Loading...I don’t recall ever doing any podcast interviews before on any of my academic books since, well, they are written for scholars rather than the general public and few podcasts target scholars (at least early Christian scholars!) per se. But I’ve had a couple on my recent book Journeys to Heaven and Hell, and I think it’s because the topic really is interesting to more than scholars.
Here’s one that helped bring out some of the intriguing material I cover, with an interviewer — Mike Delgado — who both knows his stuff and knows what is interesting. Enjoy!
Just curious — what are the OT verses refering to that talk about the golden age where lion lays down with the lamb, swords into plowshares, etc? Theses verses were written before the rise of apocalyptic thought, so was this supposed to happen as part of normal life as opposed to a new age where people would have to be raised from the dead to enjoy?
It’s in Isaiah 11 and can be considered a kind of “proto-apocalyptic” text, the kind of passage that could lead to apocalyptic ideas about what was to happen in the future (once, e.g., a dualistic view with cosmic forces at battle began to be imagined)
Modern “journeys to heaven” – or the (not so divine) comedy:
Just so you know, tours are still being offered to certain modern day prophets!. In fact, here is one who zooms up to heaven on a regular basis!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9YSRsZEFxhA
skeptik
Platinum since 2020
Good on ‘im!
That woman is really smoking some good stuff, as they say! I love listening to her talks though, specially when I need a good laugh!
Very interesting interview!
On the Isaiah 11 topic. First, the first chapters 1-5 depict Spirits of virtue that are to bestowed upon the anointed one. But Chapters 6-8, are a caricature picturesque reference. May I draw your attention to a famous painting with six dogs around a pool table by Cassius Marcellus Coolidge. His painting is illustrating dog identities to illustrate human nature. That layout in Isaiah is doing the same thing. Now, on the hell issue. This brings me back when my younger brother and I were kids. One day he asked mom what hell was like. Her response was; “Remember the day you picked up a waste paper can with a fire burning in it and you burned your hands real bad. Picture that feeling all over your body till eternity”. When my brother told me of this, I was floored. First, you don’t tell a nine year old this kind of terror, unless second, she believed it herself. We were brought up Catholics. I think that speaks for itself. We learned later, hell can be experienced right here on earth, be it war, be it illness or be it being put down by your alcoholic dad.
We can thank the Greeks for heaven!
Dr. Ehrman,
Being a practicing Roman Catholic my church is HUGE with threatening eternal damnation; it is replete in all areas of our theology. Do you think that perhaps the Church Fathers and EARLY theologians consulted this text despite it not being included into the New Testament to “broaden” their view on Hell?
Some did. And others wrote their own texts! The doctrine of hell because a major feature of missionary preaching early on, and certainly had legs….
King, I’m not as Catholic as you, but having been raised Catholic, I remember a number of loopholes, especially if you ask for forgiveness in the last seconds of your life. Then there’s the whole “what is a mortal sin” thing. And purgatory. My impression from m/l the same upbringing was that hell was an extremely rare thing.. you almost have to aim for it and keep aiming throughout your life.
Question for sociologists and psychologists of religion… is this because there is so much variation in what people within a religion are taught.. variation through time and space? And to what extent is it a natural function of the brain chemistry/life experience of the person? For example, I am biochemically optimistic without much trauma in my life, so it is easy for me to believe in a merciful God and hear the parts of theology that fit in with my own biases.
George Carlin’s comment on purgatory went something like “I can do a eon on my head…because you knew you were going home.”
The Qur’an mentions hell the most, compared to the Hebrew Bible, Christian Old Testament and Christian New Testament!
Hey Dr. Ehrman,
Tonight I watched your interview “Heaven and Hell: Contemplating the Ultimate Future | The Forum at St. Bart’s” then immediately came here and subscribed because I have a question. You stated that the historical Jesus didn’t believe in the idea of Hell as many modern Christian believe today, i.e. a place of eternal punishment for souls in an afterlife, but then later in the interview answered a question and referenced Matthew 25: 31-46 where Jesus is quoted saying things like “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” and “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”. What does Jesus mean by these passages? They seem contradictory to him not believing in a place of eternal punishment.
Thank you and I look forward to your response!
Good questoin! I deal with it at some length in my books on heaven and hell. Short story: Jesus believed that those cast into the fire would be destroyed there (he uses the term “destroyed” a lot, and compares their fate to weeds thrown into a furnace, where, of course, the weeds do not survive; he uses other comparable images as well). So the condemned are destroyed in fire. It is an “eternal” punishment becuase it cannot be reversed. They will have no chance to repent and return ot life. It’s over for them, forever.