Scholars sometimes make an argument that they themselves surely (surely!) know isn’t very good, but that certainly sounds convincing to audiences that don’t know the full picture and so have little way of evaluating it. I seem to run across that a lot. Here in my 14th and final Anniversary Post celebrating the blog’s fourteen years of mortal existence, I give one from the very first month of the blog, the final post of April 2012, which dealt with a particularly common instance of just such an argument.
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I have had three debates with Dan Wallace (professor of New Testament at Dallas Theological Seminary and longtime friend) on the question of whether or not we can know for certain, or with relative reliability, whether we have the “original” text of the New Testament. At the end of the day, my answer is usually “we don’t know.”
For practical reasons, New Testament scholars proceed as if we do actually know what Mark wrote, or Paul, or the author of 1 Peter. And if I had to guess, I would would bet that in most cases we are probably close to what the author wrote.
But the dim reality is that we really don’t have any way to know for sure. Our copies are all so far removed from the time when the authors wrote, that even though we have so many (tons!) of manuscripts of the New Testament, we do not have many (ounces!) that are very close to the time of the originals, and it is impossible to say whether the texts were altered a bit, or a lot, between the time the originals were penned and our first manuscripts appear.
But I do think the common guess is reasonable, that probably the texts were not altered lots and lots and lots, even if there is really no way to know. This uncertainty doesn’t matter for most of us who are interested in the New Testament, both because there is nothing we can do about it and because it doesn’t have a huge bearing on other things we are interested in: We simply create a little fiction in our minds that we are reading the actual words of Mark, or Paul, or 1 Peter, and get on with the business of interpretation. It’s a harmless fiction, and very useful for all sorts of reasons that I may discuss in another post.
For this post I want to discuss briefly Dan’s typical counter-argument meant to show that in virtually all cases we DO know what the authors originally wrote.
His argument (which is given by myriad other apologists) is that we have SO many more manuscripts of the New Testament than for any other ancient author, that we are FAR better situated to know what these early Christian authors wrote than for any other work from antiquity.
Dan’s point is that we don’t sit around agonizing about whether the words we read in the dialogues of Plato are actually what Plato wrote; the same for the plays of Euripides, the histories of Livy or Tacitus, the epics of Homer, and so on. If we have no problem accepting that we have something like the “originals” of these writings, why not for the New Testament?
Dan goes on and gives the statistics. For some classical authors we have only one manuscript; or a dozen; or if we’re lucky a hundred. In some very lucky instances, such as Homer, we have hundreds of manuscripts (though never a thousand). And for the New Testament? We have over 5700 manuscripts – just in the original Greek. That is way, way, way, way more than for any other classical author! And so, as Dan puts it, for the New Testament we have “an embarrassment of riches.” Since we don’t doubt what these other authors wrote, why are we creating special problems for the New Testament authors and claiming that we can’t know what they wrote?
Let me make just three points about this claim.
First, it is not true that scholars are confident that they know exactly what Plato, Euripides, or Homer wrote, based on the surviving manuscripts. Not in the least. As any trained classicist will tell you, there are and long have been enormous arguments about all these writings. Most people don’t know about these arguments for the simple reason that they are not trained classicists. Figuring out what Homer wrote – assuming there was a Homer (there are huge debates about that; as my brother, a classicist, sometimes says: “The Iliad was not written by Homer, but by someone else named Homer” ) – has been a source of scholarly inquiry and debate for over 2000 years!
Second, and more important: just because we are WORSE off for other authors than for those of the New Testament does not in itself mean that we can trust that we know what the NT authors wrote. I am a lot stronger than my five-year old granddaughter. But that doesn’t mean I’m, say, strong enough to bench-press a half-ton truck. If you say that I must be because I’m MANY TIMES stronger than her, that would make no sense. I’m nowhere nearly strong enough. So too, just because we have stronger support for the New Testament than for other books — way more manuscripts — that doesn’t mean that we can therefore know what the originals said. That in no small part is because we don’t have nearly enough of the right kinds of manuscripts. Leading to my third point.
