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Loading...Have you ever wondered why fundamentalists are adamant Zionists? (Did you know they were and historically always have been?) It seems to outsiders a bizarre mystery: you love Israel but you hate Jews? Well, OK, you say you love Jews, but how exactly do you show it? By supporting Israel, I guess. But Israel is a nation and the Jews are individual people, most of whom have nothing to do with the state of Israel, at least directly. And even if you do love individual Jews, let’s be realistic here: you think that even though God is in favor of Israel, all the Jews will be going straight to hell. What’s that all about?
Many fundamentalists, of course, believe that Jews in the end will be saved. But not while remaining faithful Jews. They will convert to become followers of Jesus. So they will be saved as Christians, not as Jews. Those who don’t convert, even the heroes of modern-day Israel, well… sorry..
If God is opposed to non-Christian Jews, why is he pro-non-Christian Israel? And, apart from that theological question, why are fundamentalists? That’s a historical question and actually has a historical answer, which happens to be based on the Bible. I won’t give the full story here, but I will tell the rather odd and almost entirely unknown origin of it.
This is something I’ll be talking about in my book on the Apocalypse of John, currently under construction. Here’s a draft of a bit of it.
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The Christian interest in the modern state of Israel – strongly expressed in the American evangelical population still today – has its roots in the first decades of the 19th century in a rather serendipitous course of events involving a little-known figure named Lewis Way (1772-1840). Way was an impoverished barrister who, like many others, had trouble finding clients; his little-used office was in the Inner Temple in London. In October of 1799, an unrelated
This is an intriguing story with real historical significance. If you join the blog you can read it — along with four other posts, each and every week. So why not join? Every penny of your small membership fee goes to charity. Click here for membership options
Do we have any idea if the psalms in Psalms attributed to David are by the same person? Using the same methods we use to determine what epistles are written by Paul?
They appear to have been written at different times by different people. Even the famous Psalm 23 cannot be by David, “I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever” — the temple was not built until after David’s death.
Off topic Bart. I just want to wish you and your family a wonderful Thanksgiving. We all have so much to be thankful for. Among other things I am thankful that I can learn all sorts of stuff from your blog. Keep up the good work.
I thought this was going to be a depressing post, given the subject matter, but I found it absolutely fascinating, particularly the ‘two Ways’ part. I’m a National Trust member so I must visit A La Ronde sometime.
That tale is worth it for the headline pun alone!
You might want to check this article from the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/22/opinion/israel-arkansas-bds-pledge.html?searchResultPosition=1
It quotes the former Arkansas senate majority leader:
“There is going to be certain things that happen in Israel before Christ returns. There will be famines and disease and war. And the Jewish people are going to go back to their homeland. At that point Jesus Christ will come back to the earth.” He added, “Anybody, Jewish or not Jewish, that doesn’t accept Christ, in my opinion, will end up going to hell.” Senator Hester and his coreligionists may see the anti-boycott law as a way to support Israel, whose return to its biblical borders, according to their reading of scripture, is one of the precursors to the Second Coming and Armageddon.
This is very much an ongoing problem.
For what it’s worth, http://jsbookreader.blogspot.com/2011/12/oaks-of-la-ronde.html claims that the story of the oaks of A La Ronde in the will is apocryphal. (Yeah, source is a blog, but it’s quoting old dead tree books.) Obviously still likely that Way and the Parminters had an inspiring chat on Christian Zionism, of course.
Very intersting. I’m not sure how to unravel the mystery. I was relying on the only decent biography of Lewis Way out shtere, by Stanley and Munro Price. Maybe I’ll try to track them down.
I don’t remember who said it but I once heard “it’s a 3 act play and Christians needs Jews to get to the third act even though the Jews aren’t in the third act.” I always though that a good analogy.
I hope you and your family have a Happy Thanksgiving. Among many things, I am thankful for your books, Great courses, youtube videos, and website. They literally changed my life.
Fascinating stuff. I live very close to the headquarters of an organization called the “Friends of Israel,” who are dedicated to this very thing: On the one hand standing against anti-semitism, yet on the other believing that unless Jews convert they will be eternally damned. IMO, it’s a pretty backhanded way to patronize a people you fully intend to convert or see burn in hell.
