What city name does the Old Syriac have in Acts xxi. 7?
Does the Old Syriac have heathen/ pagan anywhere in the NT?
Greek mss. have ‘politically-correct’ references to non-Judeans, and have a particular place’s more-current name;
in contrast, the Aramaic Peshitta has ‘politically-_in_correct’ references to non-Judeans, and has a particular place’s antiquated name.
“kh-n-p-th-a” — godless, gentile, heathen, foreigner, profane.
Lexeme 1:1096 appears in
Matthew 6:7, 10:5, 18:17
Mark 7:26
John 7:35
Acts 18:4, 18:17
1Cor 5:1, 10:20, 10:27, 12:2
1Peter 4:3
Norton, William. 1889. _A Translation, in English Daily Used, of the Peshito-Syriac Text, and of the Received Greek Text, of Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, and 1 John, With an Introduction on the Peshito-Syriac Text, and the Revised Greek Text of 1881_ (London: W.K. Bloom), ~140pp. What’s below is from a Google books copy; the book is also at
** you do not have permission to see this link **
In the Introduction, pages l – li:
In the names of places, the Peshito shows the same independence of the Greek. . . . . in Acts xxi. 7, the Gk. has, Ptolemais; the Syriac has, Acu.
Mr. Jer. Jones, in his work on the Canon, 1798, contends that the use of the name Acu, for Ptolemais, is a decisive proof that the Peshito must have been made not far in time from A.D. 70, when Jerusalem was destroyed. (vol. i. p. 103.) He says that the most ancient name of this place among the Israelites was Aco, or Acco, Judges i.31; that this name was afterwards changed to Ptolemais; that some say it had its new name from Ptolemy Philadelphus, about 250 B.C. He says it is certain that the old name Aco, was antiquated and out of use in the time of the Romans, and that the use of the old name Acu, in the Peshito, can be accounted for in no other way, but by supposing that the persons for whom the version was made were more acquainted with it, than with the new name Ptolemais; that upon any other supposition it would have been absurd for him to have used Acu. He says, that until the destruction of Jerusalem, one may suppose that the Jews may have retained the old name Aco still, out of fondness for its antiquity; but, he says,
“how they, or any other part of Syria, could, after the Roman conquest, call it by a name different from the Romans, seems to me impossible to conceive. . . To suppose, therefore, that this translation, in which we meet with this old name, instead of the new one, was made at any great distance of time after the destruction of Jerusalem, is to suppose the translator to have substituted an antiquated name known to but few, for a name well known to all” (pp. 104, 105.)
Mr. Jones says that a similar proof that the Peshito cannot have been made much after A.D. 70, is found in the fact that the Peshito often calls the Gentiles, as the Jews were accustomed to do, _profane persons_, where the Greek calls them _the nations_, that is, the Gentiles. The Peshito calls them profane, in Matt. vi.7; x.5; xviii.17; Mark vii.26; John vii.35; Acts xviii.4, 17; 1 Cor. v.1; x.20, 27; xii.2; 1 Pet. iv.3. The expression is used, therefore, throughout the Peshito. Mr. Jones says, that it shows that the writer was a Jew, for no other person would have called all the world profane; and that after the destruction of the temple, all Hebrew Christians must have seen that other nations were not to be reckoned unclean and profane in the Jewish sense, and that therefore this version must have been made either before, or soon after, A.D. 70. (On Canon, Vol. i., pp. 106-110.)
How do you account for the geographical details present in the Peshitta, but lacking in Greek mss.?
What letters are had in the Old Syriac for these geographical locations?
Capernaum. Bethania. Bethphage. Bethesda in John v.2.
Johann David Michaelis, _Introduction to the New Testament, tr., and augmented with notes (and a Dissertation on the origin and composition of the three first gospels)_ as translated by Herbert Marsh, 4 vols., vol. 2 part 1 (1802), 43-44
** you do not have permission to see this link **
In the Curæ, in Act. Apost. § vi. p. 73, 74. I have taken notice of certain traces in the Syriac version, which lead to the supposition of its having been made by a native Jew. To the reasons alleged in that treatise, which I submit to the determination of my readers, I will add, that the Syriac translator appears to have been so well acquainted with Palestine, that he must at least have visited that country, for he has frequently restored geographical names in the Greek Testament to their true Oriental orthography. Capernaum is written in the Syriac Testament … , that is, the village of Nahum; Bethania, is written … ; Bethphage is written … , which perfectly corresponds to its situation, for … , in Arabic, signifies ‘a valley between two opposite mountains,’ an etymology which alone removes a contradiction which was supposed to exist between the New Testament and the Talmud ; and Bethesda, John v.2. is written … , which is probably conformable to the derivation, whether we translate it ‘place of favour,’ or ‘place of the conflux of waters.’ The Syriac version therefore is the surest, and indeed the only guide, in discovering the etymology of geographical names, for the Arabic versions are too modern, and in other translations it was impossible to preserve the orthography of the East.
