More about rejecting Jesus as the messiah
- The Target: The Hebrew word minim broadly refers to “sectarians,” “heretics,” or “schismatics”. During the late first century—following the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE—the Jewish community faced steep internal fragmentation. The prayer was intended to weed out groups that threatened rabbinic unity or informed on fellow Jews to the Roman Empire, including Essenes, Gnostics, and notably, early Jewish Christians (often called Notzrim or Nazarenes). [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- The Litmus Test: The line was added to the Amidah (the Standing Prayer), which originally had 18 blessings. Adding this text brought the total to 19 blessings (though it is still referred to as the Shemoneh Esrei, meaning “The Eighteen”). If a prayer leader (cantor) omitted or stumbled through this specific paragraph, they were immediately suspected of being a heretic themselves and were removed from the pulpit. A Jewish Christian, for example, would not comfortably recite a prayer calling for their own destruction. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- The Parting of the Ways: Many historians connect this prayer to the gradual, painful separation between early Christianity and mainstream Judaism. Some New Testament scholars point to passages in the Gospel of John (written around 90–100 CE) that mention believers being “put out of the synagogue” as a direct reflection of this historical shift. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
So much has been said about being Jew based on the mother, but this video says Royal descent in Ancient Israel passes through the father.
Steefen
Well that is why we have two geneaologies?
Past Decoded YouTube Channel:
Jesus did not have a biological father so Jesus is not connected to King David through his stepfather, Joseph.
… I will make you like a signet ring for I have chosen you.
Jeremiah rejected Jannaih
Haggai reversed that, it seems.
Akiva’s messiah Kokhba was rejected when he died after three years of victories.
pick up at 18:09
According to Lila, who would never lie to me, matrilineal descent only became the norm in the Second Century of the Common Era. Historians speculate that the Rabbis, while compiling the Mishnah, were influenced by Roman legal concepts regarding mixed marriages where a child’s citizenship followed the mother’s status if one parent was a non-citizen. Not surprisingly Orthodox Jews trace this doctrine back to Moses. Reform Judaism accepts full Jewishness through either parent although such recognition is conditional on the child being raised Jewish.
I have a friend who was raised Roman Catholic by her Father and a Catholic stepmother. She only found out as an adult that her biological mother (whom she never knew) was Jewish. I’m sure you could have a nice argument over whether she was truly “Jewish” or not. I was surprised before she herself had kids when she asked me if I thought she should raise them as Jewish or Christian. I wasn’t sure why she asked me but I determined I should give her as serious an answer as I could. I told her that if that was my choice I would pick Judaism because it seemed much saner a religion than Christianity. Eventually she made the right decision I thought. She left it up to the kids.
Robert said
Steefen said
So much has been said about being Jew based on the mother, but this video says Royal descent in Ancient Israel passes through the father.
Steefen
Well that is why we have two geneaologies?No, both genealogies are patrilineal.
- Strict Matrilineal Descent: Both ** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Mixed Lineage: If the father is Jewish but the mother is not, the child is not automatically recognized as Jewish under this traditional law (Halakha) and must undergo a formal conversion process to be recognized as a full member of the religious community. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Either Parent Accepted: Progressive movements, such as ** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Active Upbringing Required: For patrilineal or matrilineal descent to be validated in these movements, the child must be actively raised and educated within a Jewish environment and make a personal commitment to a Jewish identity. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Verifiable Lineage: Historically, classical rabbinic authorities emphasized matrilineal descent because maternity is a biological certainty, whereas paternity was harder to verify with absolute certainty in ancient times. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Tribal Affiliation vs. Jewish Status: While general Jewish identity (being a Jew) follows the mother in traditional law, specific tribal lineage—such as being a Levite or a Kohen (priest)—continues to follow the paternal line. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Tribal Lineage: Royalty belongs exclusively to the Tribe of Judah, specifically through the lineage of King David. Tribal identity (Shevet) is strictly patrilineal.
- The Davidic Covenant: God’s covenant establishes that the royal throne belongs to David and his paternal descendants. A king’s eligibility to inherit the crown relies entirely on his father being the previous king or a direct paternal male heir in the Davidic line.
