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Loading...Here’s a topic I haven’t discussed in a while! Just about every thinking human being in our context has heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls, even if they have no clue what the scrolls are, what they contain, and how they were found. And it’s no surprise they’ve heard of them. The Dead Sea Scrolls are by virtual consensus the most significant manuscript discovery of the twentieth century, of major importance for understanding Judaism at the time of Jesus and, in some respects, the teachings of Jesus himself.
Here is what I say about the scrolls in my New Testament textbook. I begin by talking about the Jewish group widely thought to have been responsible for producing, using, and eventually hiding the scrolls — which remained hidden from 70 CE until 1947! The group is called the Essenes.
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The Essenes are the one Jewish sect not explicitly mentioned in the New Testament. Ironically, they are also the group about which we are best informed. This is because …
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Why were these script copiers more accurate than NT script writers? Or were they?
The writers of the Dead Sea Scrolls? We don’t know if they were, since we don’t have earlier copies of their works to compare them to.
“It appears that when the Jewish war of 66-73 CE began, the Essenes at Qumran hid some of their sacred writings before joining in the struggle.”
Did the Qumran Essenes join the revolt elsewhere (Jerusalem?), or did they fight at Qumran? I always assumed they were slaughtered by the Romans at Qumran.
On another, but related, matter – last year (https://ehrmanblog.org/a-new-genre-in-jewish-antiquity-the-apocalypse/) I asked what you made of Boccaccini’s proposal over Enochic Judaism (and it’s origin from Qumran), and you responded “I don’t know what I think about Enochic Judaism.” Is that still the case?
I ask, as I wonder how much of late 2nd Judaism owes a debt to Enochic Judaism, especially the realignment in Jewish thinking over the cause of suffering (instead of God being the cause of human suffering, the fallen angels who run amock are responsible). We see, especially in Mark’s gospel, many unclean spirits causing illness amongst the population. Perhaps this was the dominant view at the time? Demonology being the fashionable theory over why so many suffer? Interestingly GJohn doesn’t seem to agree.
It’s usually thought they were attacked at Qumran.
Yup, pretty much. I’ve studied the books of Enoch, but have not done any work on the social history of the community.
Do you have any writings on the Books of Enoch? I’ve recently stumbled upon them and was curious if they were a “Jewish retelling” of Sumerian myths. I’m out of my element here, but find these books at least to be entertaining.
Nope, I’m afraid not. I’d suggest you look at Nickelsburg’s books/commentaries.
I know some scholars and historians, claim the Qumran site was a pottery factory, and the scrolls were a cache rescued from the destruction of the temple and have nothing to with the Essenes. The basis for their claim is there are many different styles of writing on the scrolls, more than what would be expected from a small community. Not being an expert myself, I’d like to know your thoughts on that claim.
The standard view is that some of the scrolls were produced at Qumran but others were brought into the community by people coming to live there (e.g., from Jerusalem). So there would naturally be different writing styles.
What are your thoughts on the claims from archeologists that Qumram was a pottery factory and had no relationship to the Essenes?
I”d say it’s a small minority view and not one that I’ve ever found convincing. If you want to read further on the community, you might read my colleague Jodi Magness’s book on The Archaeology of Qumran and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
I’ve read Dr Magness’s book on Masada and found it very informative. I’ve just ordered a copy of the book you suggested and look forward to reading it. As far as the claims regarding Qumram not having any connections to the Essenes, I’m on the fence myself. However Dr Yizhak Magen and Dr Yuval Peleg of the Israeli Antiquities Authority have some very compelling evidence to support that.
Could these “impurities in the Jewish Temple” be a belief they shared with Jesus and that’s why he prophesied that the Temple would be destroyed?
They are very similar, yes; but that wouldn’t mean that one of them got them from the other — it would mean that various folk or groups had similar views.
Is it true that the Essenes hoped that the Temple would be purified, rather than destroyed, as predicted by Jesus?
Hmmm… Off hand I don’t remember — and I don’t have my books with me! Do you know what passage you have in mind?
I’ve had a brief search and I’ve come across this Wikipedia entry on the Temple Scroll that discusses a greater form of purity at the temple: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Scroll#Purity_in_the_Temple_Scroll
It seems the Essenes believed that worship at the temple was imperfect and impure, and they demanded a greater degree of purity. They seem to be especially hung up on when men ejaculate!!
I’m interested in this view (temple purity, not when men have a happy ending) as this seems to be one of the big dividing lines between Jesus and the Essenes. Whilst the Essenes looked forward to a day where they could worship at the temple in purity and perfection, Jesus thought the whole thing would come tumbling down soon. I wonder, was Jesus unique in this belief concerning the 2nd temple? Or were other Jews also predicting the 2nd temple would be destroyed?
