Loading...Early Christians interpreted their sacred texts in a variety of ways, some of them a bit bizarre to many modern readers, as I pointed out in my previous post. Here I discuss two different views of the matter, one by a Gnostic Christian named Ptolemy and the other by the most famous opponent of the Gnostics, Irenaeus.
Here are the Introductions to their discussions that I give in my book After the New Testament (2nd edition, Oxford University Press, 2014); after the introductions, in the book I give modern English translations of their discussions themselves, one translated from the Coptic and the other from Latin. If your interest is piqued in what they actually say, and in the dozens of other ancient Christian writings I provide in the book, check it out!
******************************
Ptolemy’s Letter to Flora
One of the most famous disciples of (the Christian gnostic) Valentinus (see the Gospel of Truth) was Ptolemy, a renowned gnostic teacher who lived in Rome in the mid-second century. From Ptolemy’s own hand comes one of the clearest expositions of gnostic ideas, in a letter addressed to a woman named Flora, a non-Gnostic Christian whom Ptolemy is concerned to educate into the higher realms of knowledge of the faith. The letter is just the beginning of Ptolemy’s instruction (regrettably, his subsequent lessons have been lost), but it concerns a central component of his gnostic views, his understanding of the Bible.
Get access to Dr. Ehrman's library of 4,000+ articles plus five new articles per week about the New Testament and early Christianity. It costs as little as $2.99/mth and every cent goes to charity!
Unlock 4,000+ Articles Like This!
This is a very interesting thread, Professor. Thanks.
In Ptolemy’s view did a “Perfect God and Father” exist? If so, what did he think his involvement was in all this?
Most Christian Gnostics did in one way or another, but I don’t believe we know what Ptolomy’s specific views on the matter were, since this is the one writing we have from him and he does not directly address the issue there.
Thanks for the post. You mentioned “The proper interpretation of the Bible.” What is the “Bible” for Ptolemy? Is it the OT and/or Paul’s Letters? I would not imagine that he is referring to the OT and NT.
We don’t know what full canon he had, or if he even had a specific canon per se. In this letter he is referring to the law of Moses as found in the Jewish Bible and explaining where it came from.
Hi Bart
I read your posts about christology of early christians (the disiples) and paul dan you have said that their christologys differ how is that possible if peter and paul had talked in galatians 1 and 2, did they not agree on that toppis?
It’s hard to know what Peter’s Christology was, since we don’t have any writings from him or any direct reports about his theological views. But it is not difficult to imagine that two people who talk with each other may come away still having differnt views.
Hi bart
In 1 Coeinthians 15 : 3-8 Paul uses all the apostles and all the disiples why does he mention the 12 apostles 2 times?
I believe the term “apostles” appears only in v. 7.
G’day Dr Ehrman
Quick question about something I don’t think I’ve ever heard you talk about
With the 6 (or is it 7) Pauline letters that scholars believe weren’t written by Paul that are in the Bible, do we think these were written by 6 (or 7) different people, or were 2 or more of them written by the same not-Paul person?
There are debates but the most common view is that Ephesians, Colossians, and 2 Thessalonians were each written by a different author but htat the 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus all have the same author. I discuss this in my book Forged and at considerable length in my book Forgery and Counterforgery.
Thankyou for this
You actually hit on what was my secondary question if all the potential forgeries by one person used the same fake name for all the forgeries they created. Fascinating that one person used 2 different fake names for his forgeries
I’m not sure we’re saying the same thing? I’m saying that three different persons claimed to be Paul when writing Ephesians, Colossians, and 2 Thessalonians (three persons all independently claiming the same name), but only one person clamed to be Paul when writing 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus (one person claiming the same name for three different books he produced)
My sincerest apologies for my stupidity, of course Timothy and Titus are the people written too, so that of course means one guy is pretending to be Paul for all 3 not pretending to be Timothy and Titus
The thing I was wondering with my secondary question was if one guy wrote multiple letters pretending to be Paul on one or Peter/James on another
But that doesn’t appear to be the case, so thankyou very much for answering my primary question about if one pseudonymous writer wrote multiple letters and especially thankyou for your patience with my stupidity in my follow up point
Very kind of you
It’s not a stupid question, Pommy Lee
Unrelated question. In Matt. 25:31-46, the separating of the sheep from the goats, Jesus says in Matt. 25:41 “Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You who are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels,’”
Do you think Jesus meant that those human beings who entered the fire would be immediately destroyed while the devil and his angels would continue to be tormented forever?
Yes, very similar to the lake of fire in Revelation, where the devil and his minions are said to be tormented there forever, whereas for humans it is their “second death,” meaning it kills them, this time for good. That’s why it’s an “eternal” punishment. Not that they are tormented forever but because it is a punisment that will never be reversed. It is eternal.
Please, is there a difference between ‘eternal’ and ‘everlasting’ – with the former having no beginning nor end whereas the latter has a beginning but no end?
Yes, I suppose that would be the difference.
Referring back to the sheep and the goats, was there ever any discussion among church fathers about what where the bar was? How much did one have to feed, clothe, visit, etc., to distinguish themselves as a sheep and not a goat?
There probably was, but I’m not aware of it. Most would probalby say something like “regularly”