Robert said
But Mark is not John’s gospel, whose ‘I am’ statements are so very much more explicit.

  

But they’re not explicit.

“Before Abraham was I AM” is not explicitly claiming the name of the Lord.

If the question is asked “which gospels contains evidence of Jesus claiming the name of the Lord?” then there is no more explicit case than Mark’s “many will come in my name saying I AM”.

jaihare said

In this case, it means claiming to be the Messiah. People will come saying that they are the Christ. I don’t know who any deceiver would be, though. Jesus wasn’t himself the Messiah. There never has been one, nor does it appear that there ever will be one. However, lots of loonies have thought they were the Messiah and declared it to others. Aren’t there parallel passages to Mark 13:6 in the Synoptic Gospels? Did you check how they worded this? Hint: Look at Matt 24:5 and Luke 21:8 to see what it clearly means.

Yes but apparently we’re not allowed use other gospels to understand Mark.

But you’re correct the original version is εγω ειμι ο χριστος found in Matthew. And Mark/Luke have removed ο χριστος to make the claim to the divine name completely explicit and undeniable.

Robert said

 

I am merely speaking about Mark’s understanding of these words in his text. It is indeed possible Mark intends something of an allusion to Yahweh’s own self identification in Mk 14,62 (very much a minority position among scholars), but I absolutely reject that this is in any way evidence that Jesus himself would have ever made such a claim. John’s use of his ‘I am’ statements is much more explicitly an expression of Jesus’ extraordinary claim to divinity in the gospel of John and this is strong consensus among scholars, but again we are only speaking of John’s own theology here, not the historical Jesus. In the statement from John that you cite here, Jesus is claiming to have had this divine identity prior to the existence of Abraham. There is nothing like this in Mark. Another time in the gospel of John, Jesus’ use of the ‘I am’ statement causes the cohort of Roman soldiers to fall to the ground. In Mark, the very opposite happens. His blasphemy before the high priest essentially signs his own death warrant. 

  

Mark has Jesus say εγω ειμι three times in his gospel (which may or may not be coincidence – though Matthew and Luke also have Jesus say it three times, with none of the three sets exactly matching up).

Mark’s “fear not I AM” an obvious reference to Isaiah, “many will come in my name saying I AM”, during a description of the end-times and day of the Lord, and “I AM” in response to whether he is the son of the blessed one, are all referencing the divine. Accepting that one first century christian writer had Jesus claim I AM as a divine name for himself, why deny that Mark is doing the same?

Luke’s three uses

Luke 21:8 – Jesus claims about his own name

Luke 22:70 – referencing God as a father

Luke 24:39 – after the disciples filled with fear had thought they saw a πνεῦμα

Robert said

 

Reading comprehension, Bren. I didn’t deny it. As I said above, I think John may have gotten the idea from Mark. 

  

But in any particular instance why deny it. If Mark is aware of the idea of I AM being used as a divine name for Jesus surely he’s aware of the implication of “many will come in my name saying I AM” – especially when he uses those words so sparingly.

Robert said
At best it is an allusion in Mark, known mostly from the Markan structure at Mk 14,62 and the immediate charge of blasphemy. It is certainly not the most obvious reading at Mk 13,6. Even those scholars in the minority who hold that this is the primary way of interpreting Mk 6,50 and 14,62 recognize this about 13,6. You can’t see this because it is part of your obsession with Matthean priority and your obsession with Jesus actually having been given the name Yahweh (Philippians 2). It is pointless to argue with people who are obsessed. Here, even the fact that Mark expresses this idea so sparingly seems somehow to function as a sign of its importance for you. That’s silly.  

Mark 14:62 leads to his immediate death sentence. The response to John 8:58 is they pick up stones to stone him.

Mark 13:13, 7 verses after 13:6 “everyone will hate you on account of my name but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved”.

What is the end? it’s the day of the lord when he will gather his elect. So Jesus as Lord will save those who were hated on account of his name.

Are these just irrelevancies that only an obsessive would care about?

If you admit Mark understands I AM as a name for the lord what possible reason could there be for denying that’s how he’s using it in Mark 13:6?

Do you accept that Mark believes “Jesus as Lord will save at the end those who were hated on account of his name”? 

Robert said
Irrelevancies? No. Please try not to misrepresent what I have said. An allusion to Yahweh’s own self-identification perhaps, but Yahweh is not the name of Jesus in Mark’s gospel and there is no clear citation of Exodus 3. There is a clear citation of Daniel 7 and there may be Jewish traditions at play here, but those are very hard to date. 

  

I don’t understand what you’re saying?

Do you think Mark 14:62 is a reference to exodus 3?

Do you think the gospel of John has Jesus claim the divine name, even though John himself never clearly cites exodus 3?

Do you judge Mark 13:6 differently give that Mark does clearly cite exodus 3 in Mark 12:26?

Do you accept that Mark believes “jesus as lord will save at the end those who were hated because of his name”?

jakejones said
so you saying people who identified themselves as “i am” were claiming to be yhwh? 

“everyone will hate you on account of my name”

so a false “i am” comes along and is hated on account of his name? 

No but it was possible to claim to be yahweh by claiming “I AM” as your name.

The structure of the sentence would be a good indicator.

If someone said ‘I AM going to galilee’ they wouldnt be claiming divinity but if they said ‘before abraham was I AM’ they would be.

Its believing and preaching in the name of Jesus that would make the disciples hated, not making false claims to the name itself.