Jesus is a literary creation on the skeleton of Julius Caesar.
Julius Caesar was a good man with military victories (good news, gospel).
He was of a culture and a status in that culture such that he was honored as a god.
His assassination would not be accepted, hence a liturgy of his personality and victories was developed commemoration services
[Roman Leader Church, with Son of God Augustus, we get the first emperor and Roman Leader Church turns into Imperial Cult Church].
His heir, piggy-backed on his success and we get the God Julius Caesar (divine descendant of Venus) and
Son of God Augustus (also declared divine).
Before the Son of God Augustus, there were temples and commemorations of Julius Caesar throughout the Roman Empire.
After about 100 years, after the children of Julius Caesar’s contemporaries see their parents die and after their children see them die, after three generations, the details of the Julius Caesar liturgy need to be generalized (because crossing the Rubicon and other military miracles are no longer relevant icons).
The Jewish Civil War and The Jewish Revolt makes Julius Caesar’s life even more distant, but Judaism has caught the attention of the religion makers.
Judaism has antiquity. Let’s do a Julius Caesar-Augustus Caesar Imperial Cult Church Refresh with a Jew as Caesar and that way God the Father and God the Son will stick. We will generalize the details of Julius Caesar’s life via mythologies, miracles, and relocations of events and at the same time rewrite Jewish militant messianism into a more peaceful messianism.
Okay: that is a plan. Make sure the itinerant preachers (preachers with traveling itineraries) of the imperial cults begin the switch. All of their great sermons have to lose the Julius Caesar details, become generalized and mythologized into a Jewish Jesus but their new narrative must have the skeleton of Julius Caesar and the life of Julius Caesar at its core. Throw some great Hellenism on it, like the Homeric Epics, The Bacchae, Socrates, and for the sake of Alexandria, some Serapis-Osiris. Be sure, that although we are using Judaism for its antiquity, Judaism’s God’s tendency for rebellion, exodus, and deliverance–that remembrance– loops to failure. What do you think?
Well, from the apocalypse of Jerusalem, there was cannibalism, the most famous of which was the cannibalism by Mary of her son. Hm, the son of Mary. Putting cannibalism in the liturgy certainly crashes the Jewish religion in Christianity, just see Leviticus 17: 10-11.
Julius Caesar’s victory in Gaul, what sounds like Gaul in Palestine. Well, there’s Galilee. Is it north of Jerusalem? Yes. Good: we have Gaul, north of Rome: we have Galilee, north of Jerusalem. We double Caesar’s military victories (gospel) with Vespasian and Titus’s victorious battles in the Jewish-Roman War (gospel). There is an apocalypse of Temple Judaism. Their revolt made us crucify many so let the Jewish stand-in for Julius Caesar also get crucified.
But there were no processions in those crucifixions.
You’re right. I have it: who was greater than Julius Caesar but Romulus. Romulus had his procession carrying a tropaeum. Let’s have Jesus carry an equally heavy cross–to his crucifixion.
Run with that?
Got it.
Get this written down.
The first write-down was the Gospel of Mark.
Then, we thought we needed to be more persuasive with the Jewish antiquity angle, so the next write-down was the Gospel of Matthew.
How a non-historical-account can be meaningful – the death of Jesus in Mark
The Bart Ehrman Blog
Steefen: Jesus says nothing the entire time until the very end, when he utters the wretched cry, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani, which Mark translates from the Aramaic for his readers, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Dr. Ehrman, couldn’t that have been a literary device: give the dying character last words when there weren’t any?
Dr. Ehrrman:
Yes indeed.
Dr. Ehrman’s Position on Whether or Not Jesus Was Made Up, Blog Post of 6/20/2017
(Paraphrased)
There is a difference between shaping a story and inventing a story.
It is very easy indeed for us today to shape stories of important historical figures when we speak about them. We have standard sets of motifs: for example, the “rags to riches” story or the “tragic hero” story.
Even if you could show that all the stories about Jesus were shaped in light of the OT, that would have no bearing on whether he existed or not.
There are three points that need to be made about all the parallels that exist between the stories of Jesus and the stories of others.
