ — pious
ḥaššayyā — foretellers
āsayyā᾿/᾿āsên — healers
The exonym “Essene” could happen with that a-to-e vowel shift, like ezov from ay-zobe’.
https://www.ceeol.com/search/article-detail?id=464942
Were First Century Jewish elites Edomites who would not know Zoroastrian myths?
Essenes per Philo, §75: ου ζωα καταθυοντες [= not sacrificing animals]
Jerusalem Edomites per Internet: animal sacrifice
(animal = mammal, maybe.)
imma try to *answer* 2 qs:
https://ehrmanblog.org/why-does-matthew-have-the-story-of-the-wise-men/
B1: How does a star stop over a house?
Imo, it’s a planet via garbled Persian-to-witnesses-to-apostle translation.
Apparent motion of planets are straight lines — and its path crosses an Essene village.
B2: If it’s true that Joseph took Mary and Jesus and whisked them away to Egypt (a rather long walk; it’s 460 miles or so…
Qumran has a donkey stable, but Essenes are provided for locally, so could even be horse and cart. Qumran text fragments are in Cairo, Egypt
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_Document
Athenodorus of *Tarsus* 😮visits Petra in AD 27 —
1. “This king was “so democratic”, he said, that during public banquets, “in addition to serving himself, he sometimes even serves the rest himself in his turn”.
Mark 9:35
“Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, ‘Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all.'”
2. He observed that Nabataeans did not indulge in litigation, but instead it was the foreigners within Petra.
Matthew 5:25
“Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court…”
3. He said they reportedly fined anyone who had diminished his possessions, and conferred honors on anyone who had increased.
Matthew 13:12
“Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.”
What would be your take on paying tribute keeping the peace?
Petra was so multi-culti. In that era they have:
Hellenicized art with lots of geometry (Neopythagorean, no-brainer)
and
Achaemenid Persianicized tombs (Zoorastrian-ish) with a Northern Aramaic script:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4629596
Jodi Magness cites a thesis that finds the same pottery (& coins) in Qumran, Masala, and *dances* Petra! Last night, I saw Masala-Petra is just ~60 miles:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/27805147
what’s my prize what did I win 😸
So, “Luke” names Mary Magdalene in that. Magdalena is a small-fish processing town.
Mark 8:7
“They had a few small fish…”
I know your take is always-evolving, Bart.
Do you think a small-fish connection + the ~4,000 food vessels at Qumran might explain some miracles?
https://www.deseret.com/2017/4/28/20611226/processing-fish-and-calling-apostles-on-the-sea-of-galilee
It becomes less of a leap then to think that the roots and minerals Essenes seek as cures in Josephus War 2,4 might be related.
After deep-diving the Dead Sea Scrolls this week (I am thiiis close to buying a book), I am even clearer that the yahad see themselves as *channelers.*
Humans who can embody angels. Why? So angels can do good *actions*!
https://bibleinterp.arizona.edu/articles/claiming-israels-angels-their-own-angelic-realm-and-religious-identity-qumran-sect
“The writer boasts that God has brought the sect into a ‘common lot with the angels of [the] presence, without an intermediary between them’ [1QHa XIV 16]”
4Q285
the Branch of David. They will enter into judgment with […
] and they will put to death the Prince of the Congregation, the Bran[ch of David …] and with woundings
I don’t think *actions* behind miracles would be considered disingenuous to Jesus’ in-group. Even a proto “Passion Play,” if they believed in spiritual re-embodyment — like Elijah being John the Baptist.
It’s the *scribes* that increasingly embellish.
So, magi:
Nabataeans of Iraq spoke Aramaic *and also *carried the magi Zoroaster religion,* among others. Famous for their trade in:
frankincense and myrrh, from Petra:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabataeans_of_Iraq
Iraq Nabataeans were made distinct by medieval historians from other Nabataeans. (I’m guessing Arabicized ones.)
“Nabati” is an Arabic adjective meaning plant-eaters, so I’m guessing they were pastoralists in the sense of herding for dairy.
Also famous for the fastest *horses* in the woooorld at that time!! Why would magi need camels for Galilee?
https://www.npr.org/2012/12/25/168010065/dig-finds-evidence-of-pre-jesus-bethlehem
Relatedly, Matthew 19:24 should mean “rope,” not camel. He’s talking to *net-making* fishermen, who otherwise call Jesus out when he says something they don’t understand.
North: Nabataeans, Samaritans, and the “…lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24)
South: Herod the “Eh” Edomite in the Kingdom of Judah
Do you think the Parable of the Good Samaritan could be chosen by “Luke” to be a message of *regional* alignment, like the Qumran Essenes are?
1 Kings 11:26, *Nebat* rebels against Solomon — and you know how plants are greater than Solomon’s treasures.
Magi might also explain how Steppe peoples combined with Anatolians (first farmer/herders):
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/646319/a-short-history-of-humanity-by-johannes-krause-and-thomas-trappe/
Essenes and Nazarenes seem hard at work to make fore-tellings (plans) come true, so I wouldn’t assume Baby Jesus was *passively* discovered by magicians.