Oh, yes, most ascetics throughout history have been hung up on ejaculation. As to the temple, part of what I do know is in today’s post.
Lev: “Is it true that the Essenes hoped that the Temple would be purified, rather than destroyed, as predicted by Jesus?”
Perhaps some did, but I think at least some of those who lived at Qumran expected the current temple to be destroyed and a new one to be built. See, for example, the Letter of Enoch (4Q212 f1iv:15-18):
15 And after it shall come an eighth week, one of righteousness, in which [a sword] shall be given 16 to all the righteous to execute true judgment on all the wicked, 17 and the wicked will be delivered into their hands. When it is over, they will acquire possessions righteously, 18 and a great temple of [ki]n[g]ship will be built [ויתבנא היכל [מ]ל֯[כ]וׄת רבא] in majestic splendor to endure for eternal generations.
Ah, perfect!! Thanks. I hope that, unlike me, you had that memorized. 🙂
Very interesting – many thanks Robert.
I wonder – did the Essenes believe that the temple would be destroyed by their enemies before they rebuilt it, or did they envisage themselves (or maybe God?) rebuilding the temple without it being destroyed first in some violent and hostile action?
It may seem like a subtle difference, but it could be the difference between a newspaper editor looking at an article thinking “This is no good at all, this needs re-writing” to “this is a good start, but it needs improving”.
Bart: “Ah, perfect!! Thanks. I hope that, unlike me, you had that memorized. ????”
At my age, nothing is memorized. πάντα μνημονευόμενα ἐν τῷ μνήματι φυλακιζόμενα.
Lev: “Very interesting – many thanks Robert.
I wonder – did the Essenes believe that the temple would be destroyed by their enemies before they rebuilt it, or did they envisage themselves (or maybe God?) rebuilding the temple without it being destroyed first in some violent and hostile action?
It may seem like a subtle difference, but it could be the difference between a newspaper editor looking at an article thinking ‘This is no good at all, this needs re-writing’ to ‘this is a good start, but it needs improving’.”
Impossible to say. The quotation from the Letter of Enoch is the only pertinent reference I’m aware of and it just does not give enough detail or context to say much more. It wouldn’t have been destroyed by their enemies, the current temple leadership, but it could be destroyed by their enemies, the gentile forces opposed to God. Or it could simply be acquired through military victory by the Sons of Light and their angelic warriors, demolished, and rebuilt according to the new extra-biblical plan envisaged in the Temple Scroll, where there is no place for gentile participation in the worship of God. Not very ecumenical, these guys.
If they thought they were going into the final battle before the coming of the Messiahs, why the need to preserve their writings, hidden away? Surely the priestly messiah could lead them in proper worship without consulting their books. Any hint that they were like modern millennialists in that they thought there would be a period of tribulation before the kingdom was finally established? Perhaps preserving their writings for use during such a period?
Great question. Unfortunately we don’t know the answer!
Have you posted about the teacher of righteousness? I was wondering so I can read it. Did they have something to do with one cup sort of thing? I cannot remember if they did or not. I may be wrong.
No, I don’t believe I have.
A while back you made a post in which you gave a brief description of every book in the NT, i was wondering where i could find that?
It’s here: https://ehrmanblog.org/a-synopsis-of-each-new-testament-book/
“[Jesus] too believed that the end of time was near, and that people had to prepare for the coming onslaught.”
Did Jesus get his views from Essenes or can we know? (interesting that “love your neighbor but hate your enemy” is not in the Torah but in 1QRuleOfCommunity except with sons of light/darkness) Also was curious if this could be used to rule out apologetic explanations of Matthew 10:23 such as this:
(1) When Jehovah providentially sent the Babylonians to ravage the southern kingdom of Judah, Isaiah depicted the event as an invasion of the Lord himself (Isa. 13:2-5).
(2) Christ warned the erring churches of Ephesus and Pergamum that if they did not mend their rebellious ways, he would “come” and bring punishment upon them (Rev. 2:5, 16).
(3) God warned the Jews that he would send “his armies” to destroy those who murdered his Son, and cause their city to be burned (Mt. 22:7); this was to be accomplished by the Roman invasion.And it was represented as a “coming” of the Son of man in power and great glory (Mt. 24:30, 34; cf. Lk. 21:27, 32).For further consideration of this matter, see: “A Study of Matthew Twenty-Four”, elsewhere on this site.
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/668-what-is-the-meaning-of-matthew-10-23
I think not. I’ve posted on this before. Maybe I’ll do so again!