#1 There were indeed a number of similarities between the ways Christians talked about Jesus and the ways pagans (and in some instances, Jews) talked about other “sons of God.” There is no point denying this. We have stories of other “divine men” from antiquity who were thought to have been supernaturally born; to have been preternaturally wise, religiously, while still youths; to have engaged in itinerate preaching ministries; to have done miracles such as miraculously feeding the hungry, casting out demons, healing the sick, raising the dead; and at the end of their lives to have ascended to heaven. These other stories do exist (and not just about Apollonius of Tyana.)
#2 The fact that Jesus was talked about in ways similar to how others were talked about (Alexander the Great; the Emperor Vespasian; Apollonius; and so on) does not mean Jesus did not exist. If you wanted to tell stories about a figure you considered to be more than human, to be in some sense divine, these are the kinds of stories you told. That means that the stories about Jesus may well have been shaped by the expectations of the Jewish and pagan audiences to whom they were told, so that one needs to take that into account when deciding what actually happened in Jesus’ life. But as I have already indicated, this is unrelated to the question of whether Jesus actually existed.
#3 All of these figures (Alexander the Great; the Emperor Vespasian; Apollonius; and so on) about whom such stories were told were also different in key ways from one another. They were not all the same. The stories varied from one person to the next. The stories about Jesus are different in many ways from the others. Everything said about Jesus cannot be paralleled in the myths and legends told about other divine figures on earth. A number of the key stories about Jesus are in fact unique to him, including some of the most important.
For Example
The beginning of Matthew’s Gospel shapes the stories about Jesus to make Jesus appear to be a kind of “second Moses.”
Like Moses,
1) Jesus is supernaturally protected at his birth when the ruler (Pharaoh/Herod) seeks to destroy him
2) he goes down to Egypt as an infant
3) he comes up out of Egypt to the promised land
4) he passes through the waters (the parting of the Red Sea; the baptism)
5) after which he spends time in the wilderness being “tested” (40 years; 40 days)
6) after which he goes up on the mountain to receive/deliver the Law (Mount Sinai; Sermon on the Mount).
The story of Jesus has evidently been “shaped” in light of the author’s knowledge of the story of Moses in order to say something: Jesus is the new Moses.
mreichert You certainly are not creating any converts based on the lack of actual responses to your postings.
Steefen Again, you are in error; and, we have no time for your disruptions to this thread: I and others will no longer see your input. Please do the same.
Congratulations mreichart! You have joined the growing list consisting of those of us who have been cast into outer darkness by Steefen. Who Steefen’s “we” are I am too frightened to ask.
Me, I would never block Steefen. I don’t want him sneaking up on me. Besides his frenzied ramblings are entertaining. Sometimes.
19) For Both, a Person Whose Name Relates to Rock Calls Him a Title He Is Shy to Accept
Lepidus suggested that Julius Caesar be made dictator. Julius Caesar was appointed dictator.
Lapidis in Latin is stone.
[Don’t tell people that is my title. I want a different job: consul.]
Julius Caesar resigned the post of dictator after 11 days and became a consul.
Jesus asked, who do you say I am?
Peter answered, you are the Christ.
Peter, you are the rock.
Jesus warned do not tell anyone.
Mark 8: 29
Matthew 16: 18
Mark 8: 30
Giving a title to #18
Julius Caesar’s autocratic leadership style and disdain for the Senate (leading to his death)
Jesus Christ’s autocratic leadership style and disdain for the Pharisees and the Temple authorities (leading to his death)
21 Similarities between Julius Caesar & Clementia and Jesus Christ
1. Priestly Authority
2. Went out on the water and reassured men they could cross
3. Forgiveness and Mercy towards Enemies
4. Taking Care of the Poor
5. Enduring Persecutions
6. Beheaded Mentor
7. Betrayal by Friend/Friends
8. Awareness of Impending Death
9. Does Not Put Up a Fight against the Plot to Take His Life
10. Desires No Delay When the End Comes
11. Pierced/stabbed by Longinus
12. Wreath placed on each of their heads
13: Both died in the middle of the month in which Passover is recognized.
