“speak of the Law as a pedagogue (ַּפַּדְּגוֹג), but without this sense of it ever being superseded”
Jeremiah 31 (Berean Standard)
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33 “But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the LORD.
I will put My law in their minds
and inscribe it on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
and they will be My people.
34 No longer will each man teach [3925 yə·lam·mə·ḏū יְלַמְּד֣וּ shall teach]
his neighbor or his brother,
saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know Me,
from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD.
For I will forgive their iniquities
and will remember their sins no more.”
“Paul speaks of every knee bending, every tongue confessing”
Romans 14 (NIV)
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9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister?
Or why do you treat them with contempt?
For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
11 It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
I think I’m finally starting to understanding what is the crucial point and I will try to convey my thoughts. I’d be happy to hear your opinion specifically on my understanding.
As we all know, and as Acts:15 tells us, in the mid-first century, the Judaizers were preaching the wrong thing by requiring that in order to be saved, one must have done circumcision and observe other rituals of the moses’s law. As the council of Jerusalem decided, this was the wrong thing to preach and misleading and circumcision was not necessary to be given salvation. This decision surely doesn’t contradict Matthew 25:31-46 – i.e Jesus’s words.
We don’t know for sure whether letter to Galatians were written before or after this council, but what’s important is that the latter was written because of the debate and Paul is trying to explain why “preaching the other gospel – i.e Judaizer’s preech – Galatians-1:6-7” was wrong. I think this context is super, super important to know before we start to understand Paul’s thoughts.
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Since we know why Paul was writing this letter, we can understand more now. Let me quote his words:
“a man is justified not by performing what the Law commands but by faith in Jesus Christ. We ourselves are justified by our faith and not by our obedience to the Law, for we have recognised that no one can achieve justification by doing the “works of the Law”.
“if I attempt to build again the whole structure of justification by the Law then I do, in earnest, make myself a sinner.”
“For if righteousness were possible under the Law then Christ died for nothing!”
“Surely you can’t be so idiotic as to think that a man begins his spiritual life in the Spirit and then completes it by reverting to outward observances?”
If you read these very deeply, it’s understandable to agree with Paul. Mainly, if righteousness were possible under the law, Why would God even bring Christ on earth ? There’d be no point for that, but since God realized that no one could follow the law fully, something must have been done – so he brought Christ – That’s the point Paul is trying to convey.
In Galatians, Paul basically focuses on the circumcision which is understandable why(because of Judaizers) and he clearly says that if one gets circumcised, he is bound to obey all the rest of the Law which is clearly NOT possible as no one can follow the law fully so the law causes/is the curse and Christ is the answer.
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One can ask now whether Paul thinks that “faith alone” is enough or not ? and I am sure Bart and many others would directly say: “yes, Paul thinks that faith alone is enough”, but it’s important to understand what Paul means by works and faith. Let’s read the latest chapter in Galatians:
“Here is my advice. Live your whole life in the Spirit and you will not satisfy the desires of your lower nature”.
“The activities of the lower nature are obvious. Here is a list: sexual immorality, impurity of mind, sensuality, worship of false gods, witchcraft, hatred, quarrelling, jealousy, bad temper, rivalry, factions, party-spirit, envy, drunkenness, orgies and things like that. I solemnly assure you, as I did before, that those who indulge in such things will never inherit God’s kingdom.”.
“The Spirit however, produces in human life fruits such as these: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, fidelity, tolerance and self-control – and no law exists against any of them. Those who belong to Christ have crucified their old nature with all that it loved and lusted for. If our lives are centred in the Spirit, let us be guided by the Spirit.”
Well, what’s actually super easy to understand is that “faith alone” doesn’t mean that one who believes and does evil things will be able to enter the kingdom. If I say I believe in Jesus and I go and kill a man, my faith solely doesn’t let me enter the kingdom. What Paul is trying to say is true faith is what makes us behave kind and good.
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So my summary is that: Paul preaches “faith alone” doctrine because to avoid/diminish wrong preaches by other pseudo-christians(e.x Judaizers). By Paul’s understanding, no one can be justified by works of the law which is also clear as law itself makes us sinners right away which I am sure everyone would agree. So there must have been a plan/cure needed to be improvised which by Paul’s opinion is Jesus Christ, otherwise without Jesus Christ, no one would be righteous- i.e justified. Though as Paul says, “faith” is something that gives you spirit which gives you love/kindness. I focused on Galatians only but in Romans, the concept is the same. Also, Now that I think deeply about this, I don’t think Paul really contradicts the Matthew 25:31-46 at all. It’s just that Gospel of Matthew doesn’t mention such theology and simply outlines small concepts where as Paul goes into depth.
If you ask what happens to someone that does good things but doesn’t believe in christ, I’d say that no one does only good things and everyone is sinner so faith is still needed to be saved.
—
Question 1: What’s your thoughts on all this ?
Question 2: Am I the only one who doesn’t see any contradiction between Paul and Matthew 25:31-46 ?
Greetings. I’m a newcomer to the blog and have been following this conversation with some interest.
My initial response to the question of whether Paul is a Universalist is obviously not because he is convinced of the second coming and judgement, but looking through the Pauline epistles, nowhere is there mention of eternal damnation, which is explicitly stated in Matthew — 26:41 “You that are accursed depart from me into the eternal fie prepared for the devil and his angels.” Compared with say Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Is eternal death implied? It is not explicitly stated at any rate. And then in Romans 11:32 Paul says “For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all”, which sounds more than a little like Universalism.