Miracles: A How-to Guide
“Not only does Jesus become increasingly miraculous…”
https://ehrmanblog.org/jesus-and-his-miracles-some-interesting-features/
I learned about Markian priority from your books! You prolly pointed out that Jesus doesn’t call them miracles.
John 6:29 “Jesus answered, saying to them, “This is the work [ergon] that God requires, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
When asked for a sign on the spot, he refuses 👀
Do you think Jesus thought his work would be better understood in a future age?
Walking On Water
2013 — a 30-meter-long, man-made pile of unhewn rock discovered in the Sea of Galilee. It perched on by birds.
Dated to ~3rd Century BCE. It was probably, prooobaaaaaably more intact 2k years ago.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1095-9270.12005
Star of Bethlehem
2017 — Q4318 is deciphered. Dated to late BCE-Early CE.
Its solar 364-day calendar intercalculates with a 360-degree Zodiac:
https://www.academia.edu/1897899/4Q318_A_Jewish_Zodiac_Calendar_at_Qumran
Miracle Catch
John 21:11
“…It was full of large fish, 153…”
(It’s like you’d need fishermen to witness these. Josephus says Essenes have none).
“The Essenes also, as we call a sect of ours, were excused from this imposition. These men live the same kind of life as do those whom the Greeks call Pythagoreans…”–
Antiquity of the Jews, Josephus 15.370-15.372
153 = Vesica Pisces. Neopythagoreanism is hot in 1rst Century BCE-1rst Century CE!
Pythagoras believes in
reincarnation
Miracles: A How-to Guide
“Not only does Jesus become increasingly miraculous…”
https://ehrmanblog.org/jesus-and-his-miracles-some-interesting-features/
I learned about Markian Priority from your books! You prolly pointed out that Jesus doesn’t call them miracles.
John 6:29 “Jesus answered, saying to them, “This is the work [ergon] that God requires, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
When asked for a sign on the spot, he refuses 👀
Do you think Jesus thought his work would be better understood in a future age?
Walking On Water
2013 — a 30-meter-long, man-made pile of unhewn rock discovered in the Sea of Galilee. It perched on by birds.
Dated to ~3rd Century BCE. It was probably, prooobaaaaaably more intact 2k years ago:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1095-9270.12005
Star of Bethlehem
2017 — Q4318 is deciphered. Dated to late BCE-Early CE.
Its solar 364-day calendar intercalculates with a 360-degree Zodiac:
https://www.academia.edu/1897899/4Q318_A_Jewish_Zodiac_Calendar_at_Qumran
Miracle Catch
John 21:11
“…It was full of large fish, 153…”
(It’s like you’d need fishermen to witness these. Josephus says Essenes have none)
“The Essenes also, as we call a sect of ours, were excused from this imposition. These men live the same kind of life as do those whom the Greeks call Pythagoreans…”–
AJ, Josephus 15.370-15.372
153 = Vesica Pisces. Neopythagoreanism is hot in 1rst Century BCE-1rst Century CE!
Pythagoras believes in
reincarnation
Hi Dr. Ehrman! I am soooo not trying to spam, I just cannot find anything on this.
So the DSS (Essenes, likely) laud King Cyrus of the Archimedean Empire.
And are against Babylon, etc, in the New Jerusalem scroll.
Pharisees like Hillel the Elder, Sanhedrin president (who co-partnered with Menahem the Essene until his resignation) — are from Babylon.
Could it be 3 vying for Israel — Rome v Babylon v tiny, Archimedean-ized Nabatea, Petra?
And Pharisees have a resurrection story, too —
Yohanan ben Zakkai
VP of the Sanhedrin 40-80 CE
Avoth deRabbi Nathan (version B, chapter 4:5)
AD 70
“They carried the coffin as he laid in it until sunset, until they stopped at the gates of Jerusalem’s walls. The porters at the gates enquired who it was that had died.
They answered them: ‘It’s a dead man, as if you did not know that we’re not permitted to let a corpse remain within Jerusalem overnight!’
The porters replied: ‘If it’s a dead man, remove him.’ They then removed him, and remained with him until the sun had set, which, by that time, they had reached Vespasian. They opened up the coffin and he stood up before him.”
Have you found good explanations of that similarity?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yohanan_ben_Zakkai
I believe you are giving the dates of the rabbis, not the dates of teh sources that tell us about the rabbis. That’s teh big problem with rabbinic literature. For the past 50 years it has been recognized as claiming that earlier rabbis held views and said that they almost certainly didn’t
Dr Ehrman do think there is any connection between the Essenes’ view that there would be a priestly Messiah such as found in the Damascus document with the views of the author of Hebrews who wrote about Jesus as a high priest?
IT’s a great questoin and hard to say. If there is a connection, it’s even hard to say there’s a direct dependence, since the author of Hebrews lived outside Israel and was almost certainly not connected wiht the Essenes, who were wiped out years before he wrote.