14. Both disavowed kingship in the world of the living
15. Julius Caesar adopts a son, Octavian, Augustus Caesar: Jesus Christ adopts a son, John the Beloved
16a. Symbol of John the Evangelist is the eagle: Symbol of Octavian, Augustus Caesar is the eagle.
16b. Symbol of Mark the Evangelist is the lion: Symbol of Mark Antony is the lion.
17. A Goddess in Polytheism is pleased with Julius Caesar. A Monotheistic God is pleased with Jesus Christ.
18. Both have an autocratic leadership style and a disdain for governing bodies (leading to their deaths).
19) For Both, a Person Whose Name Related to Rock Calls Him a Title He Is Shy to Accept
Lepidus suggested that Julius Caesar be made dictator. Julius Caesar was appointed dictator.
Lapidis in Latin is stone.
[Don’t tell people that is my title. I want a different job: consul.]
Julius Caesar resigned the post of dictator after 11 days and became a consul.
Jesus asked, who do you say I am?
Peter answered, you are the Christ.
Peter, you are the rock.
Jesus warned, do not tell anyone.
Mark 8: 29
Matthew 16: 18
Mark 8: 30
#20 Both Save a Woman Caught in Adultery
Jesus Christ/Julius Caesar Saves the Woman Caught in Adultery
Steefen
English: A Lame Person
Latin: Claudo Vicinus
Julius Caesar “Heals Clodios”
Jesus Heals the Lame
Healing the Lame/Clodios
In order to maintain the parallels between the life of Julius Caesar and the Gospels, proper names turn into generic names. One Claudius stands out: Publius Clodius Pulcher.
Julius Caesar’s Biography
There was a house, Julius Caesar’s house.
Clodius entered the house but not through the front door.
He entered with the help of servants.
He wanted to commit the sin of making his lay with Julius Caesar’s wife.
Julius Caesar told him to take what you did laying a bed in my house and walk free.
Julius Caesar forgave the man which also cleared Julius Caesar’s wife, but he divorced her also.
Accusers were horrified at the forgiveness.
The Gospel of Mark
There was a house.
A man entered the house but not through the front door.
He entered the house by the help of servants lowering him through the roof.
The lame man, on his mat, lay on the floor–on his mat of a bed.
Jesus said your sin is forgiven. Arise, and take your mat and walk.
Scribes were horrified at the forgiveness.
FOLLOW-UP
Julius Caesar forgives the woman (his wife) caught in adultery (or the appearance of adultery).
Jesus Christ forgives the woman caught in adultery.
This is why the Woman caught in adultery can be added later into the New Testament: because the biography of Julius Caesar is the standard.
Let’s look again at Bart Ehrman’s post:
** you do not have permission to see this link **
#21
Julius Caesar Takes Value from Saturn’s Temple
Jesus Christ Also Takes Something of Value from Saturn:
Jesus Takes Value from Saturn’s Day, Saturday, the Sabbath
The New Testament
Question:
Why do the disciples of John fast on the Sabbath and you and your disciples do not?
Four Answers:
1) Let the family fast when the groom is away.
2) Don’t put new wine in old containers.
3) King David and his military ate the bread (showbread) of the Temple.
(shewbread: twelve loaves placed every Sabbath in the Jewish Temple and eaten by the priests at the end of the week)
4) Jesus went into the synagogue.
There was a man with a withered hand.
Did Jesus correct his problem? Yes.
The priests would use the man with the withered hand to accuse Jesus of healing on the Sabbath.
Jesus looked around in anger
Jesus: Is it lawful to do good or to do evil, to save a life or destroy a life?
See the Gospel according to Mark 3: 1-5.
The Biography of Julius Caesar
Question:
Why did Pompey the Great and his military not take money from the treasury in Saturn’s Temple?
Answer:
There is a connection between the Sabbath, Saturday, and Saturn:
Saturday is Saturn’s day.
Julius Caesar went into the Treasury in Saturn’s Temple.
He was hungry for funds.
Pompey the Great did not take the funds because he had to get away from Julius Caesar.
The Latin word Mutilus means maimed or defective.
The man with the withered hand can be linked to the Latin word Mutilus.
Metellus had a problem with Julius Caesar taking funds from the Treasury in Saturn’s Temple.