Jesus said the temple will be torn down (Mark 13:1-2, and Matt. and Luke). When he talked about the temple being raised up he was talking about his own body per John 2. I assume such passages don’t deter those who expect the temple to be rebuilt in Jerusalem in the end times? I’ve never understood that, since there is no need for sacrifices or a high priest in Christian theology, so why would God or Christians want to rebuild the temple?
So the Antichrist can go into it to declare himself God, apparently!
Hi Dr Ehrman!
So for a history project that I’m doing, I’ve landed on the topic of “how was the canon of the New Testament formed”
A couple of sources that I’m planning on using are:
Misquoting Jesus
Your introduction to the New Testament textbook
Bruce Metzger’s book on the canon
Could you recommend any other sources that would be useful? (Lectures or books or anything)
Thank you so much!!
Of my books I’d say “Lost Christianities” would be the most useful (more than Misquoting Jesus). You might also consider Harry Gambles book on the Canon.
Mr. Ehrman, something almost totally unrelated. I’m studying the letter to Galatians, and I’ve stumble upon 3:17, where Paul mentions something about the Law and 430 years. I’m looking it up on Google, but all I can find is sites like “defendinginerrancy” etc. And obviously I don’t want the interpretation filtered through sophisticated theology. I would like to know what intellectually honest people think about this, such as serious unbiased scholars. Can you please explain to me what is this “ὁ μετὰ ἔτη τετρακόσια καὶ τριάκοντα γεγονὼς νόμος” (“the Law that was introduced 430 years later” [of course, Mr. Ehrman, no offence, the translation is put for normal english speaking people who don’t know ancient Greek!]) all about? Because I’m studying carefully taking notes, and I can’t continue, if I don’t understand this. (Sorry for the extent.)
He is referring to the amount of time between Abraham and the giving of the law under Moses, and is actually relying on Exodus 12:40. (It doesn’t exactly work because Israel went to Egypt under Abraham’s grandson Jacob, but still….) For this kind of thing I’d strongly recommend you get a good, scholarly annotated Bible, such as the Harper Collins Study Bible.
This speaks to one of the questions I’ve long had about Jesus’s and Paul’s understanding of the end of the evil age. Is there anything humans can do to speed things along, or must they wait until it happens? If the latter, what’s the point of being a supporter of Israel? Isn’t God going to decide on his own, regardless of what we do?
Some Christians say yes, others say no. My view is that if the end comes soon, it will certainly be because we’ve mucked it up badly and sped it along….
I’m glad you are going into depth on this. I believe, though, that some Jews are not Zionist, and object that the state of Israel can’t be legitimate because it wasn’t created by a Messiah. I suppose among modern messianic Jews, the modern state of Israel is something of an anomaly. There is the state, but where is the messiah? He must be coming quickly, at any time!
If I may . . . Ever since the Bar Kochba revolt (123-35 CE), rabbinic thinking has held that God doesn’t want the state (read: kingdom) re-established until the messiah comes. I believe this was largely a matter of acknowledging the reality that the Jews simply didn’t have the military or political wherewithal to accomplish it, and would only hurt themselves if they tried
The modern Zionist movement that started in the late 1800’s was largely a secular one, and explicitly rejected the idea that Jews had to wait for the messiah before they could have their own independent country. The Orthodox rabbis of Europe objected to this position, and some went so far as to blame the Zionists for the Holocaust. To this day there are ultra-Orthodox Jews living in Israel who refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of the secular state even as they accept subsidies from it.
One other observation: these fundamentalist Christians believe Jesus will come (again) after Israel has been established (and destroyed), while the ultra-Orthodox believe that the (“true”) state/kingdom of Israel can only be established by the messiah AFTER he comes (for the first time, of course).
I greatly appreciate your comment! Excellent information, and I’m happy to have it.
Fundamentalists in Europe are unique in their anti-Semitism. Sometime in the early 20th century, that antisemitism found its way into expanding new forms of communications media — newsreels, radio, film. After WW2, the medium of television expanded quickly from broadcast to cable, with CNN debuting about 35 years after the concentration camps were ended (1980). Also present along with CNN were numerous empty channels that soon became populated with fundamentalist televangelists. And the best way for these “spiritual entrepreneurs” to succeed was to lead their followers away from antisemitism. Hence, you will find the most marked distinction between European fundamentalism and American fundamentalism is that in America, fundamentalist Christians are rabid Zionists.
