Robert said

Jarek said

They all believed deeply that they were called by God to a great project. Called as leaders, as theologians …

So Marcion did have theological aims?

  

At some point, yes. Once you build an organization on selected content products, your flexibility decreases. Well, you can’t do a turn – boys forget about Paul, now Thomas. Note he was in Rome for a few years, his donation was accepted. They were all open to foreign theology – that was early Catholicism. Marcion shares products with the Romans, but both organizations are developing separately because they did not get along

Robert said
Yes, I know. But do you accept these accusations as true?

  

Robert, what is the theology value of my opinion in this project? This is a rhetorical question, the answer is – none. In this project, I am the CEO collecting recommendations from various specialists. By definition, I have to stand much further to see and connect it all. In terms of the truthfulness of the accusations, the more important question is how these accusations developed. And here I reach for the opinion of professionals. Judith Lieu in Making Heretic presented a very good query of sources and a description of this process. The total criticism of Marcion began with justin Martyr’s theological dispute. After Marcion just left Rome. In this criticism, Justin told the truth about what hurt him the most. His students willingly leave him and go to Marcion. It must hurt. When this bunch of talking heads depended on the unstable will of a few sponsors, he earned where they never dreamed of reaching. He earned by an army of trained missionaries for whom a great opportunity was opened up under the simple and effective Eternal Amway Rules. The inflow of money made it grow faster and he could introduce costly modifications, confident that tomorrow he would get at least as much as today. All for the glory of the Lord. Amen

For several years in Rome, Marcion was not a heretic, but a partner in long and difficult negotiations. Like Valentinus. The leaders of different traditions got together to get along. The Savior’s contradictory offers weakened His image. Internal quarrels spread to the public forum, which was also a big image problem. Negotiations did not bring the expected agreement. They all went out to declare each other heretics

Robert said

Jarek said

Robert, what is the theology value of my opinion in this project? This is a rhetorical question, the answer is – none.

It has exactly the same value as the rest of your speculation about Marcion. At first you wanted to dismiss the theological characterizations of his later opponents in order to make room for your business model, but your business model ultimately led you back to admitting that, of course, there must have been deeper differences. Your business model hermeneutic is valuable to the extent that it is able to deal effectively with all of the evidence.

  

I am just developing the business model using your comments so that its hermeneutics can handle everything. And I can certainly say that there will be significant changes to it, because I would have to be clairvoyant to predict the result at the very beginning.

JAS said

Jarek said

I am just developing the business model using your comments so that its hermeneutics can handle everything. And I can certainly say that there will be significant changes to it, because I would have to be clairvoyant to predict the result at the very beginning.

  

And so also would need to be the people who are guilty of the “marketing conspiracy” that you seem to be proposing. It is precisely that point that greatly undermines the proposal.

  

Was Panthera the grandfather of Jesus as Epiphanius would like? Are Paul’s 6 Letters from the NT His Work? Did Tertullian compare Marion’s gospel with that of Matthew? Perhaps the conspiracy is a Polish specialty, since for 20 years the whole of Europe has been laughing at our theories about Putin.

JAS said
I think it is precisely the fact that we have issues and inconsistencies that argue against a carefully planned and executed conspiracy, certainly one done by the hand of a few. The problems you describe, and others, seem to me to be clear indications of the clumsiness of something that was not really planned at all, but merely came to be over a long period and with the intervention of many hands, none of whom were acting according to a grand plan or with any notion of what the future would make of the whole thing.

  

You don’t appreciate them. They didn’t need any big plan. They were just consistent. They did not deny authenticity or authorship. They denied the content. Peter’s Gospel was okay for them as the work of Peter until they found it contained content that fostered competition – docetism.