Steefen said
And the navy of Hiram that brought gold from Ophir
also brought in from Ophir great plenty of almug (algum) trees,
and precious stones.
And the king made of the almug trees pillars for the house of the Lord …
almug trees such as these have not been seen unto this day.
1 Kings 10: 11-12EXPLANATION
Ophir had provided “David” and “Solomon” finely carved palm-frond pillars MADE FROM THE FINEST PINK GRANITE from Aswan. 21st Dynasty Temples in Tanis (not Jerusalem) had such pillars.
Pick up bottom of page 198
I am not seeing the connection between pink granite and anything you quoted from 1 Kings.
FocusMyView said
I am not seeing the connection between pink granite and anything you quoted from 1 Kings.
Pillars could not be made of almug trees, the pillars were made of granite shaped like trees. The author of the book we are going through says of the almug trees that Chronicles refers to them as a hewn, chiseled, or carved tree trunk. We are not looking for almug trees, pillars made of wood which could not have supported the roof of a large temple.
Let’s pick up with
The Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Egypt by Bill Manley
Part IV: The Late New Kingdom
The Road to Kadesh, p. 92
Remember where we left off in our biblical accuracy investigation.
Saul has been separated from the biblical David by hundreds of years.
What hundreds of years?
The biblical Saul is too close, biographically, to the historical Labaya/Labayu not to be him.
There was a David character in the Amarna Letters but the Amarna Letters do not say he succeeded Labaya.
The Bible does not say David was a direct successor to Saul.
Labaya dates to circa 1335 BCE. David dates to 990 BCE, a difference of 345 years.
935 BCE, we have Solomon. 931-913 BCE, we have Rehoboam.
North of Amarna, we get Memphis, the pyramids of Giza, the Egyptian Delta, the Negev, Judea and Israel (Retjenu), then Syria.
During the Amarna period, Jerusalem was in the Zone of Egyptian Influence. Labayu’s activity was north of Jerusalem in Shechem, Megiddo, and Galilee. Going up the Mediterranean Sea coast, we see the Zone of Egyptian Dominance (including from south to north, the area of Canaan.
The biblical Kadesh (Kadesh Barnea) south of Jerusalem. There also is a Kadesh north of Damascus, close to the Orontes River Valley.
1275 BCE, there is a Ramesses the Great / Ramesses II’s military campaign up there.
1180 BCE we have the Libyan Invasions and the Sea Peoples. Gaza is part of the Kingdom of Egypt. Even with the biblical Conquest of Canaan after Ramesses the Great which his historically inaccurate, the Israelites may be free from slavery in Egypt, along the Nile, or in the Delta, but they are not free from Egyptian Dominance.
During the times of Solomon and Rehoboam, Egypt is stepping/marching all around Palestine with a military campaign of Shoshenk I.
Shoshenk I is the biblical King Solomon or the biblical King Solomon is a composite character of historical fiction made up of the biblical King Solomon and the Egyptian pharaoh, Shoshenk I.
Why is this? Why would King Solomon – Pharaoh Shoshenk I have a military campaign all around Palestine?
Moses – born approximately 1535 BCE.
Moses – moved from the Northern Kingdom to the Southern Kingdom when his princess mother is married to a Southern Kingdom pharaoh. At age 40, he leaves the Southern Kingdom and goes into exile – 1495 BCE
Moses is in exile for 40 years but returns to his people in the Northern Kingdom – 1455 BCE
The Israelites are in the Sinai Wilderness for 40 years and Moses dies and Joshua takes over – 1415 BCE
= = =
So, Joshua and Jericho should not be dated at 1210 BCE or 1250 BCE.
= = =
Joshua 1415 BCE to David circa 990 BCE
Books of the Bible: Joshua to David is 425 years
Joshua > Judges > Ruth > 1 and 2 Samuel > 1 and 2 Kings > 1 and 2 Chronicles
No, Psalms nor Songs of Songs/Solomon immediately follow for chronological purposes. Chronicles is followed by Ezra (relating how God’s covenant people were restored from Babylonian exile ** you do not have permission to see this link **).
Joshua 1210 BCE to 1 Samuel gets us from Joshua to Saul 1335 BCE (Judges covers 125 years?)
Joshua 1210 BCE to 2 Samuel gets us from Joshua to David 990 BCE (Judges covers 220 years?)
I could definitely see Judges being the problem with dating. It seems like a patch work beyond compare. Its a collection of stories, not a definitive timeline.
Still I think the dating comes from the genealogies. Only a biblical literalist would take those seriously. Will have to make a note to look at genealogies to try and find a hint.
FocusMyView said
I could definitely see Judges being the problem with dating. It seems like a patch work beyond compare. Its a collection of stories, not a definitive timeline.Still I think the dating comes from the genealogies. Only a biblical literalist would take those seriously. Will have to make a note to look at genealogies to try and find a hint.
There are not enough generations now that the Exodus was not from Ramesses the Great.
= = =
Any comments about David being too far away from Saul?
For one, David and Saul’s son, Jonathan could not have been close friends. The Amarna Letters do speak of a son of Labayu being too friendly with the enemy, or something of that nature.
FocusMyView said
I think the Philistines are fairly well attested to by archeologists. Their dating is firm as far as southern Canaan is concerned. Now their origins in some places seem to be from up the Mediterranean coast. I will have to look that up at some point.
If we are talking about an Israelite king fighting Philistines, its probably the portion of the Sea Peoples the Pharoah settles in SW Canaan. I will have to look into the Amarna letters when I get some time.