- The Prerequisite: While a prince inherited the right to rule from his father, he still had to be legally Jewish to be a king of Israel. Under traditional rabbinic law (Halakha), that foundational Jewish identity comes from the mother.
- The Queen Mother (Gevirah): Because of this, the mothers of Judean kings were highly significant. In the Biblical books of Kings and Chronicles, the text explicitly names the mother of almost every single King of Judah (e.g., “His mother’s name was Naamah; she was an Ammonite”). Scholars note this was recorded precisely to verify the king’s legitimacy and lineage.
| Type of Identity | Follows the… | What it Determines |
|---|---|---|
| Jewish Identity | Mother | Whether the person is biologically/legally a member of the Jewish people. |
| Tribal & Royal Status |
The Talmud discusses why someone like Agrippa rising to King was against Jewish rules but I haven’t deep dived it to see if it’s the matrilineal thing.
Thanks for the composite nudge Steefen. I looked at the Book of Revelation after seeing your forum title “Campbellian composite” and the composite idea helped me potentially decode Revelation’s investiture scene:
• Little Lamb is Rabbel
• Lamb/God is Malichus
• Worthy is Shaqilat
It seems to be using Mesopotamian-Arab syncretism.
So Revelation 9 angel 5’s troops would use “Bedouins as Pazuzu” imagery as one of the Jewish-Roman war auxillary responses
*crunches guitar* my AI told me I got it wrong, the Bedouins are the Girtablilu, the Scorpion-men.
(and Pazazu maps closer to the bhad guy that unleashes the five troup groups or whatever.)
This is why I keep it clean on my own thread haha.
So, Eastern auxillary troops gathered from client kingdoms typically gathered at the Euphrates, ergo they are gathered at the Euphrates in Revelation.
Great Revelation (Hawran Gawaitha) seems to discuss the period much more plainly than Revelation.
And Jesus isn’t just “prophesizing” Jerusalem’s judgement in Revelation afaik:
Rev 9:1
• he authorizes the opening of the abyss
Rev 9:14
• he unbinds the four angels at the Euphrates (client kings and their troops gathered at the Euphrates?) to unleash on unrepentant Jerusalem
Rev 19:11-16
• he’s on a white warhorse wearing many royal crowns (diadēmata), with eyes like blazing fire and robes dipped in red stuff, leading the “armies of heaven”
I mean, I didn’t read that book for a reason. I like peace stuff.
So yeah I don’t quite understand why Jewish people or Christian people don’t think that Revelation’s Jesus leading the ‘armies of heaven’ in Rev 19:14 wasn’t a mythologized actual Jewish Roman war (68-70), seeing as Baal Shamin, the Lord of Heaven was the common deity of hand-waves the actual area that the auxillaries were coming from.
I don’t much understand Revelation. I never have.
One thing that I’ve thought was rather funny: at the end of Revelation, there’s this New Jerusalem coming down out of the sky. This city is like 1500 miles cubed. Like it reaches up to the satellites in outer space. Now what if it is actually connected to satellites and is like the Israeli Iron Dome, but it protects an area that is 1500 miles long, wide, and high? Then I’m like, I want one. . . just saying. . .
To be specific, the Lord of Heaven is the Hawran deity (Seia temple) , so the angel troops led by Jesus would be groups from the Hawran, not like King Commagene auxillaries or whatever.
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Oh and who runs the Hawran.
I regularly ask myself, why care about the past? I’m very future- and present-spirituality oriented, women’s empowerment to do things that are fun for women, men’s empowerment to do things that are fun for women.
Decoding has been overall fun though.
Just wish there was a history of the world where increasing quality of life was the focus, A mythologized Better Angels of Our Nature
So the underground refuge in Revelation is probably the underground city of Edrei/Adraha in the Hawran. Midyat would be later.
Helen Young said
I don’t much understand Revelation. I never have.
One thing that I’ve thought was rather funny: at the end of Revelation, there’s this New Jerusalem coming down out of the sky. This city is like 1500 miles cubed. Like it reaches up to the satellites in outer space. Now what if it is actually connected to satellites and is like the Israeli Iron Dome, but it protects an area that is 1500 miles long, wide, and high? Then I’m like, I want one. . . just saying. . .
