Loading...I am happy to report that I have now, finally, finished my manuscript on the ethics of Jesus and have sent it in to my editor for her to peruse and suggest edits. Phew!! This one seems to have been a “Slow Train Coming.” Huge relief.
I’ve changed the title I’ve been giving it for the past couple of years. I very much liked what I had: “The Origins of Altruism: How the Teachings of Jesus Transformed the Moral Conscience of the West,” but my editors in the end weren’t thrilled with it. They liked the subtitle, but didn’t think the title was catchy enough. I disagreed, but eventually (kicking and screaming) came to see their point. I’d always felt like I’d have to defend it anyway – since the book is emphatic that Jesus did NOT invent altruism!! But that was part of the catch, I thought. In any event, even though a lot of people liked it, others were ambivalent.
So I’ve changed it. So far the editors like the new title, but we’ll see what it ends up as. For now,
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It seems like modern Christian movements emphasize charity but not extreme economic self-sacrifice. Why did some of Jesus’ most radical ideas get softened over time? I expect you may respond by telling me to wait for the book. 😃
Also, I appreciate you sharing the publishing process—it’s eye-opening to see how much back-and-forth goes into shaping a book. I always thought writing was just about getting ideas down, but it’s clearly a much more involved process.
Yup, it’s one of my main topics! But I suppose it’s not hard to figure out in rough outline. Being nice is much easier than selling all your possessions.
Writing. Oh boy is it involved. I haven’t given the half of it.
Is there a way to pre-order? This is the most excited I have been for a book in ages.
THere will be! Not yet. Can’t even agree on a title yet. 🙂 But I’ll announce it.
Then you have to sell it. Don’t leave that out!
I like the new title. It caught my attention right away.
Thanks. Me too. An now my publisher has nixed it. 🙂
“Somewhat weirdly, to our thinking, none of that could be found in the Greek and Roman civilizations out of which Jesus and his followers emerged.”
Well, I asked ChatGPT for aid , and he made a list of some cases :
1. Earthquake in Rhodes (227 BC)
Source: Strabo, Geography, 14.2.5
In 227 BC, a powerful earthquake devastated the island of Rhodes, toppling the Colossus of Rhodes and causing severe damage to the city.
In response, many Greek cities and Hellenistic rulers sent aid for reconstruction.
Ptolemy III of Egypt was one of the main benefactors, providing large sums of money and resources.
Strabo mentions that Rhodes received donations from many Greek city-states and monarchs, which allowed for its recovery.
2. Plague of Athens (430-426 BC)
Source: Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War, 2.47-54
During the Plague of Athens (430-426 BC), which struck in the midst of the Peloponnesian War, there were acts of private solidarity.
According to Thucydides, although the disease caused chaos and abandonment, some citizens risked their lives to care for the sick.
Thucydides highlights that survivors of the plague helped the ill, knowing they were immune.
He also mentions that some wealthy individuals provided aid, though most of the population was left without support.
3. Earthquake in Smyrna (178 AD)
Source: Aulus Gellius, Attic Nights, 2.6
Smyrna, a major city in Asia Minor, suffered a devastating earthquake in 178 AD.
Although Emperor Marcus Aurelius sent official aid, there were also private contributions.
According to Aulus Gellius, wealthy citizens from other cities donated money and resources for reconstruction.
He also mentions that great Stoic philosophers donated part of their wealth to help rebuild Smyrna.
4. Famine in Rome and Egypt (1st Century BC)
Source: Plutarch, Life of Cicero, 8.5
In the 1st century BC, Rome and Egypt faced recurring famines.
Plutarch mentions that Cicero and other wealthy citizens donated grain and resources to the Roman poor during a food crisis.
He also notes that some senators and Egyptian merchants offered personal donations to alleviate hunger.
5. Earthquake in Asia Minor (17 AD)
Source: Tacitus, Annals, 2.47
A massive earthquake struck Asia Minor (modern Turkey) in 17 AD, devastating 12 cities, including Sardis.
Emperor Tiberius provided significant state aid, but wealthy Roman citizens and local elites also contributed funds for reconstruction.
Tacitus records that Sardis received major donations from prominent individuals, and that local benefactors played a key role in rebuilding efforts.
I probably hold a rather negative view of the average vocabulary of the general public, but possibly this is what your editor was thinking? That people would read the title and not bother to look up “altruism”?
Yup. I used to have my undergraduates debate a controversial resolution: “Resolved: The Apostle Paul was a Misogynist.” But had to change the title when I realized some students who were debating it (after spending weeks allegedly doing research) did not know what a misogynist is….