Julius Caesar got angry with him and corrected his problem via a threat. Then Metellus left.
Julius Caesar to Metellus: I could do good and not kill you or I can do evil and kill you.
#22 The Term Son of Man Applies to Both Gaius Julius Caesar and Jesus Christ
Gaius Julius Caesar
Gaia = Earth
Filius = Son of
The Book of Genesis states Man was made from the clay of the Earth
Gaius = Son of the Earth = Son of Man
Jesus Christ
Do you believe in the Son of Man?
Who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?
Jesus said to him, “You have seen him and the one speaking with you is he. [I am the Son of Man.]
The Gospel According to John 9: 35-37
22 Similarities between Julius Caesar & Clementia and Jesus Christ
1. Priestly Authority
2. Went out on the water and reassured men they could cross
3. Forgiveness and Mercy towards Enemies
4. Taking Care of the Poor
5. Enduring Persecutions
6. Beheaded Mentor
Steefen
Not only do both of them have a beheaded mentor, both succeeded his mentor in death.
Change 6. Beheaded Mentor to
6. Both Succeeded His Mentor Who Was Killed and Beheaded
Julius Caesar led Rome after Pompey the Great was killed and beheaded.
Jesus Christ became leading spiritual teacher after John the Baptist was beheaded.
Dr. Bart Ehrman (September 23, 2016)
This divinization of Caesar set the precedent for what was to happen with the emperors, beginning with the first of them, Octavian himself, who became “Caesar Augustus” in 29 BCE. Even during his lifetime Augustus was revered in some parts of the empire – some of the Eastern, Greek-speaking provinces (where there had been a long tradition of revering rulers as embodiments of divine power) – as a divine being. And so, there is an inscription that survives from his lifetime found in the city of Halicarnassus (modern Turkey), which calls Augustus:
…The native Zeus
and Savior (σωτὴρ) of the human race
So he is God, the Savior. Sound familiar? He was also the “son of God.” And the “Lord.” These, of course, are all titles widely used by Christians of Jesus. They did not come up with these titles out of the blue. These are things said of another divine-man – the Roman emperor – before they were said of Jesus.
Both Caesar and Jesus Had an Occasion to Instruct Their Men to Travel Very Lightly
Julius Caesar
Reaching Brundisium and having few ships available, Caesar told his troops to leave their luggage, baggage, equipment, and belongs in Italy so that as many men as possible could find space in the ships. They would fight Pompey the Great’s army, win, and eat their food. Instead of five legions crossing in ships, seven legions crossed in the ships.
The soldiers had to keep going after that battle. They did come across a city, Gomphoi, that closed its doors on them. Caesar and the army destroyed that city.
Jesus Christ
One time Jesus sent his 12 disciples out commanding that they take nothing for their journey.
He instructed them to take nothing for the journey but a walking stick–no food, no sack, no money in their belts. They could wear sandals but not a second tunic.
Mark 6: 7-13
If a village does not receive you, they’re going to get it worse than Sodom and Gomorrah.
Matthew 10: 15
= = =
Both Julius Caesar and Jesus Christ Have Two Brothers Who Want a Share in the Glory of Government Power
For Julius Caesar, the two ambitious brothers are the sons of Pompey the Great. They went to war for their share.
For Jesus Christ, the two ambitious brothers are the sons of Zebedee. They asked for their share. (Source: Mark 10: 35-45)
Julius Caesar marched in Spain against two ambitious sons of Pompey the Great.
Caesar’s troops became frightened and began to relent.
Julius Caesar [with hands raised to heaven]: My God, and all the other gods! So many victories are going to be ruined by this one defeat. HELP!
Then he hurried to his soldiers, ran through the lines of fighters and shouted out to them asking if they were not ashamed to deliver him into the hands of such boys after having defeated their father, Pompey the Great.
THAT didn’t help.
Jesus Picked Up from What Caesar Did Next: Whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister. And whosoever of you will be the leader will be servant of all. For even I, Gai-us, Son of the Earth, Son of Man from the Earth, came not to be served but to serve and GIVE MY LIFE as a ransom for all.
Julius Caesar [snatching a shield]: This will be the end of MY LIFE and the end of your military service!