It is now believed that the book of Esther was also found among the scrolls:
https://www.thetorah.com/article/newly-deciphered-qumran-scroll-revealed-to-be-megillat-esther
Uh, I believe that’s satire, no?
And FUNNY!
I remember reading somewhere that a pretty close version of the Sermon on the Mount was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls (the “sectually explicit” ones?) and that, according to the consensus about their dating… that would mean that it pre-dates Jesus… and was borrowed by New Testament writers. My question is, is my memory on that even close to accurate and if so, what are the specifics?
No, I don’t think so!
I’m two for two on not having any specific references for my questions. Sorry. Perhaps it wasn’t the Sermon on the Mount… but some other NT passage… but from your quick and direct dismissal I’m guessing you aren’t aware of anything from any of the DSS texts that is also found in the NT. Fair enough. If I find a real reference in the not-too-distant future, I’ll ask again.
A quick web search later… and I found this: https://www.bible.ca/manuscripts/bible-manuscripts-dss-dead-sea-scrolls-4Q525-Beatitudes-Jesus-Matthew5-blessed-recognizable-format-structure-8short-1long-50bc.htm That’s probably what I was remembering poorly.
Over the weekend I subscribed to The Great Courses Plus just for a 12-hour Dead Sea Scrolls course by Rendsburg. His pie-chart in the intro was informative… number of scrolls (930), languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek), and categories (Bible, Sectarian, non-Sectarian, Unidentified). One lecture covered alternative theories… including Barbara Thiering. I recall reading one of Barbara’s books in the early 90s. She disagreed with the DSS dating and believed that Jesus was born, lived and crucified in the Qumran / Essene community. I know she was mistaken but I really enjoyed her practical explanations of New Testament miracles using her Pesher method. So what are those plural and singular references to Jerusalem about in the NT Greek?
Yes, to say her views are generally discounted would be to put it rather mildly. But I’m not sure what references you’re referring to.
Sorry, I don’t have any real specifics for you at this time as it has been a while since I read Barbara’s book and I don’t have a copy handy to reference. I just recall Barbara referring to NT Greek saying there was a passage where someone (Paul?) left Jerusalem, traveled for a while, and arrived at Jerusalem… and that the Greek references for Jerusalem… one was singular and the other was plural… and her explanation was that one was the real Jerusalem and the other was Qumran… as her claim was that the Essene community had basically created Qumran as a replacement Israel… with the design / layout of Qumran (buildings, etc) matching what they had abandoned. I know, that’s not something you are interested in entertaining as it is too “out there”. Again, I don’t believe it, but I find it very interesting.
Prof Ehrman,
Thanks again for the time.
From this statement – “We can therefore check to see whether Jewish scribes over the intervening centuries reliably copied their texts; the short answer is that, for the most part, they did”
How well copied were these relative to the Gospels?
And please which of the Jewish sects would Jesus have most likely belonged to?
The best copies are fantastically better.
Great read! It’s interesting to see some sects of Christianity repeat the same beliefs throughout history. Isolating themselves from the rest of society and the faith due to what they perceive as religious purity. I think of the Amish, Anti-Baptist’s, etc. How accurate was the Dead Sea Isaiah scroll compared to the Septuagint translation? I really wish we would’ve found some NT manuscripts in that Qumran cave.
Bart, I have a question. You said that the scrolls found predate by almost a 1000 years the later Hebrew Bible and have very little change or errors between the two versions. Why then do you think that there have been so many errors in copying books of the New Testament. Were later scribes simply less competent or more careless when they copied manuscripts?
In *some* cases there were not a lot of changes. Why were the NT scribes more careless? They simply didn’t have strict rules of copying upon them….
I see that I wasn’t the only one with a similar question. Is this an example of great minds thinking alike??LoL
Dr Ehrman, I won’t ask about Zeus. I was wondering if you could tell me what *1 Samuel 5:2* is talking about? Maybe some of your members does not know either…
Also, Luke 9:29 (lightning) Rev 4:5 (lightning) Matthew 28:3 (lightning). The anicients all mentioned lightning… Why? Was it inspired by the Greek religion and Zeus. Everyone knows that lightning is associated with Zeus. Just curious. I am not Christian but very interested in Christanity as you already know.
You will need to quote 1 Sam 5:2 and then ask the question — and indicate what about the verse you would like to understand — so readers will know what you are asking about.
Lightening was a common theme because it “came from heaven” and was frightening and sometimes devastating.
