Jon Nolan commented
at Vridar.org
Comparing the myths of Adapa and Adam prototypes of priest and humankind
by Neil Godfrey
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The Adapa myth starts with gaining wisdom directly from a Divine Source at the bequest of that Divine source. Power is granted because power in a subordinate is not feared but encouraged. Immortality is offered but mistakenly declined.
The Adam myth starts with gaining wisdom indirectly from a Divine source in direct contravention of that Divinity’s desires. Power is usurped because power in a subordinate is feared. Immortality is denied.
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I’ll have to read the other comments later.
Google,
Is Egypt older than Sumer?
Answer:
About 30 years ago, this question seemed to have a straightforward answer. Around 4000 B.C., the earliest phase of the Sumerian culture arose as the oldest civilization in the Mesopotamia region, in what is now mostly Iraq.
… The result is that archaeologists in Egypt have now discovered writings just as early as the earliest writings from Sumer, which suggests the oldest phase of the ancient Egyptian civilization emerged at roughly the same time as the earliest phase of the Sumerian civilization: about 4000 B.C.
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> > > Sumer had a god of resurrection: Dumuzi/Tammuz.
Ezekiel 8: 14
Then he brought me to the entrance of the north gate of the house of the LORD, and I saw women sitting there, mourning the god Tammuz.
Wikipedia entry for Dumuzid/Tammuz
In the Sumerian poem The Return of Dumuzid, which begins where The Dream of Dumuzid ends, Geshtinanna laments continually for days and nights over Dumuzid’s death, joined by Inanna, who has apparently experienced a change of heart, and Sirtur, Dumuzid’s mother.[53] The three goddesses mourn continually until a fly reveals to Inanna the location of her husband.[54] Together, Inanna and Geshtinanna go to the place where the fly has told them they will find Dumuzid.[55] They find him there and Inanna decrees that, from that point onwards, Dumuzid will spend half of the year with her sister Ereshkigal in the Underworld and the other half of the year in Heaven with her, while Geshtinanna takes his place in the Underworld.
> > > Egypt had a god of resurrection: Osiris.
So, to seek more antiquity than Genesis, we can go to Ancient Sumer or Ancient Egypt.
Steefen:
Chat GPT,
In Ancient Egyptian Religion, which god created humans and how?
ChatGPT-4:
In Ancient Egyptian religion, there are different versions of the creation myth depending on the region and the specific god worshipped. However, in many of these myths, the creation of humans is closely tied to the sun god Atum or Khnum, among others.
Atum (Heliopolitan Creation Myth): In the Heliopolitan myth, Atum, the god of creation, was believed to have created humans from his own bodily fluids. At the beginning of time, Atum existed alone in the watery chaos called Nun. To create the world and its inhabitants, he first created the deities Shu (air) and Tefnut (moisture) through an act of self-creation (by spitting or through other bodily fluids). Later, humans were created from Atum’s tears of joy when he was reunited with his children. In this view, humans are considered to be born from the very essence of the creator god.
Khnum (Elephantine Myth): Another significant creation myth features the god Khnum, who was considered a divine potter. Khnum was said to create humans from clay on his potter’s wheel. He shaped each individual’s body and soul (ka) from the clay of the Nile River and then placed them into the wombs of their mothers, giving them life. This image of a potter god shaping people emphasizes the personal, crafted nature of human life in this belief.
Both these myths emphasize that humans were made by the gods in a deliberate and meaningful way, highlighting their importance in the divine order of the universe.
Steefen:
Chast GPT,
Which story of immortality came first The Myth of Adapa or The Epic of Gilgamesh?
Chat GPT:
The Myth of Adapa predates the Epic of Gilgamesh in terms of its earliest known written versions, making it one of the earliest stories dealing with the theme of immortality in Mesopotamian literature.
Myth of Adapa (circa 14th century BCE):
The Myth of Adapa is part of early Mesopotamian literature, with the earliest versions dating to around the 14th century BCE. Adapa, a human priest and sage, was created by the god Enki (Ea) and endowed with wisdom but not immortality. In the myth, Adapa is summoned to heaven after breaking the wings of the South Wind. The god Anu (An) offers him the food and water of life, which would grant him immortality. However, Enki warns Adapa not to eat or drink anything in heaven, so Adapa refuses the divine offering, unknowingly rejecting eternal life.
Epic of Gilgamesh (circa 12th century BCE, with older oral traditions):
While the Epic of Gilgamesh exists in its most complete form from the 12th century BCE (the Standard Babylonian version), portions of the story, particularly those featuring the Sumerian king Gilgamesh, are based on much older oral traditions that date back as far as the Third Dynasty of Ur (circa 2100 BCE). The epic deals with the heroic quest of King Gilgamesh, who seeks immortality after the death of his friend Enkidu. His journey brings him to Utnapishtim, a survivor of a great flood who was granted immortality by the gods. However, Gilgamesh ultimately fails in his quest for eternal life.
Comparison:
The Myth of Adapa deals with a more passive rejection of immortality due to misunderstanding or deception, where Adapa’s wisdom leads him to unknowingly forgo eternal life.
The Epic of Gilgamesh, on the other hand, portrays a heroic, active quest for immortality, ending in the acceptance of human mortality as Gilgamesh fails to achieve eternal life.
Conclusion:
While both stories address the theme of immortality, the Myth of Adapa came first in terms of its earliest written form (circa 14th century BCE), although the Epic of Gilgamesh incorporates older oral traditions and may have had earlier versions.