“The Old Syriac is only extant in two manuscripts of the gospels. No Acts or letters”
C = Codex Nitriensis Curetonianus
S = Codex Palimpsestus Sinaiticus
— per _The Old Syriac Gospels: Studies and Comparative Translations (vol. 1, Matthew and Mark) (Eastern Christian Studies)_ (2003), 381pp. by E. Jan Wilson, xv
on 48
Mt 6:7
S6.7 “saying vain things like the heathen, who”
C6.7 “babbling like the hypocrites, for they”
on 78
Mt 10:5
S10.5 “walk in the way of gentiles”
No mention of C.
on 168
Mt 18:17
S18.17 “consider him like a heathen”
C18.17 “consider him like a heathen”
on 310
Mark 7:26
S7.26 “That woman was a widow from the area of Tyre of Phoenicia, and she pleaded with him to cast the spirit out of her daughter.”
No mention of C.
“there are some who still believe the Peshitta is older than the current general consensus of critical scholars”
According to “the current general consensus of critical scholars,” what is the age of the NT Peshitta? And from what was it translated?
“It is generally held that the Syriac translation of the Jewish scriptures was made directly from the Hebrew”
and the Aramaic e.g. in Daniel– I agree for the OT.
“and perhaps this influenced translation of New Testament books as well. Perhaps this, or other semitic cultural influences, introduced some of these apparently archaic usages into the Syriac translations of New Testament books as well”
When quoting Isaiah 42:2, from where did the Greek Matthew 12:19 get “quarrel”?
(the Masoretic? the LXX? the Peshitta Matthew 12:19?)
_The Old Syriac Gospels: Studies and Comparative Translations (vol. 1, Matthew and Mark) (Eastern Christian Studies)_ (2003), 381pp. by E. Jan Wilson, lvi
Matt. 12:19…. The word used in the Greek text is ερισει “quarrel,” which cannot have been taken either from the Hebrew Masoretic text (which has the word …), nor from the LXX (which has ανησει)….
Matthew 12:19 (Berean Literal Bible)
** you do not have permission to see this link **
** you do not have permission to see this link **
He will not quarrel [Greek: οὐκ/ouk/not ἐρίσει/ erisei/ will He quarrel] nor will he cry out;
nor will anyone hear His voice in the streets.
Isaiah 42:2 interlinear
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Not יִצְעַ֖ק/yiṣ-‘aq/He-will-cry-out nor יִשָּׂ֑א/yiś-śā/raise-[His-voice]
nor cause to be heard in the street His voice
Isaiah 42:2 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
** you do not have permission to see this link **
He shall not cry, nor lift up,
Nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
Isaiah 42:2 (HCSB)
** you do not have permission to see this link **
He will not cry out or shout
or make His voice heard in the streets.
Isaiah 42:2 (Brenton Septuagint)
** you do not have permission to see this link **
He shall not cry, nor lift up _his voice_,
nor shall his voice be heard without.
Isaiah 42:2 (LXX)
οὐ κεκράξεται οὐδὲ ἀνήσει,
οὐδὲ ἀκουσθήσεται ἔξω ἡ φωνὴ αὐτοῦ.
Isaiah 42:2 (Peshitta Tanakh, Lamsa)
** you do not have permission to see this link **
He shall not cry, nor make a sound,
nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
Isaiah 42:2, in _Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated for the First Time into English_, translated and with commentary by Martin Abegg Jr., Peter Flint & Eugene Ulrich (1999), 649pp., 337
He will not cry out or raise his voice
or make it heard in the street.
Matthew 12:19
** you do not have permission to see this link **
(Etheridge) He shall not contend nor cry,
And no man shall hear his voice in the street.