I know Egypt was rich, but I cannot imagine that much gold being transferred annually between any two ancient nations: not as tribute, not as penalty, not for a marriage.
That much gold was coming from the Valley of the Kings and the Valley of the Queens graveyards.
FocusMyView said
Perhaps we have a Labayu in the Amarna period that the Saul of the Bible’s storyline is based on. The source for Saul may well be the Book of Jashar, since that is mentioned when Saul dies. The Dt historian usually mentions a source as he wraps up the story of a king’s life. I do think that the Book of Jashar is Egyptian, because of its use of the term “Hebrew” so often, instead of “Israelite”. (for examples, see the 1 Samuel mentions of “Hebrew”)
Since the archeology does not support the Saul and David battles with the Philistines, I guess we put them on the back burner for now.
I think the NT geneologies attest that Jesus is not from David, since he was not carried in Joseph’s womb!
You think The Book sof Jashar is Egyptian! ! !
Amen-ophis III and his son, Amen-ophis IV/Akhen-aten were in control of the Canaan area for the mayors of the city-states there AND in Syria were writing to him, calling him Lord.
The city states were being attacked by two parties: Harbiru rebels and Labayu (a figure with episodes of rebellious behavior against Egypt, vassal. So, no, Labayu was not fighting Philistines.
Jesus is both connected to David and not connected to David–there’s an ambiguity there.
Steefen said
You think The Book sof Jashar is Egyptian! ! !
Amen-ophis III and his son, Amen-ophis IV/Akhen-aten were in control of the Canaan area for the mayors of the city-states there AND in Syria were writing to him, calling him Lord.
The city states were being attacked by two parties: Harbiru rebels and Labayu (a figure with episodes of rebellious behavior against Egypt, vassal. So, no, Labayu was not fighting Philistines.Jesus is both connected to David and not connected to David–there’s an ambiguity there.
This publisher, by the cover of this publication of The Book of Jasher, thinks so, also:
qid=1581628599&sr=8-4
** you do not have permission to see this link **
FocusMyView said
So, the dead rise over our city? Perhaps. There seems to be a fascination with the living dead. All the mentions of the Rephaim seem to suggest death cults. Certainly the mainstream Egyptian cults might have been changed a little as practiced by those in southern Canaan.What is the source for this “official title” of David? I am finding only forums and such.
Also, many kings (and people in general) had names with fantastical meanings. I am not sure where David’s outlandish names leads us.
Pharaohs had five names. Wikipedia and encyclopedias usually list all five names of a pharaoh. Or, a good book on Egyptology or a biography of a pharaoh would have all five names.
FocusMyView said
So, the dead rise over our city? Perhaps. There seems to be a fascination with the living dead. All the mentions of the Rephaim seem to suggest death cults. Certainly the mainstream Egyptian cults might have been changed a little as practiced by those in southern Canaan.What is the source for this “official title” of David? I am finding only forums and such.
Also, many kings (and people in general) had names with fantastical meanings. I am not sure where David’s outlandish names leads us.
So, the dead rise over our city only if seba was replaced by djuat, referring to the land of the dead–but seba is not replaced by djuat.
Pharaoh Siamun is Solomon’s father-in-law of his Egyptian wife.
Sixth king of the 21st Dynasty
Defeated the city of Gesher of the Philistines.
Pharaoh Psusennes II is David,
also possible father-in-law of Solomon’s Egyptian wife but not father of Libyan Solomon.
Last King of the 21st Dynasty
Psusennes II ruled from Tanis. The City of David would therefore be Tanis.
Pharaoh Sheshonk I is Solomon.
Founder of the 22nd Libyan Dynasty
= = =
I gave up reading this thread after page six, because of the tedious amount of rudeness and bluster coming from one individual here.
So I didn’t see if there is any reference to Peter James’ book Centuries of Darkness (1991). If there, is I apologise. If not, here is a thumbnail. Conventional dating not only disproves Exodus as history but also requires a centuries-long ‘dark age’ in the Eastern Mediterranean for which there is no actual evidence. This is due to original mistakes in working out Egyptian chronology which have become standardised. If we were to lower the end of the Bronze Age by as much as 250 years, we would find that the Exodus account matches the archaeological record, and that there was no discontinuity in Greek, Anatolian and Levantine civilisation.
DirkCampbell said
I gave up reading this thread after page six, because of the tedious amount of rudeness and bluster coming from one individual here.So I didn’t see if there is any reference to Peter James’ book Centuries of Darkness (1991). If there, is I apologise. If not, here is a thumbnail. Conventional dating not only disproves Exodus as history but also requires a centuries-long ‘dark age’ in the Eastern Mediterranean for which there is no actual evidence. This is due to original mistakes in working out Egyptian chronology which have become standardised. If we were to lower the end of the Bronze Age by as much as 250 years, we would find that the Exodus account matches the archaeological record, and that there was no discontinuity in Greek, Anatolian and Levantine civilisation.
David Rohl speaks about the chronology problem.
Biblical Archaeology Society/Review speaks about the chronology problem.
Correction
from
Pharaoh Psusennes II is David,
also possible father-in-law of Solomon’s Egyptian wife but not father of Libyan Solomon.
Last King of the 21st Dynasty
Psusennes II ruled from Tanis. The City of David would therefore be Tanis.
to
Pharaoh Psusennes II is David,
not father of Libyan Solomon.
Pharaoh Psusennes II was the last king of the 21st Dynasty
Psusennes II ruled from Tanis. The City of David would therefore be Tanis.
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