With regard to Paul’s position on justification, that seems unambiguous from statements such as Romans 3:28 “For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the law.” To me, “apart from” implies regardless of, or, in other words, alone. When he subsequently states in Romans 3:31 “Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.” What is being said is that justification from works under the law cannot be achieved, not that the law is invalid, but that no one can comply with the full measure of the law so justification can only by achieved through faith in the redemption of Jesus Christ.
Ah, Robert, I didn’t realize I was reading a misleading translation by Phillips. Would you recommend the best translation that I can read ? a link would be great.
FiskeMiles, I agree with Robert that you need to read Bart’s Heaven and Hell where he explains that it’s the fire that is eternal and not the torment. Fire is eternal because it’s always on and people end up here to be burnt, but as you go to the fire and it takes max 5 min to be burnt and die, Bart uses the same analogy here.
Thanks for your replies.
I am currently reading Ehrman’s Peter, Paul, and Mary: The Followers of Jesus in History and Legend and will take a look at Heaven and Hell.
It’s not clear to me what point is being discussed with regard to justification through works — Paul’s position seems unequivocal in multiple passages, including Galatians 2:16, no one will be justified by the works of the law, and then Galatians 2:21, if justification comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.
“My initial response to the question of whether Paul is a Universalist is obviously not because he is convinced of the second coming and judgement”
How does “the second coming and judgement” go against universalism?
“looking through the Pauline epistles, nowhere is there mention of eternal damnation”
Agreed.
“eternal damnation… is explicitly stated in Matthew …:41 ‘You that are accursed depart from me into the eternal…”
A better rendition of the Greek (and of its underlying Aramaic) is ‘age/world of fire.’
Matthew 25:41 (Young’s Literal)
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Then shall he say also to those on the left hand,
Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during,
that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;
“in Romans 11:32 Paul says ‘For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all’, which sounds more than a little like Universalism”
Agreed.
See also Romans 5.
I’m not clear on how to use the quote mechanism in this forum.
DavidFord
In Universalism everyone is saved which raises the question of what purpose final judgment serves? I mean, specifically within the theology of Paul — not Universalism generally.
Robert
Thanks for your reply. I will do some reading about Paul’s use of the phrase “works of the law.”
“In Universalism everyone is saved”
Eventually.
Including– according to some quarters– the devil.
“In Universalism everyone is saved which raises the question of what purpose final judgment serves?
I mean, specifically within the theology of Paul — not Universalism generally”
What purpose is served by these 3 servants’ judgment?:
Matthew 25 (Berean Standard)
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14 For it is just like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted them with his possessions.
15 To one he gave five talents, to another two talents, and to another one talent-each according to his own ability. And he went on his journey.
16 The servant who had received the five talents went at once and put them to workc and gained five more.
17 Likewise, the one with the two talents gained two more.
18 But the servant who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground, and hid his master’s money.
19 After a long time the master of those servants returned to settle accounts with them.
20 The servant who had received the five talents came and presented five more. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.’
21 His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Enter into the joy of your master!’
22 The servant who had received the two talents also came and said, ‘Master, you entrusted me with two talents. See, I have gained two more.’
23 His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Enter into the joy of your master!’
24 Finally, the servant who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Master, I knew that you are a hard man, reaping where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed.
25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what belongs to you.’
26 ‘You wicked, lazy servant!’ replied his master. ‘You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed.
27 Then you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my return I would have received it back with interest.
28 Therefore take the talent from him and give it to the one who has ten talents.
29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance.
But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.
30 And throw that worthless servant into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Romans 2 (NIV)
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1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.
3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”^a [a: Psalm 62:12; Prov. 24:12]
7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
11 For God does not show favoritism.
“in Romans 11:32 Paul says ‘For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all’, which sounds more than a little like Universalism”
Cf. Ezekiel 16.
Hey Robert, I have read the NRSVue translation and to be frank, I am still agreeing to my point which I wrote in 43th reply.
Paul definitely says in Galatians:5:19-21 that people who do these immoral things won’t enter the kingdom and in Galatians:5:22-26, he says that faith/spirit is the one that guides to the love and good things to do. I believe that what he is referring is not “faith alone”, but Paul believes that “faith” would cause love, kindness, make us good-doers which will get us into the kingdom. The context he is definitely talking about is the idea that one shouldn’t outwardly follow all the law from Moses as if one tries, he is destined to fail, become a sinner and so on. So again, Paul believes that christ died for something which is to put aside the law(which was kind of a trap) and bring another justification system.
It’s trully interesting what he means when he mentions the works of the law, but he clearly emphesizes in multiple places that circumcision won’t give a salvation which in my opinion is the real/true context we should depend on. Let me ask a couple of questions if you don’t mind.
Q1: Do you have an easy answer how protestants and martin luther ended up with “faith alone” doctrine ? or maybe I am wrong and protestants don’t actually follow “faith alone” doctrine, but maybe they also believe that “faith” brings the kindness, good-doers and so on and that’s why they use “faith alone” jargon ?
Q2: I think I understand now what bart Means – he doesn’t say that Matthew’s chapter and Paul’s thoughts are contradictory, but he says that the messages are not the same. Sure, I agree with that. I think what’s actually going on is Jesus said a very simple message: “do good things, you will enter the kingdom”, but Jesus never said that faith in him would bring salvation, I think that Paul just thought a lot and added his theological views which doesn’t make what he said absolute true. I am sure you will agree with me so far, but my question is if Paul only saw Christ appear to him and nothing more, why does that mean that we should trust his theological opinions unless there’s some passage in the bible somewhere where Christ also tells Paul that faith is needed ?
Appreciate so much btw your inputs – thanks very much. I feel like I am alone in this journey, but on this forum, I feel happy around you guys. Thank you once more.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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