I don’t disagree with any of that.
You had brought final causality up and seemed to suggest it bore some preeminent importance. I was allowing that there was room for discussion about whether final causality, specifically, occupies so central a position in the discussion (although I do tend to agree that teleology is especially important, at least to Aquinas’s natural theology; teleology gives him his most comprehensible ground for claiming that God is endowed with intelligence and will).
In that, I suppose I intended to make a concession to Steefen, who had apparently been confused by the introduction of final causality to a thread it had not previously factored in.
Aquinas could not have been thinking of Newton even though Apples fell to the ground in 1274
Correct. As you note, Newton wasn’t born until 400 years after Aquinas died.
Of course, Newton’s contribution to physics was not simply noticing that apples fall. Aristotelian physics had an explanation for why heavy things fall, it just wasn’t a very good one.
Unmoved Mover = First Cause
is NOT Newtonian Physics ? ? ?
It is not Quantum Physics.
= = =
It’s not Newtownian Physics because Newton comes after Aquinas.
Right it is not Quantum Physics.
I like what Porphyry said in his last post.
But let me see, where were we?
Robert was going from God exists to God created FOR A PURPOSE TO BE FULFILLED.
and people say God wanted to know Itself through us. That’s the meaning of creation.
I’m not going to pursue the conversation on how many dimensions there are.
I’m cool to stop at 11.
I remember a Scientific America magazine article on fractional dimensions.
Consciousness is definitely in the 3rd dimension + time.
Consciousness is definitely in the non-material dimension where the I Ching is, where ancestors are.
Consciousness can recall memories as if it were just yesterday. I recalled something that happened in my future, so that was an instance where the conscious NOW did not need to traverse time. It was there about a year before my personal conscious NOW.
In the last week, I was listening to Barbara Hand Clow say time is in the 6th dimension, and the time we experience in the third dimension is not time.
Time does not really exist, people have said.
3rd dimension = the material dimension
4th dimension = discarnate consciousness = ancestors
5th dimension = a place that controls 3rd and 4th
6th dimensionn = time?
If the 4th dimension is where we go–life between reincarnated lives and there are not revolving planet’s days and nights relative to the Sun, it makes sense that the time that passes in the realm of Life/Incarnation review and re-assignment to a new incarnation has a different time element.
Is Collin correct there? Maybe: because we have two realms with very different time elements.
BUT, we can still say, someone lived 1900 to 1950 and came back 10 years later and lived 1960 to 2010.
Using Science Fiction instead of reincarnation.
In Science Fiction movies, say,
the Jodie Foster character in Contact,
her spaceship was half a minute but she thought the time elapsed was longer?
So, there. Two realms and two different time elements.
Or when astronauts age slower than people on earth.
This also supports Collin
Earth to Vega is a wormhole trip to a different dimension, not a trip to a different place in the 3rd dimension.
I can’t find it now but I heard it once.
So, maybe wormholes open us to a different dimension where she can go from Earth to Vega which is in the Constellation Lyra.
The Sun is 95 light years from Vega and she did a round trip in less than a second.
Comment 68
If Consciousness creates reality as Faggin says, then we could be back to Final Cause because Reality to the shape of efficiency (efficient causality).
Reality took shape in a way that it met its desire to participate toward the highest and most pure actuality.
Peace. Out. Later.
3-D Spatial Dimension plus Time. If it takes 95.05 light years to go from the Sun to Vega in the Constellation Lyra. If one goes there through a worm hole, can the worm hole use a different dimension to get there. Why? Space has limitations of distance and time. Maybe a worm hole using a different dimension can shorten the amount of time.
Chat
Yes, a wormhole could use a different dimension to shorten the travel time between the Sun and Vega. This idea is based on how wormholes are theorized to work in general relativity.
Why a Wormhole Can Use a Different Dimension:
Higher-Dimensional Bypassing:
In general relativity, spacetime is typically modeled in four dimensions (three spatial dimensions plus time). However, theories such as string theory and M-theory suggest the existence of extra spatial dimensions beyond the familiar three. A wormhole could act as a shortcut through one of these extra dimensions, effectively bypassing the vast distances in normal 3D space.
Einstein-Rosen Bridge Concept:
A wormhole, or an Einstein-Rosen bridge, is a hypothetical tunnel connecting two separate points in spacetime. Instead of traveling the full 95.05 light-years through normal space, an object could enter one end of the wormhole and exit at Vega almost instantly, depending on the structure of the wormhole.
Space-Time Folding (Shortening Distance):
If space can be curved or folded in higher dimensions, then two distant points (like the Sun and Vega) could be brought closer together. Imagine folding a piece of paper so that two points touch—traveling between them in this “extra-dimensional” shortcut would be much shorter than following the flat, straight-line distance.
Bypassing Time Constraints:
Since light speed is the maximum speed limit in normal spacetime, a wormhole would allow travel without being constrained by the speed of light. If the wormhole connects two points instantaneously or nearly instantaneously, the traveler avoids the 95.05-year light-speed limitation.
Implications:
If such a wormhole exists and is traversable, it would enable faster-than-light (FTL) travel without violating relativity since the journey wouldn’t technically involve moving through normal space at superluminal speeds.
However, stabilizing a traversable wormhole may require exotic matter with negative energy density, something that remains theoretical.
So, in principle, yes—a wormhole could use a different dimension to drastically shorten the travel time to Vega by avoiding the limitations of normal space and time.
The wave-particle duality quantum mechanics idea does not really suggest that electromagnetic things are waves.
The wavelength:waves are just the mathematical representation of the measurements of its energy.
It’s all particles. The lower the energy the more that particle will bounce off and deflect off things. Light is very low energy. X-Rays are higher energy particles that can muscle its way through stuff. X-Rays are much more dangerous to be exposed to for long periods of time than light.
The infamous Double Slit Experiment was a magic trick. The test strip was timed to oscillate back and forth, up and down like a figure 8 and the slits were timed to open and close to recreate a wave interference pattern. They’re not really shooting one particle:wave of light or electron at a time. That’s all ridiculous magic trick stuff.
It’s all particles. . . . The infamous Double Slit Experiment was a magic trick. The test strip was timed to oscillate back and forth, up and down like a figure 8 and the slits were timed to open and close to recreate a wave interference pattern. They’re not really shooting one particle:wave of light or electron at a time. That’s all ridiculous magic trick stuff.
That’s a really interesting theory. Do you happen to have a source for it?
I’ve enjoyed trying to follow the exchange as best I can but it has not been particularly easy.
If I understand correctly the first cause is what started everything, the prime mover, and the final cause is its purpose, the why. Is that right?
My point was not that the prime unmoved mover and final causality should or should not be identified with each other. I’m completely open to those who interpret them as the same entity/substance/system (not sure exactly what word Aristotle would use here) in the thought of Aristotle.
If you would, please comment on the above.
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