Scholar Bart Ehrman asks What do you think of the God Hypothesis? Feb. 26, 2025
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Steefen:
Notion of God:
Eternal
Amoral
Quantum Consciousness
Omnipresent in the multiverse
More than the god of our Solar System
More than the god of our three-dimensional reality
A physicist who invented touch screen technology, Federico Faggin says:
“NEW Quantum Science PROVES Consciousness GENERATES Reality!”
For God to exist, God must have consciousness.
We can no longer say an omnipresent consciousness does not exist.
One can no longer be agnostic or atheistic against an omnipresent consciousness.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
Thomas Aquinas in Summa Theologica had 5 proofs of God.
Regarding omnipresnece, this attribute is more explicitly developed in classical and medieval theology. nselm of Canterbury (1033–1109), known for the ontological argument, spoke of God as “that than which nothing greater can be conceived,” which implies omnipresence as well.
For a direct treatment of omnipresence, Spinoza (1632–1677) is notable—he equated God with the universe (Deus sive Natura), making God inherently present everywhere. However, his pantheistic view was different from traditional theism.
Since Spinoza, has there been better proofs of God’s existence?
Chat:
Since Spinoza, many philosophers and theologians have attempted to refine or provide new proofs for God’s existence. Some of the most influential post-Spinozan arguments include:
1. Kant’s Moral Argument (18th Century)
Immanuel Kant rejected traditional proofs (such as Aquinas’ Five Ways) but argued that the idea of moral law presupposes a moral lawgiver (i.e., God). He believed that human morality and justice require the existence of God for the highest good (Summum Bonum) to be realized.
2. Gödel’s Ontological Proof (20th Century)
Mathematician Kurt Gödel formulated a logical-mathematical proof of God’s existence using modal logic. His argument builds on Anselm’s ontological proof but applies modern formal logic, demonstrating that if God’s existence is possible, then God must necessarily exist.
3. The Fine-Tuning Argument (20th–21st Century)
Advances in physics and cosmology have led to the fine-tuning argument, which suggests that the universe’s physical constants (such as gravity, the strong nuclear force, and dark energy) are so precisely calibrated that they strongly indicate intelligent design. This argument is central to thinkers like William Lane Craig and John Polkinghorne.
4. The Information Argument (21st Century)
Influenced by quantum mechanics and information theory, Federico Faggin (whom you’re familiar with) and others suggest that consciousness and information are fundamental to reality, which supports the existence of a divine intelligence. This approach aligns with panpsychism and idealism, suggesting that consciousness precedes the material world.
5. Alvin Plantinga’s Modal Ontological Argument (20th Century)
Plantinga, a leading philosopher of religion, refined the ontological argument using modal logic. His proof suggests that if a maximally great being (God) is possible, then He must exist in some possible world. And if He exists in some possible world, He must exist in all possible worlds—including ours.
6. Near-Death Experiences (NDEs) and Consciousness Studies (21st Century)
Research into NDEs, quantum consciousness, and non-materialistic neuroscience suggests that the mind may exist independently of the brain. Thinkers like Bernardo Kastrup argue that reality is fundamentally mental, which supports a God-like consciousness as the foundation of existence.
So, Are These “Better” Proofs?
That depends on what you mean by “better.” Traditional proofs relied on Aristotelian logic and metaphysics, while modern arguments use physics, mathematics, and cognitive science. If you find Spinoza’s pantheism insufficient, these newer arguments might offer more rigorous or scientifically informed perspectives.
Would you like to explore any of these in more detail?
Proofs of God’s Existence since Spinoza
Possible Scores: 1 for No 2 for Maybe 3 for Yes
Kant – 1
Godel – 1
Fine-Tuning Argument and William Lane Craig & John Polkinghorne – 1
Information Argument – 3
Alvin Plantinga’s Modal Ontological Argument – 1
Near-Death Experiences and Consciousness Studies – 3
So, for me.
Spinoza and later the Information Argument for God’s existence
and
Near-Death Experiences and Consciousness Studies
could build a winning affirmative case for God’s existence.
About Aquinas
First Mover is Newtonian Physics. – 1
First Cause can be replaced with Quantum Field Causes – 1
There must be a Necessary Being that always exists – God – 2
Argument from Degrees of Perfection (The Greatest Being) – 2
Intelligent Designer/Teleological Argument – 2
Yes, the argument that “God exists because there was the Big Bang” is a version of the Cosmological Argument, specifically a modern form known as the Kalam Cosmological Argument. This argument, championed by philosopher William Lane Craig, builds on Aquinas’ First Cause argument but incorporates modern cosmology.