Then he stormed toward the front line. He was 10 feet from the enemy, and the enemy threw 200 lances at him. Now, his soldiers overpowered the opposing army.
Julius Caesar: I have fought for victory: today, I fought for my life! The first was weak. I, the last, went first, serving them notice: this will be the end of your military service if I am killed and we lose this battle.
But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul’s First Epistle to the Corinthians 15: 57
= = =
Rewriting this part this way:
Both Caesar and Jesus Had an Occasion to Instruct Their Men to Travel Very Lightly and Threaten Communities That Did Not Receive Them
Julius Caesar
Reaching Brundisium and having few ships available, Caesar told his troops to leave their luggage, baggage, equipment, and belongings in Italy so that as many men as possible could find space in the ships. They would fight Pompey the Great’s army, win, and eat their food. Instead of five legions crossing in ships, seven legions crossed in the ships.
The soldiers had to keep going after that battle. They did come across a city, Gomphoi, that closed its doors on them. Caesar and the army destroyed that city.
Jesus Christ
One time Jesus sent his 12 disciples out commanding that they take nothing for their journey.
He instructed them to take nothing for the journey but a walking stick–no food, no sack, no money in their belts. They could wear sandals but not a second tunic.
If a village does not receive you, they’re going to get it worse than Sodom and Gomorrah.
Matthew 10: 5-15 [I prefer just using Matthew instead of Mark and Matthew.]
= = =
Matthew 10: 15
In Mark’s version of this story the attack on Gomphoi is left out. In the Matthew version, the attack is referenced as the day of judgment which makes Jesus’ pacifist disciples soldiers in sheep’s clothing. Furthermore, it throws grave suspicion on the term “day of judgment” there and anywhere else in the Gospel of Mathew and all other gospels THAT the day of judgment, here, is not an afterlife event for Jesus.
Troubled and Distressed, Both Ask Their Friends to Keep Watch and Consulting Jupiter or God through Soothsayer or Prayer Was to No Avail
Troubled and Distressed, Both Ask Their Friends to Keep Watch
Gai-us Julius Caesar
Julius Caesar raised suspicion that he wanted to be king and be a tyrant. When he was seated in front of the Temple Venus Genetrix (Venus Mother), overseeing the construction of his Forum, consuls, praetors (magistrates, judges, below consul), and senators came to deliver a resolution to honor him. He did not get up giving the impression, kings do not rise before these men. Second, after telling someone who greeted him as king that “I am not King, I am Caesar,” he accused Marullus and Caesetius of spreading the hated idea that he be king. As a result, he wanted them removed from the Senate. This had the appearance of being tyrannical.
When Caesar perceived this, he repented; and reflecting that this was the first severe and arbitrary act that he had done without military authority and in time of peace, it is said that he ordered his friends to protect him [to keep watch].
From Appian’s Roman History, Volume III, Book II, Chapter 41, 108-109, ps 425-427
Loeb Classical Library, Translated by Horace White
Son of Man, Jesus Christ
Then they came to a place named Gethsemane, and he said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.”
He took with him Peter, James, and John, and began to be troubled and distressed.
Then he said to them, “My soul is sorrowful even to death. Remain here and keep watch.”
Mark 14: 32-34
Consulting Jupiter or God through Soothsayer or Prayer Was to No Avail
Gaius Julius Caesar
After the banquet, a certain bodily faintness came over him in the night, and his wife, Calpurnia, had a dream in which she saw him streaming with blood, for which reason she tried to prevent him from going out in the morning.
When he offered sacrifice, there were many unfavorable signs.
It was the custom of the magistrates, when about to enter the Senate to take the auspices at the entrance. Here again Caesar’s first victim was without a heart, or, as some say, the upper part of the entrails was wanting. The soothsayer said that this was a sign of death. Caesar, laughing, said that the same thing had happened to him when he was beginning his campaign against Pompeius in Spain.
The soothsayer replied that he had been in very great danger then and that now the omen was more deadly.
So, Caesar ordered him to sacrifice again.
None of the victims were more propitious; but, being ashamed to keep the Senate waiting and being urged by his enemies in the guise of friends, he went on disregarding the omens. For it was fated that Caesar should meet his fate.
