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Paul Says 500 People Saw the Risen Christ?
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Steefen
7641 Posts
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March 29, 2021 - 6:05 pm

Iskander Robertson said
“First, the chief priests and Pharisees were doing risk management: it is possible the disciples would start a rumor. “

so why did the pharisees not keep custody of the body ?

  

You are proposing a different option.

Option 1: Bury him, roll a big stone in front of the entrance, and guard it.

Option 2: Keep a dead body in custody. Where? Where, if not in a tomb. As long as they ordered the tomb to be guarded, it was in custody.

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Stephen
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March 29, 2021 - 6:40 pm

Iskander Robertson said
“First, the chief priests and Pharisees were doing risk management: it is possible the disciples would start a rumor. “

so why did the pharisees not keep custody of the body ?

  

It’s most likely Jesus’ body rotted on the cross and was disposed of in a shallow grave.  There was no tomb to be guarded or body to be kept.  The post-resurrection stories are just that – stories.  

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IR_2017

136 Posts
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23
March 29, 2021 - 7:32 pm

“Before Jesus Ascended to Heaven on the 40th day of his resurrection, 500 soldiers of Pilate went to Galilee.”

when they returned to jerusalem , they had an urge to allow the jews to spread fake news with the help of the romans? 

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IR_2017

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March 29, 2021 - 7:34 pm
“Option 2: Keep a dead body in custody. Where? Where, if not in a tomb. As long as they ordered the tomb to be guarded, it was in custody.”

they been in the business of burial for god knows how long, but they couldnt have come up with a clever plan and keep it in some secret burial location?

 
As long as they ordered the tomb to be guarded, it was in custody”
 
no it wasn’t . one day had already passed before the body was guarded
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Steefen
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March 30, 2021 - 2:08 pm

Iskander Robertson said
“Before Jesus Ascended to Heaven on the 40th day of his resurrection, 500 soldiers of Pilate went to Galilee.”

when they returned to jerusalem , they had an urge to allow the jews to spread fake news with the help of the romans? 

  

What is fake news in Acts of Pilate/Gospel of Nicodemus? According to this account, the Roman soldiers saw Jesus.

If you want to talk about history, Jesus of the late 20s/early 30s did not exist. We only have a historical account of the Samaritan Restorer/Redeemer being given the death penalty by Pilate. We also have the Logos angel being made real through historical fiction.

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Linda

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April 11, 2021 - 3:58 pm

Too bad Paul did not mention the women who saw Jesus at the tomb. And were told to report his resurrection to his male disciples. 

If the Gospels were not yet in written form when Paul was alive surely their oral traditions were. Did Paul not hear from Peter or John or the other Apostles about the women?

Or were those reports false the women were not there? 

Or did Paul not go into consultation with the Apostles in order to learn all he could about Jesus, his sayings, his teachings, his manner with sinners, his manner with women, his eating with and associating with so called sinners?

There is a great disconnect between the Gospels and Paul’s letters. One has to hunt and pick among his letters to find an echo of Jesus’ sayings in them. It is there but only if hunted down. 

Spend time reading, or listening to, only the Gospels for a while then switch to Paul. It is a revelation. 

I am not anti-Paul I just do not believe he always stuck to the script. He liked to go his own way. An interesting thing about Paul: As a Jew he persecuted Jewish Christians then as a Christian he continued to work against Jewish Christians. Yes, he did like to go his own way opposing what he himself wanted to oppose.

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Steefen
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April 12, 2021 - 5:36 pm

Linda said
Too bad Paul did not mention the women who saw Jesus at the tomb. And were told to report his resurrection to his male disciples. 

If the Gospels were not yet in written form when Paul was alive surely their oral traditions were. Did Paul not hear from Peter or John or the other Apostles about the women?

Or were those reports false the women were not there? 

Or did Paul not go into consultation with the Apostles in order to learn all he could about Jesus, his sayings, his teachings, his manner with sinners, his manner with women, his eating with and associating with so called sinners?

  

Steefen, Argumentation Specialist
Euhemerism is defined as the theory of the Greek writer Euhemerus that the Greek gods were created from real stories about humans and historical events. An example of euhemerism is imagining that characteristics of Zeus are based on the actions of a real person.

Jesus of the 20s / late 30s is an imagining that
the Son of God / Son of Man / Logos / The Chosen/Elect One / The High Priest / the Angel
was a real person at that time.

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Stephen
4490 Posts
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April 13, 2021 - 10:46 am

Too bad Paul did not mention the women who saw Jesus at the tomb. And were told to report his resurrection to his male disciples. 

If the Gospels were not yet in written form when Paul was alive surely their oral traditions were. Did Paul not hear from Peter or John or the other Apostles about the women?

Or were those reports false the women were not there? 

Perhaps the stories about the Empty Tomb just hadn’t been invented yet?  I’ve always suspected the women were Mark’s creative contribution because their response to the resurrection fits so neatly with his larger themes of fear and silence.

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Linda

43 Posts
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April 13, 2021 - 2:27 pm

Stephen said

I’ve always suspected the women were Mark’s creative contribution because their response to the resurrection fits so neatly with his larger themes of fear and silence.

  

Fear and silence? 

I give you “fear and silence”, the men who fled and did not even show up at the crucifixion or early to the tomb. Embarassed 

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Stephen
4490 Posts
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April 14, 2021 - 5:12 pm

Fear and silence? 

Oh yes.

Just then there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit, and he cried out, “What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are, the Holy One of God.” But Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be silent, and come out of him!” 

And he cured many who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons; and he would not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him.

After sternly warning him he He strictly ordered them that no one should know this, and told them to give her something to eat.sent him away at once, saying to him, “See that you say nothing to anyone;

Then he said to them, “Is it lawful to do good or to do harm on the sabbath, to save life or to kill?” But they were silent.

But he sternly ordered them not to make him known.

He said to them, “Why are you afraid

“What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.”

They came to Jesus and saw the demoniac sitting there, clothed and in his right mind, the very man who had had the legion; and they were afraid. 

But overhearing what they said, Jesus said to the leader of the synagogue, “Do not fear, only believe.”

He strictly ordered them that no one should know this, and told them to give her something to eat.

But when they saw him walking on the sea, they thought it was a ghost and cried out; for they all saw him and were terrified. But immediately he spoke to them and said, “Take heart, it is I; do not be afraid.”

Then Jesus ordered them to tell no one; but the more he ordered them, the more zealously they proclaimed it. 

Do you have ears, and fail to hear?

Then he sent him away to his home, saying, “Do not tell anyone in the village.”

And he sternly ordered them not to tell anyone about him.

He did not know what to say, for they were terrified.

So they kept the matter to themselves, questioning what this rising from the dead could mean.

They went on from there and passed through Galilee. He did not want anyone to know it…

But they did not understand what he was saying and were afraid to ask him.

They were on the road, going up to Jerusalem, and Jesus was walking ahead of them; they were amazed, and those who followed were afraid.

Many sternly ordered him to be quiet

And Jesus said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.”

But he was silent and did not answer.

Pilate asked him again, “Have you no answer? See how many charges they bring against you.” But Jesus made no further reply, so that Pilate was amazed.

At three o’clock Jesus cried out with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

So they went out and fled from the tomb, for terror and amazement had seized them; and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.

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cstu

130 Posts
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31
August 1, 2022 - 2:25 am

Stephen said

Iskander Robertson said

the tradition is filling in the details for corinthians 15?

  

A fine definition of tradition. Filling in the holes.   

  

I like this…”Filling in the holes says…”

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