The Kalam Cosmological Argument
Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
The universe began to exist (Big Bang Theory confirms this).
Therefore, the universe must have a cause.
Since the cause of the universe must be outside of time, space, and matter, this is often identified as God—an eternal, uncaused, non-physical being.
Objections & Counterarguments
Quantum Physics & Vacuum Fluctuations: Some argue that the universe could have emerged from quantum fluctuations, but this does not fully explain why there is a quantum vacuum at all.
Multiverse Hypothesis: Some physicists propose a multiverse, but this just pushes the question back—where did the multiverse come from?
God of the Gaps: Critics say this argument simply inserts “God” where we don’t yet have a scientific answer.
Alternative Theological Views
Some theologians suggest that God is not just the First Cause but also sustains the universe continually, making divine action compatible with science.
Would you like to explore how this compares to Spinoza’s or Faggin’s perspectives on consciousness and reality?
What should be the score for this argument?
Let me review it and I’ll give you my answer.
= = = = =
Cosmological/Causation Argument for God’s Existence
Well, I was thinking the Cosmological argument needs to be updated.
Chat:
Since the cause of the universe must be outside of time, space, and matter, this is often identified as God—an eternal, uncaused, non-physical being.
Steefen:
There are 11 dimensions.
Before the Big Bang. there may not have been the 3rd dimension of the material but other dimensions could have existed.
So, I’m going to say no to the Big Bang First Cause
OK so we have the material world and the non-incarnate world.
When people die they go to the non-incarnate world.
There are aliens in the non-incarnate world–people have reported.
Well, I’m back to the NDE and Consciousness plank of the argument for God’s existence.
Tentative Conclusion or Conclusion Holding:
A two plank Affirmative Case for the existence of God:
Quantum Field Collective as God and Consciousness and NDE Experiential Proof of God’s existence.
Don’t I want to add a third?
Relative to humans on Earth and the Electric Universe and Astrology,
Suns and Stars are demigods.
Oh, so if you can’t prove the existence of God of the multiverse, humans have the collective of stars and their solar systems with planets in the universe as God.
= = = =
Well Bart doesn’t wait around for people to respond, he goes on to his next post.
Bart,
Thank you for prompting your audience to think about God.
I gave my working notion of God.
I did a quick survey from Aquinas to the 21st century of the Arguments for God’s existence.
Two arguments that hold up for me are from the 21st century:
1) The Information Argument (Federico Faggin) – suggests that consciousness precedes the material world.
and
2) Near-Death Experiences (NDEs) and Consciousness Studies (Bernardo Kastrup) – reality is fundamentally mental supporting a God-like consciousness for existence.
If these arguments for God of the multiverse are lacking, the Sun and its Solar System can be the God through whom we have life. That God over a specific location in the Milky Way has the intelligence of the field of knowledge of Astrology people study.
Since Science says there are 11 dimensions to reality. God cannot only be the cause of the Big Bang in only a 3 dimension reality.
Human consciousness which is not omnipresent, in a state of incarnation and after incarnation, would have access to the third dimension of reality but not necessarily to all 11 dimensions. So, humans cannot validly deny the existence of God in dimensions to which we do not have access.
No Steefen,
there are 12 dimensions.
Each category of time (past, present, future) has 4 dimensions. Four multiplied three times equals twelve.
The Three Dimensions are directions in the XYZ axis and The Fourth Dimension is the rotational movement with the XYZ axis either clockwise or counterclockwise. Without The Fourth Dimension time cannot be measured. Gravity does not exist without The Fourth Dimension.
The Three Dimensions of any of the three times (past, present, future) already exist as a location that can be observed. The Fourth Dimension (movement within The Three Dimensions) of the Future Time is suggested not to exist yet, but has been predetermined by the Laws of Nature.
If the Universe is expanding as creating more space then there’s dimensions beyond the 12.
The 12th Dimension does exist. The room over yonder; it’s there right now and in the past and will be there in the future.
There’s nothing going on there but there will be in the future. That is the 12th dimension.
Google,
How many dimensions does reality have?
Google:
There are multiple theories about the number of dimensions of reality, including three, four, ten, or more.
Three dimensions
In everyday life, we experience three dimensions of space: height, width, and depth.
We can pinpoint our location in space using these three dimensions.
Four dimensions
Einstein’s theory of relativity includes time as a fourth dimension.
This means that we need four numbers to pinpoint our location in space and time.
Ten dimensions
String theory suggests that there are ten dimensions, though they might be so small that we can’t detect them.
