How much historical information about Jesus does the Gospel of Mark present? How do you date an ancient manuscript? Why does Mark have a “messianic secret”?
These are among the very good questions I’ve received recently, and here is how I’ve tried to answer them succinctly.
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QUESTION:
How much of the historical Jesus does Mark capture, either purposefully or accidentally?
RESPONSE:
Well, it’s impossible to put a percentage on it. For one thing, if it’s correct that Jesus’ lived for, say, 30-33 years (who knows?), it’s worth noting that Mark’s Gospel takes roughly two hours to read/recite. Necessarily he would have captured only a tiny fraction of the historical Jesus’ life, even if he is 100% accurate.
He’s clearly not 100% accurate, so the question for most historical scholars is not how much of his life does he capture but how accurate is the information that he does give.
That’s impossible to quantify definitively, in no small measure be because different scholars would give different responses (though none of them in a percentage!).
What most agree on is that of the four surviving primary sources, Mark is the oldest, the basis for two of the others, and on balance somewhat more likely to be providing relatively accurate material than the others. None of them can be used on their own, though; as with all historical sources for anything or anyone, they have to be used in combination and in light of each other.
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QUESTION
What is the process of assigning an ancient text to a certain a year? For example, where do you get 375 CE for the earliest text of Matthew? Do the authors write the year? Thanks!
RESPONSE:
I think you’re not asking when the text of Matthew was written (which was 80-85 CE or so) but when the oldest particular manuscript that has a complete copy of Matthew was produced. The two oldest are called Codex Sinaiticus (because it was discovered at St. Catherine’s monastery on Mount Sinai) and Codex Vaticanus (because for centuries it had been kept in the Vatican library. Why do we (I) typically say they date from around 375 CE?
There’s a discipline called “palaeography” (literally “ancient writing”) that dates manuscripts, principally on the basis of handwriting analysis. Since everything in antiquity was written by hand (no photocopiers!); and since the styles of writing in ancient languages changed over the course of decades/generations; and since some (not many!) manuscripts in, say, Greek and Latin have dates attached to them, we can know what handwriting generally looked like in this generation and that. Expert Greek palaeographers can date a manuscript within about 50 years. These two were both probably written somewhere between 350 and 400 CE or so, and so we can say 375 CE, plus or minus 25 years. As you can imagine, different palaeographers come up with different dates for various manuscripts, and while there can be broad consensus sometimes, there is rarely any date that is absolutely definitive.
You can also carbon 14 date the writing material — in this case parchment — but that requires using small pieces of it that are destroyed in the analysis, making it a less preferred method. When used, of course, they take small pieces that don’t have any ink on them! In any event, since it is based measuring the half-life of carbon 14, found in all organic material until it dies, this kind of text can certainly tell you (again) a range of dates within which it appears the the animal whose skin is being used (or the plant that is being used, in the case of papyrus) died, but not when the skin (or plan) was processed into a writing material or when, later, it was written on. Its usually thought that if the animal/plant was killed at a relatively determinable time, it was processed into parchment/papyrus and used as a writing material not long after, but that’s not necessarily always the case.
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QUESTION:
Is the “Messianic Secret” indicative of an oral tradition that Jesus never said he was the Messiah and Mark had to come up with a reason why?
(Quick) RESPONSE:
That’s one of the explanations people have. The way to evaluate it is to see if there are any indications that Jesus did call himself the messiah (that is, historically, apart from the fact that in a Gospel such as Mark he tries to keep it secret).
My sense is that he did tell his disciples, and that’s how the authorities found out about it and crucified him for it. But it wasn’t widely talked about in his life, and Mark may be explaining *that*.
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Hey Bart, Have you always held that Jesus saw himself as a Messiah? I strongly agree with this conclusion (it’s hard to explain away its prevalence in all early Pauline creeds and the gospels) but I didn’t know you actually held to it?
Nope. I of course thought that as an evangelical. From about the time of my PhD until probably 25 years ago or so I did not always think so. what ended up (or at least started) convincing me is that there is no other real way to explain his execution for calling himself king of the Jews (= messiah).
Dear Bart,
Whilst I can find where you’ve dated Papias here on your blog (130-140), I can’t find where you have done so in print. Have you, and if so, where, please?
Many thanks in advance.
Where are you on the idea of a Pauline influence on Mark?
Thanks!
I had a wild thought. What if the author of Mark (“Mark”) privately was skeptical of the resurrection? Perhaps the abrupt ending with only women as witnesses – (who may have been seen as less reliable in that time and place) was a deliberate way to “telegraph” to the readers who could read between the lines that maybe this is all a bit too much to believe.
Hey Bart, I thought I’d ask this question here (let me know if another forum is appropriate). In “Jesus Interupted”, you say “best attested sayings of Jesus found in a number of our independent sources is a prediction that at the coming onslaught, at the end of the age, the Temple itself would be destroyed (Mark 13:2; 14:58; 15:29). The Temple? The center of the worship of the God of Israel? Isn’t that a blasphemous thought?