I am slightly attracted to the minority view that the scrolls were Sadducean in origin (eg. Lawrence Schiffman’s work) not least because it would give us our only texts from that group. The arguments can be convoluted but I think in essence Schiffman is saying that the Qumran sect were a breakaway group and that the QMMT scroll, which he claims is a sort of sectarian foundational document, is consistent with what we know of Sadducean beliefs.
In his recent, excellent book on John the Baptist, Joel Marcus speculates about a possible direct relationship between John the B and the Essene community. I know from your comments that you don’t think Jesus had such a direct relationship but what about John? What is your take?
thanks
Yeah, I’m afraid I don’t agree with him. Too many differences between them in outlook and practice. My view is that hthre were lots of groups/individuals like this around, so when we happen to learn about one, that doesn’t mean they were connected with another that we happen to know about. But you’re right, it’s an excellent book, by a superb scholar.
Is it thought that John the Baptist was part of the Essenes group, that he left to form a ministry and preach regarding the coming apocalypse?
By some people. Joel Marcus argues that in his recent book on John the Baptist. But I’m afraid I don’t agree with him on the point. Too many differences between them in outlook and practice. My view is that hthre were lots of groups/individuals like this around, so when we happen to learn about one, that doesn’t mean they were connected with another that we happen to know about. But it’s an excellent book, by a superb scholar
There has been preaching about the end of time since the beginning of time. Why is this subject made so popular? Follow the money.
I’d say 99% of the time it didn’t involve money. Until, basically, the 1970s.
Is there anything in the Bible that says that a prayer helps the dead or yourself if you pray for help from God?
The Bible frequently says prayer can help *you*, but no, not those who were already dead.
Could John the Baptist have been an Essene?
Joel Marcus argues that in his recent book on John the Baptist. But I’m afraid I don’t agree with him on the point. Too many differences between them in outlook and practice. My view is that hthre were lots of groups/individuals like this around, so when we happen to learn about one, that doesn’t mean they were connected with another that we happen to know about. But it’s an excellent book, by a superb scholar
Dr. Ehrman
These scrolls were scurried away into hiding, obviously because their owners feared they would be destroyed. Yet, at this very time, the Gospel of Mark was written, copied, and distributed throughout the Empire. How do you make sense of that?
Mark wasn’t caught up in a rebellion against Rome with the legions marching against his community. In any event, it’s not clear how widely Mark was disseminated in the first couple of decades.
Dr. Ehrman
Wouldn’t verses like Mark 15:15 also have made the Gospel of Mark more popular, as it portrayed the Roman governor striving to save Jesus while the Jews insisted that he be crucified? Later Gospels strengthen this point even further. But, doesn’t this text show the Roman loyalists (the majority) that the Greco-Roman people were on the right side?
Also, what about Paul’s account in Acts where he is threatened because this new movement is threatening the makers of the gods?
I suppose it would be more popular among people who agreed with those views, yes.
> The [Essenes] did so fully expecting the apocalypse of the end of time to be imminent.
> Jesus appears to have shared many of the Essenes’ apocalyptic views,
Is there any discussion by the Essenes or in Dead Sea Scrolls on ‘the resurrection’. specifically commentaries to know whether they considered the resurrection to be literal or figurative?
It is rarely (or never explicitly) mentioned direcdtly in the Scrolls.
Did the Essenes and/or the Dead Sea Scrolls believe in or refer to an afterlife similar to Heaven and Hell? What did they believe would happen after evil was overthrown?
They apparently beleived God would bring in a new order on earth.
“But we know from other ancient authors such as Josephus that a community of Essenes was located in this area”
Did *Josephus* write about the Qumran area? If so, could you please point me to the passage?
I know Pliny spoke about the “solitary tribe of the Essenes” living near the Dead Sea, but I hadn’t heard of Josephus locating them there.
Now that you mention that, I wonder if I misspoke/misrememberd that. I’m not near my books just now, so don’t know — and don’t know where I got that from.
I also recall from reading Geza Vermes and Wise/Abegg/Cook that while the proto-Masoretic variants do line up well with later MT copies, several substantially different variants were represented among the scrolls … Some that were closer to the Hebrew that must have sourced the LXX, some that were more related to the Samaritan Pentateuch, and a variety of commentaries and other texts containing excerpts from these and perhaps other variants. Basically, while it is often pointed out that the integrity of later MT copying is demonstrably good, the diversity of variants present here seems to me to be noteworthy as well.
Excellent. How tolerant would the Temple authorities be of these people if they were in Jerusalem? Would they be able to openly live and teach? Or would they have had to be “secret” Essenes very much like Jews in some places, at some times in the Middle Ages?