“Many fundamentalists, of course, believe that Jews in the end will be saved. But not while remaining faithful Jews”.
Dear Bart, Paul in Romans advocated the Salvation of Christ-rejecting Jews on the Merit of the Fathers, just like Christians would be saved on the Merit of the Vicarious Crucifixion (and Curse-Bearing Gal.3.13) of Christ.
How is it possible the parallel Jewish redemption theory held by Paul (which contradicts blatantly Ezekiel, especially chapter 18 but confirms some Talmudic claims) has been ignored by Christians historically?
I do not read Paul’s comments that way. When he says “All Israel will be saved” he decidedly does not say “Jews will be saved even if they continue to reject Christ.” What he actually means, of course, is much debated; in some passages he does appear to say that in the end God will save all humans.
Dr Bart,
Do you think the book of Enoch or at least the ideas of the Book of Enoch influenced Paul’s writing?
I don’t think so — at least I”ve never detectded any evidence of influence.
The “last days restoration of Israel” trope played a large part in my grandparents’ evangelical conversion and, in turn, in mine. The fig tree had blossomed in 1948, so it was said, and this was a miracle, evidence of God’s providential hand in end times history.
But to what extent was Zionist restoration truly a self-fulfilled prophecy catalyzed by evangelical Christians? I’d be interested to know more about the ways in which the church itself played a hand in the re-creation of the State of Israel in Palestine.
What worries me most is that some fundamentalist groups (generally) and others specifically (Tim Lahaye & Hal Lindsey) believe that the Third Temple needs to be rebuilt on the Temple Mount in order to usher in the second coming.
Dr. Ehrman : what do you the think the generation (Generation 2.5: ~66-100) of Christians, that lived through the destruction of the Temple and thought or at least wrote, (generally) that Jesus was supposed to be the new sacrifice and that there was no real need for a temple, would say to these people?
It’s a good question. These Christians, though, are not interested in the Temple as a functioning center of Jewish sacrifice (which they think is pointless or even Satanic); they need the temple only so the antichrist can enter into it in order to fulfill prophecy.
I have read some of Hal Lindsey’s books. It does not seem like the predictions in his books have fared well. It has been a while since Israel was established in 1948. The EU has expanded past ten members. The United States is still a dominant power in the world. How does he explain his prediction failures?
He says that NOW the prophecies are clearly being fulfilled in OUR OWN DAY! Go figure.
Lewis Way should have recognised a Templar connection with the Parminters’ octagonal hall. Maybe he did? The Temple district in London was part of the original Templar estate. All Templar ‘temples’ were octagonal including Temple Church which Way would have been familiar with.
When I was a kid, my friend’s dad was a baptist preacher. He sat us down and explained how the 1968 war was part of gods plan to re-establish Israel for the end times. It was uncomfortable for me. The son is now a preacher at a mega-church and although I haven’t talked to him in years, his social media seems to indicate that he is militant about right-wing politics and mixes that into his work with the church.
Even from a Jewish perspective, the idea of a messiah appearing and establishing a theocratic kingdom makes no sense in the modern world. Who in the world actually wants to live in a theocracy? I somehow doubt that the Israeli government and its supporters would be happy having a “king” overthrow their government and establish a theocratic kingdom! And who actually thinks that rebuilding the temple and then restarting the horrific bloody sacrificial system would be a good thing?! It would be some terrible PR for the Israeli state/kingdom that would be shunned and protested by animal activists throughout the world. It would be even worse than being labeled a colonial apartheid state.
Hi Dr. Ehrman, I’d love to attend the webinar on the Christmas story this Sunday but unfortunately I don’t think I’ll be able to attend it live. Can I still register and get the recording like the webinar you did on how Jesus became God a few weeks back? It’d be much appreciated if I could!
Yup!
Your story of Lewis Way is a true “revelation” to me (sorry!) Is it well know in your circles or, if not, how did you happen to come across it? Thanks!
Nope, I had never heard of it before myself.
Jesus & Paul seemed to preach that the end would come in their own lifetime despite Israel being under Roman control.
1) It seems probable that the Early Christians believed the end would come whether Israel became its own state or not?
2) Are the Fundamentalists misinterpreting the OT verses saying the end would come only if Israel becomes its own state?
1. Yes. It wasn’t an issue for them. 2. Yup, those verses were referring to events in the authors’ own days (return from Babylon, etc.)