Some Jews evidently thought so. This is what ended up getting Jesus into trouble.”
Interesting, but isn’t the fact that Jesus predicts the destruction of the Temple in Mark that we can date Mark after CE 70?
I’d say that the fact of a prediction is not compelling evidence that Mark must be after 70 CE, since we have hard evidence from other Jews definitely living before the destruction who predicted it as well. It’s the *way* Jesus predicts it (i.e., the details of what he says) and the fact that later writers so insistently indicated he predicted it that show *these texts* were written after 70 — a very different matter!
The dating of Mark and other gospels is such a fascinating topic. Definitely a controversial one. I am sure many have written extensively about it. I’ve only come across what appear to be summaries of the discussions. Who are some people who deal with the subject matter in greater depth? Thanks, love your work, big fan.
Hi Bart. Seeing that you don’t adhere to this for dating Mark, where do you and how do you interpret the evidence differently? Thank-you in advance.
* Peter established the church in Antioch as its first bishop in
37ad according to the Antiochian Orthodox Church,& Eusebius:History,Bk III,36:2
* In the 2nd year of Claudius(42ad) Peter went to Rome to confront Simon Magus and his heresy
Jerome:Men, #1, Eusebius:History,Bk II,14:1-6
* Peter was put to death by Nero. Nero died June 9,68AD
Jerome:Men,#1, Eusebius:History,Bk II,25:5,
* Mark’s gospel account is the result of Mark taking dictation from Peter
Jerome:IllustriusMen#8, Eusebius:History,Bk II,15:1,2, 16:1, Irenaeus:AgainstHeresies,Bk III,ch1
Origen: Commentary on Matthew,Bk 1, Papias(Eusebius:History,Bk III 39:14,15), Tertullian:Against
Marcion 4:5
* Peter approved Mark’s record and circulated it in Rome prior to Peter’s death
Jerome:Men #8, Eusebius:History,Bk II,15:1,2
* Mark took Peter’s gospel account to Alexandria and established the church there as its first bishop
Jerome:Men #8, Eusebius:History,Bk II,16:1
Mark died the 8th year of Nero, 61ad
* Philo wrote his observations of Mark and the Alexandrian church, and the gospel account that the
church was founded on. Jerome:Men#11, Eusebius:History,Bk II,17:1-12
Philo died 45-50ad, so Mark must have been written before that.
I’d say these comments have no historical evidence to support them; some are rumors from over a century (up to three cneturies!) later nad others just aren’t true. (Philo says nothing about Mark and the Christian church in Alexandria)
Eusebius:EcclesiasticalHistory,Bk.II
15:1….they besought Mark, a follower of Peter….that he would leave them a written monument of the doctrine which had been orally communicated to them. Nor did they cease until they had prevailed with the man, and had thus become the occasion of the written Gospel which bears the name of Mark.
15:2….Peter, when he had learned….of that which had been done, was pleased with the zeal of the men, and that the work obtained the sanction of his authority for the purpose of being used in the churches.
16:1….Mark was the first that was sent to Egypt, and that he proclaimed the Gospel which he had written, and first established churches in Alexandria.
17:11,12….(Philo says),They have also writings of ancient men, who were the founders of their sect, and who left many monuments of the allegorical method….it is highly probable that the works of the ancients, which he says they had, were the Gospels and the writings of the apostles
17:1-9 Phllo writes and comments on the activity and behavior of the Christians in Alexandria
Philo died when? 50AD? According to this, Mark’s gospel existed before Philo’s death.
Doctor, what is it that you find untrue here? HappyNewYear!
The problems involve the dates and reliability of the sources o finformatoin. To put it in modern terms, I’d say that compelling evidence of what happened in the year 1710 is best not found for the first time in 2015, especially if writers from 1780 would have had good reasons to mention it had they known of it. Just on one point: we have extensive writings by Philo — all available in English translation and available to be read. He never once mentions the Christians.
There is by the way, an enormous amount of scholarship available on Eusebius (who is the one mentioning Philo here) and the very real problems with his trustworthiness and accuracy. I’ll have to think about wha would be a good accesible introduction….
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“2oldest are called Codex Sinaiticus: ”
“somewhere between 350 & 400 CE or so, ”
HOW does carbon dating agree or not with these copies of Matthew?
BeagoAi: “… primarily because carbon dating is a destructive process, and these manuscripts are too valuable to risk damaging. Instead, scholars rely on paleography (the study of ancient handwriting) & other historical methods to date these manuscripts.”
They haven’t been carbon dated. If they were, it would still entail a range of dates and in any event would date when the animal was killed whose skin was later processed into a writing material (not when the material was processed and not when it was written upon)