Chat GPT, list in chronological order from the oldest, the first six cities of Ancient Sumer, please.
Here is a chronological list of the first six cities of Ancient Sumer, ordered from the oldest:
ANCIENT SUMER
Eridu – c. 5400 BCE
Nippur – c. 5000 BCE
Uruk – c. 4000 BCE
Ur – c. 3800 BCE
Shuruppak – c. 3000 BCE
Lagash – c. 2500 BCE
The Akkadian period is generally dated 2334 – 2154 BCE.
Although Uruk is older than Shuruppak above, Sharuppak is actually older:
Gilgamesh goes to meet the immortal Ziusudra (Noah) who was the last antediluvian king of Sharuppak because Ziusudra survived the flood in an ark.
Gilgamesh asks Ziusudra how did he gain eternal life.
The gods decided to destroy humanity because of their sins.
Enki gave him advanced notice and told him to build a massive boat to survive.
The gods saw that he survived destruction, so they rewarded him with eternal life. He and his wife lived in a distant realm, far from ordinary humans.
Ziusudra’s wife tells Gilgamesh of a plant in the sea which restores youth. Gilgamesh gets the plant but when he is bathing leaves the plant and it gets stolen by a serpent.
So, Gilgamesh from Uruk goes to Ziusudra who could explain there was a flood which he survived and because of this he and his wife were rewarded with eternal life. So, there must have been an earlier Shurrupak, a more ancient Shurrupak, older than the one which came before Uruk of 4,000 BCE.
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@MatthewLaCroix @JulianDorey,
Sharuppak is 600 miles from Mount Ararat. A flood covering that distance is needed.
If the Sharuppak flood level is 45 feet, that is 3 to 4-1/2 stories.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
currently working on the second edition
The Hebrew creation myth speaks of the Elohim, gods in plural.
Creation and flood come from Sumerian creation and flood myths.
The Powerful Ones, the Elohm are:
1. An
2. Enlil
3. Enki
4. Ninhursag
5. Inanna
6. Utu, the sun-god
7. Ptah, the Ancient Egyptian god who created by speaking things into existence
Steefen:
Is Ptah older than An, Enlil, and Enki?
ChatGPT said:
The question of whether Ptah (an ancient Egyptian god) is older than An, Enlil, and Enki (Mesopotamian gods) is complex, as it depends on the specific timeframes and contexts in which these gods emerged within their respective cultures.
Ptah:
Ptah was one of the oldest gods in ancient Egyptian mythology, primarily associated with creation, craftsmanship, and architecture. He was the patron deity of Memphis, one of the earliest and most important cities in Egypt, and was believed to have created the world through thought and speech. Ptah was already significant in Egypt during the Early Dynastic Period (c. 3100–2686 BCE) and likely had even earlier roots in pre-dynastic times.
An, Enlil, and Enki:
An (or Anu in Akkadian) is one of the oldest known deities in Sumerian mythology, with origins tracing back to the earliest phases of Sumerian civilization around 3500 BCE. His prominence as the god of the sky and the head of the pantheon in Sumerian religion predates many of the other Mesopotamian gods.
Enlil, the god of air, wind, and storms, gained prominence as a central figure in the Mesopotamian pantheon after An. Enlil played a more active role in human affairs and became one of the most powerful gods, especially in the city of Nippur. He appears in myths as early as 3000 BCE.
Enki (or Ea in Akkadian), the god of wisdom, water, and creation, is also ancient, with records of his worship beginning in Sumer around the same period. Like Enlil, Enki appears in early myths and held a vital role in Sumerian cosmology.
Comparing Ptah to An, Enlil, and Enki:
Chronologically, the gods of both traditions have extremely ancient roots, dating back to the 3rd millennium BCE or earlier. Ptah’s worship likely began in pre-dynastic Egypt (before 3100 BCE), while An, Enlil, and Enki emerged as major deities in Sumer around the same general time period, particularly between 3500–3000 BCE.
Since the development of religious thought occurred independently in Egypt and Mesopotamia, it is difficult to definitively say which god is “older.” In terms of recorded history and known worship practices, Ptah and An are both among the earliest gods mentioned in their respective cultures. Ptah’s status as a creator deity in Memphis might have developed at a slightly earlier time, but both Ptah and An have roots that extend far back into prehistory.
Conclusion:
It is not accurate to claim definitively that Ptah is older than An, Enlil, and Enki, but they all trace their origins to the very early phases of civilization in their respective regions. Both the Egyptian and Sumerian pantheons developed during roughly the same period, around 3500–3000 BCE, so their prominence likely emerged concurrently rather than one being distinctly older than the other.
Prof. Ehrman,
The Hebrew Bible creation myth refers to Elohim and uses language such as Let us make Man, and Man has eaten of the Tree of Knowledge and like us, knows good from evil.
With Abraham coming from Ur in Sumer and Sumerian creation and flood myths predating Hebrew Bible creation and flood myths, should you, other historians, and students of history identify The Elohim, the plurality of Powerful Ones (gods in plurality) as follows?
1. An
2. Enlil
3. Enki
4. Ninhursag
5. Inanna
6. Utu, the sun-god
7. Ptah, the Ancient Egyptian god who created by speaking things into existence (John 1:1, In the beginning was the Word…)
Thank you,
Steve Campbell, author of
Historical Accuracy
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
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