Third, even though we have lots and lots of manuscripts, the vast majority of them are comparatively late in date and not the kinds of manuscripts we would need to know with confidence that we have a very, very close approximation of the “original” text. 94% of our surviving Greek manuscripts of the New Testament date from after the ninth Christian century. That is 800 years (years!) after the so-called originals. What good do these late manuscripts do us? They do us a lot of good if we want to know what texts of Mark, Romans, or 1 Peter widely looked like 800 years after the originals were produced. But they are of much less value for knowing what the authors themselves wrote, eight centuries earlier. For that we would need lots of very early manuscripts which, alas, we do not have.
In short, it is absolutely true that the New Testament is far better attested than other ancient writings – pagan, Jewish, and Christian. But it is also true that this mere fact in itself cannot provide us with assurance that we know what the authors originally wrote.
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Thank you Mr. Bart. I’m new here, just trying to think this through.
You make a good point. Having lots of manuscripts does not mean we know exactly what the originals said. That makes sense to me.
But then you also say you’d bet we are “probably close” to what the authors wrote. Where does that confidence come from? If the manuscript numbers are not enough for certainty, what is it based on?
Maybe “probably close” is enough for most historical work. Scholars can still read Mark or Paul and make serious arguments. But it is not the same as knowing the original words, and it is not the same as proving that God perfectly preserved the text.
What level of confidence do we actually need, and for what purpose? For ordinary interpretation, for historical reconstruction, or for theological claims about Scripture?
The relative confidence comes from the reality that copying a text is necessarily a conservative process, unlie authoring a text. My view is that we reconstruct the oldest text we can and more or less assume (pretend?) it’s what hte author wrote. Even if it’s not exactly that, it’s a text that deserves interpreting carefully. That is true of nearly all our texts. Shakespeare scholars know extremely well that we don’t actually know the wording of the “original” Hamlet (folio and quarto are quite different). Same with all the plays…. disabledupes{26d75d3bd9d30b6c45a60f5e41af3c45}disabledupes
Thank you, that makes sense. Copying is conservative in a way authoring is not.
Your “assume (pretend?)” wording seems important to me. Is that level of confidence enough mainly for historical and interpretive work? Or do you think it can also carry theological claims about Scripture?
That distinction is what I’m trying to understand.
I watched the debate and I found it very interesting. What especially struck me was that, after the debate, several audience members were interviewed and almost all of them said that “Dr. Wallace won.” I must admit that I found that rather puzzling.
My impression was that the two of you approached the discussion with very different goals. Dr. Wallace seemed primarily concerned with defending a conservative evangelical perspective in a way that resonated with a non-specialist audience, whereas your focus appeared to be on presenting what you regarded as the most historically responsible conclusions — which I suppose is ultimately the role of a scholar — regardless of whether they were persuasive or comforting. At times, his presentation style seemed more oriented toward audience engagement through simplified and overly broad arguments.
I genuinely admired your patience in that kind of setting, and it made me wonder why you continue to participate in debates like that rather than focusing mainly on academic discussions among scholars. At the same time, I am very grateful for them, because they help people like me, who do not have much formal knowledge, better understand the New Testament and the issues surrounding it.
I regularly wonder why I do it too!
Thanks for that …and about Homer, I recall in one of your books you talked extensively about how much or little faith we can put in attributions from Oral Traditions being themselves inerrant, bottom line, not so much. This of course being true for Homer as well as both OT, NT.
And this just in: 4/23/26 https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/archaeologists-unearth-a-papyrus-fragment-from-the-iliad-tucked-inside-the-wrappings-of-a-1600-year-old-egyptian-mummy-180988603/ 1 more for Homer
Perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised how much evangelicals use incomplete logic and tautologies, or just plain can’t extricate belief from evidence. I recently read “The Trowel and The Truth”, Scott Stripling, which attempts to use archeology to justify OT accuracy, but omits a lot that counters literal reading of OT accuracy.
Similarly, Richard F. Carlson and Tremper Longman III “Science, Creation and The Bible: Reconciling Rival Theories of Origins” is an exercise in philosophical tortuous contortions. While I respect Longman III and his ‘How to read’ series, this book doesn’t cut it. They use the premise that science is about one realm while religion is about another. They acknowledge the astrophysical evidence for the Big Bang, space expansion, microwave background radiation, cosmological dating, etc. yet state that “The book of nature (science) and the book of Scripture cannot in principle contradict each other, for they both proceed from the same Author. (Huh?). This comment is not a book report so I’ll let readers investigate.