There apparently were Essenes in the big cities; i can’t recall if Josephus places any in Jerusalem or not. There certainly were lots of views represented among Jews in lots of places at the time. Temple authorities were more concerned about the functioning of the Temple than with what every Jewish group was teaching.
“There are also commentaries on some of the biblical books, written principally to show that the predictions of the ancient prophets had come to be fulfilled in the experiences of the Essene believers and in the history of their community.” What predictions were thought to be fulfilled?
There’s a whole commentary on habbakuk, e.g., that goes verse by verse to show how it is being fulfilled. They are verses that you would never suspect were predictins of things yet to happen in the days of Rome. (Just as Xns today quote verses that were never meant as prophetcies.)
Speaking of a priestly messiah, I’ve toyed with the idea of Jesus actually being fathered by Zechariah, whom Mary visited immediately after the Annunciation. A priestly lineage would qualify Jesus as the Messiah son of Aaron [except that Zechariah didn’t marry her]. This could also shed led light on the money changers episode – a signal to the Essenes, who wanted to purify the Temple, that Jesus was their man?
Bart, how widespread was the idea of two messiahs? One can infer it from Zech [4.14] with the two Olive Trees representing the “two who are anointed to serve the Lord of all the earth.” Are there references to a messiah son of Aaron outside of the Qumran literature for 1st c. Judaism?
Possibly. But it’s impossible to know how widely spread it was.
Dr. Ehrman, do you think you could beat the late Father Raymond Brown in a debate? Or, how about your mentor, Dr. Bruce Metzger? Just curious… They were both more learned than me.
COMPLETELY depends on what the debate was about. But as with most debates, the supporters of one side or the other would be convinced their guy won!
Understood. Every place that lightning struck, belonged to Jupiter according to the Romans. Jupiter was the chief God of thr Roman state. Lightning was associated with the Father Zeus. I do believe some inspiration came from Juptier. He did have a temper after all, along with Poseidon. He was the best and the greatest. Jupiter Optimus Maximus I BELIEVE…
Matthew 28:3 New International Version (NIV)
3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow
I am sorry but that sounds like that is inspired by Jupiter. Thank you again Bart. I will make sure to follow your instructions.
Two Essenes’ medieval manuscripts of The Damascus Document dating from the 10th and 12th centuries have been discovered in Cairo 1896-97. How is that possible? Did some Essenes group survived in Egypt and kept making copies of the doctrines and rules after Qumran’s destruction? Could these have been the Therapeutae that Philo mentions being related to Essenes?
It’s for the same reason that Plato’s dialogues were copied in teh middle ages — not because they were copied by Platonists but by people who thought it would be worth while preserving them. (The people who produced my most recent book were not among my followers, if you see what I mean)
Sorry, I’m not convinced. To my knowledge persons who copied Plato’s writings were devoted platonists like Gemistus Pletho in Constantinople and the The Medici Circle in Florence and were even considered heretics by the Church. Book publishers print books because there is market for them, not to preserve thoughts. As Jews completely rejected some other books like The Book of Enoch and simply didn’t copy them, The Damascus Document must have had some value for the copyists.
Oh, yes, there were certainly devotees of Plato around. That’s why there was a limited market. But not everyone who copies or reads Plato is s devotee, and Gemistus Plethos was not spending months slaving over making copies himself, I would assume.
I would have assumed that manuscripts were copied for two reasons:
1. copyist had interest in the text
2. copyist was paid by someone who had interest in the text
But I have to take your word for it that manuscripts were copied for other reasons too.
Was the author of Revelation an Essene? The idea of an antichrist and evil priest defiling the temple as well as the battle of Armageddon before God intervenes and brings forth his final judgment sound a lot like Essene ideas you mention above
No, nothing suggests he was. He was definitely a follower of Jesus, and we don’t know of any Essenes who were followers of Jesus. And he was living long after we last here of Essenes, so I’m not sure any were around in his time.
Please note that we allow only three comments a day! For my religous pilgrimmage, see my books Jesus Interrupted and God’s Problem.
I apologize in advance I don’t have access to my library so am relying on recall. My question revolves around the Book of Mary Magdalene in your book The Dead Sea Scrolls. In that book Jesus tells Mary the mind is between the soul and the spirit, and the Apostles ultimately reject what Jesus revealed to her. This seems to me to be profound and the rejection of it (possibly because the info was given to Magdalene and how they judged her) has resulted in grossly skewed branches of Christianity that reject the mind and higher education itself. Do you or anyone else have any comments with regard to this?
I haven’t written a book on the Dead Sea Scrolls. I can’t recall if I’ve written on the blog about the Gospel of Mary — but even if I have, I should do it again!