(Murdock) He shall not contend, nor be clamorous,
nor shall any one hear his voice in the market-place.
(Lamsa) He will not argue, nor will he cry aloud;
and no man will hear his voice in the street.
(KJV) He shall not strive, nor cry;
neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
** you do not have permission to see this link **
ḥry vb. Gt to maintain a position
C View a KWIC
1 to urge to hold fast to a position Syr. IS 48:14 .
2 to prepare (?) Syr. P Job10:17 ….
Gt View a KWIC
1 to cling tightly, get stuck Syr. EphFid 81:12.3…. if the boat got stuck the waves broke it up. P Acts27:41 …. the ship tried to go into a high spot between two sea-depths, but got stuck. (a) fig. : to be eager for something Syr. JulSok 31(12):10 …. nor was he eager to enter once he had learned our desire.
2 fig.: to contend, disagree strongly CPA, Syr. AphDem5.101:4 …. P Is1:20 …. P Acts12:15 ….
while she was insisting that it was thus. (a) …. to litigate Syr. P Gn49:23 : ….
Derivatives:
…. adj. contentious …. n.f. litigiousness …. n.m. controversy …. n.f. contentiousness …. adj. contentious …. adv. contentiously …. n.f. squabble
“predominant opinion is early fifth century”
Evidence/ arguments for that date for the NT Peshitta?
“The Peshitta is generally thought to be a revision of the Old Syriac and the Diatesseron for the gospels”
I find it hard to believe that anybody seriously thinks that the Diatesseron was untangled to come up with the Peshitta’s 4 gospels.
Evidence for thinking that the Peshitta is:
“a revision of the Old Syriac”?
“a revision of… the Diatesseron”?
“and translation from Greek manuscripts for most of the rest of the New Testament”
What language do you think Revelation was originally written in? (Greek?)
“Some parts of the New Testament were still left out until a later version in the early sixth century (eg, Philoxenos)”
Which parts “were still left out”?
“Matthew 12:19 get ‘quarrel’”
“How would one prove that the Peshitta did not get it from the Greek?”
Maybe I can come up with some arguments.
‘Quarrel’ might have appeared first in:
Aramaic and then Greek,
Greek and then Aramaic,
some other language and then Greek and then Aramaic,
some other language and then Aramaic and then Greek.
In the Aramaic, Mt’s rendition of the Lord’s Prayer has much rhyming. The Aramaic Lk’s version has less rhyming. I didn’t notice any rhyming in the Greek nor a Hebrew version.
Do you think that it’s possible that someone translated a non-rhyming Greek Lord’s Prayer into a rhyming Aramaic Lord’s Prayer?
What language do you think the lord’s prayer was originally in?
A transliteration of the Aramaic Mt 6:9-13:
Ah-woon ** our Father
d’wash-may-ya ** in heaven
============================
nith-qad-dash shmakh ** holy be Your name
teh’-theh’ ** come
mal-koo-thakh ** Your kingdom
neh-weh ** be done
tsow-ya-nakh ** Your will
============================
ay-kan-na ** as
d’wash-may-ya ** in heaven
ap b’ar-aa ** so on earth.
11 ============================
haw lan ** give us
lakh-ma ** the bread
d’son-qa-nan ** of our need
yo-ma-na ** this day
12 ============================
ow’shwoq lan ** and forgive us
khow-beyn ** our offences
ay-kan-na d’ap kha-nan ** as also we
shwa-qan ** have forgiven
l’khay-ya-wen ** those who have offended us
13 ============================
ow’la ** and not
ta’-lan ** bring us
l’nis-you-na ** into trial
al-la pas-san ** but deliver us
min bee-sha ** from the evil one
============================
modt-dtil d’dee-lak ** for of yours
hee mal-koo-tha ** is the Kingdom
ow’khay-la ** and the power
ow’tish-bokh-tha ** and the glory
l’al-um ail-meen. ** to the age (of) ages, or: to the world (of) worlds
Mt 6:10’s “as” uses the letters “aikna,” while Lk 11:2’s “as” uses “aik.”
Also, Mt 6:11 uses “yomna”– this day, daily– while Lk 11:3 instead uses “klium”– every day, daily.
Hence, in at least 2 places, the Luke version means the same, but has less-perfect rhyming compared with the Matthew version.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
2 Guest(s)