Most likely a lot of other author/book examples.
I’ve been listening to a lot of online sermons recently as part of a book project on which I’m working. One observation was quite surprising and independent of how conservative or liberal the preacher happens to be. When reading a Bible passage prior to beginning their sermon, very few read the words exactly. Almost always, they omit words (such as ‘and’ or ‘for’), add words (often to clarify), change words (e.g., ‘upon’ to ‘on’), wrongly quote words (‘woman’ instead of ‘women’, for example), change tense (e.g., from ‘is’ to ‘was’), or even add their own brief commentary. In one case, they (probably inadvertently) switched from one translation (NIV) to another (KJV) in the middle of a verse, maybe because they subconsciously remembered the version with which they grew up. These types of changes are very similar to the types of copyist changes you mention in your books. The only difference, of course, is that, today, the next speaker goes back to the original and doesn’t use the previous speaker’s “copy” of the text.
Another source for blog members: Vital Issues in The Inerrancy Debate, published 2015 so eleven years old now. Just beginning so I’m interested in the contributors’ logical arguments.
Great points, but I have another. We don’t know if our version of Plato’s Symposium is the one written by Plato. Maybe it was written a hundred years later, or a thousand. Who cares (besides historians)? All that really matters is what the book says. Philosophers don’t like the Symposium because its author was named Plato; they like it because of the ideas it contains. If it were written by someone else, the wisdom would be the same.
On the other hand, the New Testament is not primarily relevant because of its wisdom. Christians need the New Testament to be historical to establish the validity of supernatural events. That requires a MUCH higher bar of evidence. If an anonymous author invented the gospels in the 10th century, the ideas about mercy and love would be the same, but many Christians would be devastated without eyewitness testimony of Jesus’ resurrection.
To my mind, that’s what makes comparisons between the New Testament and Plato or Homer so irrelevant. There can be no question that SOMEBODY wrote Plato’s works, but there are enormous doubts about whether the gospel authors actually saw Jesus risen. The underlying truth claims are completely different.
That’s kind of my point. The REASON the issue matters topeople is because of the religoius significance of the NT in comparison with other books that don’t directly affect people lives or their sense of, well, eternal salvation.
(But we do have pretty good evidence of when Plato was writing the Synmposium etc.)
I can answer my immediately previous post. The book authors are ultra-conservative insisting that the bible is inspired, inerrent and literally true. They spend more pages trashing scholars who raise legitimate questions, e.g. Bart Ehrman, Mike Licona, one of my undergrad professors Robert Gundry, and many others than they do addressing legitimate questions.
One example per the gospel of Matthew: What happened to the people raised from their graves who spent time in Jerusalem? No answer. Just that they were raised from their graves.
A retired (now deceased) Christian preacher started the YouTube channel: BIBLEisMARKofBEAST. He said, “The Bible is an idol.”
Two groups were producing pseudepigraphal forgeries in the 1st century. One of these groups might be the first ancient Gnostic Christians. The other group lived in the city of Corinth, Greece and opposed the message of the Apostle Paul. Paul was warm in his tomb when both groups flooded the Mediterranean area with hand-copied forgeries. The Apostle Peter was targeted, too. Jude was quoting ENOCH and citing THE ASSUMPTION OF MOSES. “John of Patmos” wrote of skin tattoos, caste tattoos, and KRSNA myths (The Great Dragon and the Expectant Woman, Armageddon).
Then, the Council of Nicea produced a Nicean-friendly New Testament.
Roll the boulder up the hill. Watch it roll down the hill. Repeat.
Thanks, Bart. I enjoyed the post, or re-post. One question: How do the 94% of NT manuscripts from after the 9th century compare to what we have before then? Wouldn’t that help validate, or at least make it more likely, that we do know what the original authors wrote?
Yes, all mss are taken into account when trying to establish the older form of the text; and the criteria do not involve only which mss support one reading or another. By and large, the much later manuscripts all pretty much agree with one another in most places, and often they will disagree with earlier ones; when the other criteria are brought in (which reading would scribes have preferred? which form of the text conforms most closely to the writing style and theology and perspectives of the author, etc.) earlier mss almost always appear more accurate. BUT there may be occasoins where a stray later ms will preserve a reading that sure looks like the oldest one available.