Cube
that’s the operative word
it’s in the shape of a NW Arabian betyl. But you know the grand sizes and amounts and directions that English translators give Revelation seem to rely on “turns of phrase” thst might read differently to a pre-Islamic Arabian or NW Arabian.
Like “myriads of myriads” being read as as a solid 200M haha
picking up at 18:09
End of Video
= = = =
What is the conclusion after watching Why Jews Rejected Jesus as the Messiah?
Answer:
Jesus was not the Messiah.
= = = =
- Matthew 16:16: Simon Peter answers, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
- Mark 8:29: Peter says to him, “You are the Messiah” (confirmed by Jesus in subsequent verses).
- Mark 14:61–62: The high priest asks Jesus, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” and Jesus replies, “I am.”
- John 1:41: Andrew tells his brother Simon, “We have found the Messiah” (translated as Christ).
- John 4:25–26: The Samaritan woman says, “I know that Messiah” is coming, and Jesus responds, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”
- John 11:27: Martha declares, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world”. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- By Angels at His Birth: In ** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- By Simeon in the Temple: In ** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- By Peter’s Confession: Mirroring Matthew and Mark, in ** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- The Synagogue at Nazareth: In ** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- The Trial Before the Sanhedrin: In ** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- The Road to Emmaus: After his resurrection in ** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Status of the title: Absent. The ** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Closest parallel: Saying 13 features Thomas addressing Jesus (“Master, my mouth is not capable of saying what you are like”), prompting Jesus to say he is no longer Thomas’s master because Thomas has drunk from the bubbling spring he measured out, but the title “Messiah” is never spoken.
- Status of the title: Absent. The ** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Context: The text opens by identifying the narrative as “The secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke…” but does not employ the title “Messiah” or “Christ,” referring to him instead as “Jesus” or “the Savior”. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Status of the title: Absent from the core narrative/dialogue, though added marginally by modern translators. In ancient Coptic manuscripts of the Apocryphon of John, the text is presented as a revelation given by the Savior/Lumiary to John. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Context: While some modern transitional summaries or appended editorial notes (such as closing benedictions added by modern copyists or translators) might use the conventional phrase “Jesus the Christ”, the actual internal dialogue and Gnostic cosmological discourse do not designate Jesus as the Jewish “Messiah.” [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
The canonical gospels say Jesus was the Messiah. The canonical gospels are wrong.
They do not say Jesus met the Jewish tests/qualifications for being the Messiah.
The Parable of the Wicked Tenants says the vineyard owner’s son (the Messiah) is killed by the wicked tenants.
Tests / Qualification for Being the Messiah and Reasons for Rejected Jesus as the Messiah
#1 The world did not change.
#2 In traditional Judaism, the Messiah (Mashiach) is expected to rebuild the Holy Temple in Jerusalem. This act is considered one of the defining signs that the true messianic era has arrived.
- Zechariah 6:12–13: This text speaks of a future figure named the “Branch” (Tzemach), a well-established Hebrew title for the Davidic Messiah.
“Here is the man whose name is the Branch, and he will branch out from his place and build the temple of the Lord. It is he who will build the temple of the Lord, and he will be clothed with majesty and will sit and rule on his throne.”
[** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- 2 Samuel 7:12–13 / 1 Chronicles 17:11–12: In the Nathan Prophecy, God promises King David that an offspring will succeed him. While it directly applied to Solomon building the First Temple, traditional commentators view its absolute scope (“I will establish his throne forever”) as an ultimate messianic promise.
“When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you… He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.”
[** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Ezekiel 40–48: Rather than stating a direct “how-to” command, the Prophet Ezekiel spends nine full chapters outlining a hyper-detailed architectural blueprint for a magnificent future Temple. Because the historical Second Temple did not match these vast proportions, classic tradition dictates that this “Third Temple” must be constructed by the Messiah during the ** you do not have permission to see this link **]
“If a king arises from the house of David… and builds the Sanctuary in its place and gathers the dispersed of Israel—this is definitively the Messiah.” [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
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