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How does a religion arise? The case of Christianity.
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Helen Young

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September 28, 2026 - 8:04 am

The title of this topic is: How does a religion arise? The case of Christianity.

We have textual evidence of the earliest Christians living after the crucifixion and before the first Pauline letters were written. They didn’t have a book or theological texts concerning Christ or Christianity. With Jesus now gone, how much fixed leadership did they have? It’s hard to tell.

What did they have? What kept them going and held them together?

I’m going to propose that they had spiritual experiences and faith experiences that enabled them to believe and brought them together in a kind of mutual understanding. Something special was happening here, and they went with it.

 
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Robert
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September 28, 2026 - 8:49 am
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Helen Young

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September 28, 2026 - 11:02 am

Robert said

Helen Young said
We have textual evidence of the earliest Christians living after the crucifixion and before the first Pauline letters were written. They didn’t have a book or theological texts concerning Christ or Christianity.

They had word-of-mouth, eventually distilled into a creed of sorts:

For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures 4 and that he was buried and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.

What was the nature of these appearances? A first spiritual experience, spoken of to others before being had by others? Eventually, someone would write about their own spiritual experience:

Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me … 

Whatever these spiritual experiences were, they were already being accompanied and mediated by human tradition of interpretation.
  

By spiritual experiences I don’t mean visions of the risen Christ, though I suppose these could count too. What I mean is a kind of psychological spiritual experience. A mind-opening experience, a faith-based experience that enables one to feel and know the love of God &/or Christ as well as their insights and their Light.

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Robert
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September 28, 2026 - 11:49 am
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Helen Young

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September 28, 2026 - 12:12 pm

Robert said
The point is, the spiritual experiences you are talking about are nonetheless mediated by human words and traditions and eventually letters and books that make up the New Testament. 
  

A person can just know Jesus’s name and title as Christ and have a spiritual experience. 

There can be other words and ideas involved as well, but at the same time, it can be that elegant and simple.

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Stephen
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September 28, 2026 - 2:54 pm

Helen Young said

Robert said
The point is, the spiritual experiences you are talking about are nonetheless mediated by human words and traditions and eventually letters and books that make up the New Testament. 
  

A person can just know Jesus’s name and title as Christ and have a spiritual experience. 
There can be other words and ideas involved as well, but at the same time, it can be that elegant and simple.
  

Helen I’m not trying to pile on here but I think Robert is making a good point.  I am in no position to lecture anyone about their personal spiritual experiences so let me just ask.  If for you “Jesus” and “Christ” can be experienced apart from the whole host of associations built up around them over the centuries then what do they mean for you?  I’m genuinely interested.  

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Helen Young

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September 28, 2026 - 3:48 pm

Stephen said

Helen Young said

Robert said
The point is, the spiritual experiences you are talking about are nonetheless mediated by human words and traditions and eventually letters and books that make up the New Testament. 
  

A person can just know Jesus’s name and title as Christ and have a spiritual experience. 
There can be other words and ideas involved as well, but at the same time, it can be that elegant and simple.
  

Helen I’m not trying to pile on here but I think Robert is making a good point.  I am in no position to lecture anyone about their personal spiritual experiences so let me just ask.  If for you “Jesus” and “Christ” can be experienced apart from the whole host of associations built up around them over the centuries then what do they mean for you?  I’m genuinely interested.  
  

An energy, a frequency, vibes, a pleasantness, almost like drinking the best vodka you’ve ever had without the negative side effects or the impairment; instead, one gets clarity, love, peace, fulfillment and not having the need to be fulfilled. A feeling that everything is fine and one can handle things. Simplicity, grace, Idk how else to put it. But it’s in and about the Spirit of Christ, and his spirit in me.

(sorry about the vodka analogy, but it’s not totally different either)

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Robert
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September 28, 2026 - 4:27 pm
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Judith

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September 28, 2026 - 4:29 pm

Helen Young, I know that sense of grace, clarity, peace and fulfillment as a believer. But didn’t Paul say to find our lives, we would lose our lives? Here I am all concerned about a garden club speaker, stocking gifts to delight those who already have everything, keeping up with a home that has become too much. Surely, as a believer, I would at least be volunteering at the schools to work with children who need help with reading or math or on call at the hospital to drive patients who have no way to get home? Wouldn’t believers spend their time very differently if they truly believed?

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Robert
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September 28, 2026 - 4:30 pm
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Judith

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September 28, 2026 - 4:53 pm

Not beautiful, Robert. Sad! If I were to live my belief, it might help someone. Multiply that by two billion other believers in this world living their beliefs. Surely, the world might look a little better? It’s true that I’ve done some things and I’m now old. But I’m a young old, in perfect health. No excuse!

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Robert
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September 28, 2026 - 4:54 pm
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Helen Young

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September 28, 2026 - 4:58 pm

Judith said
Helen Young, I know that sense of grace, clarity, peace and fulfillment as a believer. But didn’t Paul say to find our lives, we would lose our lives? Here I am all concerned about a garden club speaker, stocking gifts to delight those who already have everything, keeping up with a home that has become too much. Surely, as a believer, I would at least be volunteering at the schools to work with children who need help with reading or math or on call at the hospital to drive patients who have no way to get home? Wouldn’t believers spend their time very differently if they truly believed?
  

Yes definitely. People should give what they can, on a one-to-one level, by donating and doing things like you’ve mentioned. These things come from the spirit and help a person stay or be in the spirit as well. I wasn’t excluding them. I guess I should have mentioned it, but I guess I kind of lean towards the idea of keeping one’s charitable works secret, or at least be somewhat quiet about them.

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Helen Young

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September 28, 2026 - 5:04 pm

There are also things like being kind on the one-to-one level. When you see someone who’s down and out or sort of out of sorts, give them a word of encouragement, a supportive word, or a smile.

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Robert
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September 28, 2026 - 5:07 pm
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Helen Young

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September 28, 2026 - 6:03 pm

Thing is, if we are all in a good energy state, aren’t we more likely to be generous, kind and more charitable?

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Robert
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September 28, 2026 - 6:07 pm
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Helen Young

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September 28, 2026 - 6:19 pm

Safety nets are important. They should be a given.

It’s all intertwined. If more and more people are in a good energy state, then the more safety nets of different kinds come into existence. The more we all have real safety nets, the more we will all be able to be in a good energy state.

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Judith

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September 28, 2026 - 6:21 pm

Helen Young: “…aren’t we more likely to be generous, kind and more charitable.”

I think that’s being a decent human being. It would seem to me more is required if we are to think of ourselves as believers in Christ. Then, we would devote ourselves wholeheartedly in the service of others. 

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Judith

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September 28, 2026 - 6:24 pm

Helen Young, I’m not being confrontational on purpose but I do wonder about myself saying I’m a believer. If I truly believed, I would live very differently.

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