I’m not a fan of this sort of revisionist history – even when it is done with good intention. It might be too strong to call this “fiction”, but how else but with fiction is it possible to reconcile the examples of Jesus-Judaism’s ‘exclusivity’*, ‘retribution and vengeance’, ‘violence’, ‘pettiness’, and subjectively, just plain silliness – with the microscopic nuggets of ethics that might possibly be pertinent to a 21st century human being? How else is it possible to move past the primarily political message, “you are with us (Jesus) or against us (Satan)” echoed by every Christian writer/leader throughout history? “Woe to you! – and your family and neighbors!” [Matthew 11:21] if you are against us for you are to be treated as morally inferior (with violence, often) in this world and damned in the next. The historian who claims that Jesus did not exist does not have much evidence to stand on, but the ethicist who claims that Jesus had no resplendent moral teaching is awash with testimony.
*Christianity is only inclusive if you submit yourself to the authority of its leaders!
Are you saying my book is revisionist?? I suppose you’ll have to read it to see what I say.
Congratulations! I look forward to reading it.
Congratulations on submitting your manuscript! What was the last draft that your editor saw prior to this manuscript? I’m wondering how much the editor will need to review for the first time.
This is the first draft they’ve seen. And she will review it, well, robustly….
Charrua, good examples, and I think Dr. Ehrman may be covering not just short-term emergency aid, but on *giving money to the poor?* Equity.
Talmud – Tractate Peah 8:8:
“Arabs do not gather [the gleanings], but rather give money to the poor.”
We should be looking at novel cultural influences for Jesus, like that of Galilee’s Arabian Queen Phaesalis. It’s not scientific to think a stone wall stacker is coming up with all of this on their own.
Dr. McGrath’s translation of the Mandaean Book of John has Mary, the mother of Jesus explicitly apostasizing from **Judaism** for a lord in a TURBAN. http://www.gnosis.org/library/The_Mandaean_Book_of_John_Open_Access_Ve.pdf
“Come see Meryey [Mary] who has forsaken Judaism and went to love her lord!…She has forsaken phylacteries and went to love a man in a turban!”
And look how Elijah is said to dispense charity in the guise of an Arab:
https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5634-elijah
“Elijah appeared to many while they were awake, and this in various ways. He often elected to appear in the guise of an Arab or, more exactly, in that of an Arab of the desert (see Arabia in Rabbinical Literature). In this manner he once appeared to a poor but pious man…(Midr. Ruth Zuṭa, ed. Buber, near end).”
Great work Bart!
Bart,
In one of your debates you described yourself as a “Christian Agnostic” and towards the end of the debate you read a verse from the Bible. I cannot recall which book of the bible you quoted from: Amos or Joel? I am curious as to which verses you quoted?
MikeR
I don’t know! But I tend to quote Amos when quoting one of the minor prophets.
“An index is prepared (I’ll have someone else do it, probably someone at the press. These things are a MAJOR PAIN to make)”
Is this now still done manually or does software perform the hard work with human to review at the end?
Manually still, usually. It’s a pain either way. I used software once to create one and what a pain in the neck reviewing *that* was. (What if some guy’s last name is “rice”?) (I guess these days it would be much much easier, but still. It’s usually hired out.)
Sorry, but my first thought after hearing your new title idea is, it’s a bit creepy.
You’re not alone. My publisher has nixed it on just those grounds.
Thanks Dr Ehrman. I will look forward to the publication of your book. It is timely as J D Vance may have given you some advance publicity by putting his own interpretation on the Augustinian Ordo Amoris (order of love) effectively suggesting that charity begins at home. This view has been challenged by several Christians including Tom Wright and the Pope.
BTW, I think the Emperor Titus did organise some disaster relief following the destruction of the cities of Pompeii and Herculaneum, but that is a rare example of pagan altruism.
PS. My hobby is thinking up titles for books. I would have called yours: ‘Who is my Neighbour? How Jesus got us to think unselfishly’ 🙂
I believe Titus provided funds for the uber-rich to restore their estates, no?
I’m not sure we can say that, Dr Ehrman. Suetonius says that Titus provided relief from his personal fortune for the victims of the disaster. Some of those victims would have been affluent (prior to the eruption) but many weren’t. Titus’s actions are often contrasted with Nero’s opportunistic response to the 64 CE fire in Rome.
6. Earthquake in Smyrna (178 AD)
Source: Aulus Gellius, Attic Nights, 2.6
In 178 AD, a devastating earthquake struck Smyrna (modern Izmir, Turkey).
Although Marcus Aurelius sent imperial aid, wealthy private citizens from across the empire contributed money and resources.