An extended version of string theory, called M-Theory, suggests that there are 11 dimensions.
Other dimensions
Some theorists have proposed that there are higher dimensions that are beyond our senses.
Some concepts of higher dimensions, like a hypercube, can be explored by examining its 3D shadow.
Related concepts
Some people consider fourth-dimensional consciousness to be a higher level of perception and awareness that includes time.
The idea of a fifth dimension is called a tesseract, and it’s related to entanglement in quantum physics.
Chat,
How many dimensions does reality have?
Chat,
That depends on how you define “reality.” Different fields of study offer different answers:
Everyday Experience (Classical Physics) – We experience reality in three spatial dimensions (length, width, height) and one time dimension, making it 4D spacetime (Einstein’s relativity).
Quantum Physics & String Theory – Some theories propose extra dimensions beyond the four we observe:
Superstring Theory suggests 10 dimensions (9 spatial + 1 time).
M-Theory extends this to 11 dimensions (10 spatial + 1 time).
Other variations propose even more, but these dimensions are thought to be “curled up” and imperceptible.
Philosophical & Metaphysical Views – Some interpretations of consciousness, quantum mechanics, and even spiritual traditions suggest additional dimensions of mind, information, or existence that go beyond physical spacetime.
Simulation Hypothesis & Computational Reality – Some physicists and philosophers suggest reality may be a form of computed or emergent structure, where “dimensions” could be constructs rather than absolute features.
Are you leaning toward a scientific, metaphysical, or philosophical perspective on this?
In what dimension are ancestors who have passed away?
Chat:
That depends on how you view the nature of existence and consciousness. Here are a few perspectives:
1. Physicalist View (Material Science) – No Extra Dimension
From a purely materialist perspective, once the body ceases functioning, consciousness is considered to be a product of the brain and thus ends. In this view, ancestors exist only in memory, genetics, and historical impact—not in another dimension.
2. Relativity & Time as a Block Universe (Physics) – Still in 4D Spacetime
Einstein’s theory of relativity suggests that past, present, and future coexist in a four-dimensional “block universe.” This means ancestors still “exist” in the past but are inaccessible to us. They haven’t disappeared; they are just in a different coordinate of spacetime.
3. Quantum Consciousness (Nonlocality & Information Theory) – Another Layer of Reality
Some interpretations of quantum mechanics, such as those influenced by Federico Faggin’s ideas on consciousness, suggest that mind is not just a product of the brain but may exist as a nonlocal quantum process. If true, then ancestors’ consciousness could persist in a higher-dimensional information field, sometimes described as a quantum or Akashic record.
4. Religious & Mystical Views – A Spiritual Dimension
Christianity, Islam, and Judaism often place the afterlife in heaven, hell, or an intermediate realm.
Hinduism & Buddhism speak of rebirth, karma, and different planes of existence (lokas, bardos).
Shamanic traditions believe in an ancestral spirit world, which may be accessible through altered states.
5. Simulation & Digital Consciousness – Data in a Cosmic Hard Drive?
If reality is a type of computational structure, then consciousness may not end with physical death but could be stored or re-accessed in a larger “information dimension” akin to a cosmic memory. This aligns with some digital philosophy and even aspects of panpsychism.
How is panpsychism defined?
Chat:
Panpsychism is the idea that consciousness is a fundamental and universal feature of reality—not something that emerges only in complex brains but something that exists at all levels of existence, even in the smallest particles.
Key Variants of Panpsychism
Constitutive Panpsychism – Consciousness exists at the level of fundamental particles (like electrons and quarks), and our human consciousness emerges from their combination.
Cosmopsychism – Instead of individual particles having consciousness, the entire universe is a conscious whole, and our individual awareness arises from it.
Panprotopsychism – Reality contains proto-conscious properties, which are not fully developed as consciousness but form the basis for it to emerge.
Relation to Quantum Theory
Some interpretations of quantum mechanics suggest that observation (or “measurement”) is required to collapse a quantum wavefunction into a definite reality. If consciousness is fundamental, panpsychism could explain why the universe seems to behave differently when observed.
Relation to Theological and Mystical Ideas
Panpsychism shares similarities with:
Animism (the belief that all things have spirit or consciousness)
Neoplatonism (which sees reality as an emanation from a fundamental Mind)
Eastern Philosophies (such as Advaita Vedanta and Taoism, which suggest an underlying unity of consciousness)
Would you say panpsychism aligns with your own views on consciousness, or are you considering it alongside other possibilities?
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
1 Guest(s)