Appian’s Roman History, Volume III, Book II, Chapter 41, 115-116, ps 439-443
Loeb Classical Library, Translated by Horace White
Son of Man, Jesus Christ
35 He advanced a little and fell to the ground and prayed that if it were possible, the hour might pass by him;
36 he said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible to you. Take this cup away from me, but not what I will but what you will.”
39 Withdrawing again, he prayed, saying the same thing.
41 Behold, Gai-us, the Son of Man, is to be handed over to sinners.
Mark 14: 35-36, 39, 41
Conspirators Who Wanted Julius Caesar Dead Distributed Bribes (Appian, Civil Wars Bk 2, 120) / Conspirators Who Wanted Jesus Christ Dead Bribed Judas
The Early Morning after the Betrayal, There Is a Trial
Julius Caesar
While these things were taking place [the night of Caesar’s murder], Mark Antony, by means of a notice sent round by night, called the Senate to meet before daybreak [to justify putting Caesar to death].
[The Senate would meet before daybreak] at the temple of Tellus [Earth Goddess, also Terra Mater], which was very near his own house, because he did not dare to go to the senate-house situated just below the Capitol, where the gladiators were aiding the conspirators, nor did he wish to disturb the city by bring in the army.
Appian’s Roman History, Chapter 43, 126, p 459-461
Jesus Christ
They led Jesus away to the high priest, and all the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes came together [to justify putting Jesus to death].
Zealot, Chapter 12: No King But Caesar, p. 157 by Reza Aslan :
The problem with this scene are too numerous to count. The trial before the Sanhedrin violates nearly every requirement laid down by Jewish Law for a legal proceeding. The Mishnah is adamant on this subject. The Sanhedrin is not permitted to meet at night. It is not permitted to meet during Passover. It is not permitted to meet on the eve of the Sabbath. It is certainly not permitted to meet so casually in the courtyard of the high priest, as Matthew and Mark claim. And it must begin with a detailed list of why the accused is innocent before any witnesses are allowed to come forth.
CONCLUSION REGARDING ASLAN’S OBJECTION: You are right, the historically accurate early morning trial after the betrayal is not Jesus’ trial but Julius Caesar’s trial.
(Contacted Reza Aslan: At Bart Ehrman’s Forum, a Forum Reply about the Sanhedrin Trial Objection You Raised)
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Asinius Pollio (75 BC to 4 AD) was a contemporary historian of Julius Caesar.
People remembered Julius Caesar by reading his histories annually. His biography of Julius Caesar was used in the Julius Caesar cult and in the gospels of Mark and Matthew.
He was a patron of Virgil and Horace.
Plutarch (46-120) used Pollio for source material.
Appian (95-165) used Pollio for source material.
After Caesar there was the Second Triumvirate: Octavius, Antony, and Lepidus. Each had to actively support
1) the cult of Julius Caesar, the god
2) the goddess mother Venus of his clan, and
3) the spiritual power, in male form,–the genius–attending the family tree of Julius Caesar
What was this support?
building temples
setting up statues
creating and maintaining a liturgy
arranging prayer and thanksgiving services
populating the cult with Caesar’s veterans who were paid with freedom, if they were slaves, and paid with land
proselytizing civilians
Support well the memory of the Julius Caesar military and accumulate the largest number of followers, from these populations, each of the succeeding military leaders had populations from which to recruit for their needs.
A religion needs a text. In the temples of Julius Caesar, god and at the cult statues, Asinius Pollio’s History served as a text. (In addition to the religious remembrances of Julius Caesar’s biography from the pen of Asinius Pollio, Asinius Pollio taught the children of Rome’s elite class, including the children of Herod the Great.)
The veterans had an immediate need for the text, for they were settled into villages that had their own local religion. The people of these villages were pagan to the the religion of the army camp. They knew the god of their invincible commander, Julius Caesar, who was raised to God status. They owed him everything for the battles won and the land to live allotted by him after the fighting was over. Yes, Brutus and even Herod the Great settled soldiers but this would be second generation to the founding God, Julius Caesar, whose supreme God was Jupiter.
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