Stoic philosophers also donated part of their personal wealth to support reconstruction.
7. Earthquake in Asia Minor (17 AD)
Source: Tacitus, Annals, 2.47
A massive earthquake devastated 12 cities of Asia Minor in 17 AD, including Sardis and Magnesia.
Emperor Tiberius provided significant state aid, but also, wealthy Roman senators and equestrians contributed to reconstruction efforts.
Some Greek cities and private benefactors offered money and resources to affected regions.
8. Fire of Nicomedia (111-112 AD)
Source: Pliny the Younger, Letters, 10.33-34
A great fire destroyed much of Nicomedia (in modern Turkey) around 111-112 AD.
Pliny the Younger, as governor of Bithynia, wrote to Emperor Trajan requesting funds for rebuilding.
Trajan offered limited imperial aid, encouraging local benefactors to take responsibility for reconstruction.
9. Antonine Plague (165-180 AD)
Source: Galen, Methodus Medendi, 5.12
The Antonine Plague, likely smallpox, devastated the empire, killing millions, including Emperor Lucius Verus.
Wealthy Roman aristocrats financed private medical relief efforts and helped support infected communities.
The physician Galen describes how elite benefactors sponsored medical care and food distribution in Rome and Asia Minor.
Great news! I plan to order your new book regardless of the title.
Wow! Congratulations. You are a very productive person.
Hey, four more comments and you hit 2000!! Talk about productive….
Dr Ehrman
Can I strongly, strongly suggest that when you go on your promo tour for this book you be sure to reach out to the British Podcast “The Rest is History’. Tom Holland the co-host of this podcast wrote a book that contains many of these same themes that was titled Dominion, he also constantly bangs on about how much of what we take for granted in the West is Christian in its origins, I am certain he would love an excuse to talk about this subject for an hour on the podcast, I should add, a wildly succesful podcast with millions of global listeners, I really do think this is both a chat you would enjoy (Tom is aware of who you are and has mentioned you on the pod before) and would really help with book sales. Please do look into this as this is a discussion I would love to listen too, as though you share many of the same ideas, I think you have differences in emphasis that would be interesting to flesh out
Thanks!
One thing I do think you and Tom Holland need to explain is that if altruism did not exist before Christianity, if helping strangers just wasn’t a thing that people did, then how come there are beggars in the bible? If the Roman world was one where you did nothing to help strangers then begging would have been a waste of time as the Romans would have just ignored beggars in their midst, but Jesus is forever helping Beggars, but for them to be there to be helped by Jesus surely this must have been a world where beggars expected at least some Romans to give them food or money from time to time, they didn’t know Jesus existed before they went out begging that day, do you know what I mean?
Ah, altruism DEFINITELY existed before Chrisianity. Before any known religion. Before homo sapiens. None humanoid or pre-humanoid species would have coe into existence let alone survived wihtout it. But, ther is altruism and there is altruism… And yes, there was certainly altruism in Greek and Roman civilizatoin. And every other civilizatoin. So, I’m affirming that, not denying it. My treatment of jesus deals with a different *kind* of altruism.
Thanks Bart, Really looking forward to the book (as always)
Isn’t it the gospel authors who should be credited with laying putt the ethics of Jesus, together with all the unknown souls who passed the stories on, with modifications, rather Jesus himself, since, for the most part, we can’t be sure what he said?
Yes, the first step in doing a study like this is to do the serious historical work to determine what the person actually said as opposed to what was put on his lips by others (same with any account of the sayings of Socrates, Julius Caesar, or Charlamagne). Historians, of course, devote considerable effort into this kind of preliinary work.
It is interesting and surprising that an agnostic/atheist would see so much unique good in Christianity. I think it says a lot about your honesty and open-mindedness. Do you ever think that people following religious leaders with such certainty and vigor is similar to the way people currently are following certain political leaders? It is not that these leaders are that similar, but that followers are that similar.
Oh yes, I think a lot of political leaders around our world — from the distant past to literally today — have their cult followers who think they can do no wrong.
Looking forward to reading it! From your comment that “Jesus’ basic ethical principles lived on in one form or another and eventually became the moral ‘common sense’ among people in the West,” I take it that you don’t subscribe to the view that the moral progress of recent history is primarily the result of Enlightenment thinkers who, only after breaking free from the constraints of religion, were able to advance ethics—nor that religion, including Christianity, has been a net negative for humanity?
I mean it in a particular, specific sense. When Enlightenment thinkers developed their more secular perspectives, in many ways they were still influenced by the “common sense” of what it meant to be a good person that had come down ultimately from the teachings of Jesus (rather than, say, from Greek and Roman moral philosophy).