Do you believe Jesus thought Jesus was the book of Daniel’s ‘son of man’?
If Jesus identified himself with the ‘Son of Man’ it’s hard to see why later Christians would create sayings that differentiated them. On the other hand if Jesus viewed the ‘Son of Man’ as other than himself then it’s easy to see why later Christians would begin to identify Jesus with the ‘Son of Man’. That the latter trajectory of tradition is correct is revealed by the disappearance of the “Son of Man’ figure as Jesus’ status ascended. The ‘Son of man’ figure became superfluous. Jesus himself was divine.
DavidFord:
Do you agree with this?:
Philippians 2 (NIV)
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9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
No.
If you’re already co-equal with God the Father, a separate person but of the same substance, then how could you ever be exalted? Where do you go from “on top”? And the language sure seems to treat God and Jesus as different subjects. The funny thing about all this to me is that I’m much more interested in the idea of the Trinity now than I ever was when I was a believer. What an utterly brilliant solution to a problem of the Church’s own making!
Has there ever been a really good book written about the Trinity? Surely only a non-believer could ever hope to write such a book. Every proposed explanation becomes a heresy. The concept is a divine mystery intended to be contemplated rather than understood. And when you do that, it shocks your consciousness to a higher spiritual level, rather like a Zen Koan was intended to do. The fact it will do this even if you don’t believe in it is quite remarkable.
Many years ago I memorized the Athanasian Creed in an effort to understand the Trinity better. When out on a daily walk, I would say it over and over. I came to see it as a paradox in the same way a table is motionless or in constant motion when considering its electrons, etc. We know about electrons now. We do not know whatever that is for understanding the Trinity.
The Trinity is impossible without Greek philosophy. The concept is also at least in part an accommodation to pagan polytheism. It manages to accomplish this while saving monotheism.
Medieval forgery
And even if it was authentic and it was Jesus’ actual burial shroud, all it proves is that Jesus was dead. Associating the image with the Resuurection is awfully thin gruel. And it contradicts the gospel account as well.
Then Peter and the other disciple set out and went toward the tomb. The two were running together, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He bent down to look in and saw the linen wrappings lying there, but he did not go in. Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen wrappings lying there, and the cloth that had been on Jesus’s head, not lying with the linen wrappings but rolled up in a place by itself.
“The Trinity is impossible without Greek philosophy”
How about a ‘duo-nity,’ to make up a word?– is that “impossible without Greek philosophy”?
“The concept is also at least in part an accommodation to pagan polytheism”
Was ‘let us make man in our image’ “an accommodation to pagan polytheism”?
“even if it was authentic and it was Jesus’ actual burial shroud, all it proves is that Jesus was dead”
How do you account for the origination of the Shroud of Turin’s body image?
“it contradicts the gospel account as well”
How so?– could you elaborate?
What’s your view of the Sudarium of Oviedo?
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“_…. He bent down to look in and saw the linen wrappings lying there, but he did not go in. Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen wrappings lying there, and the cloth that had been on Jesus’s head, not lying with the linen wrappings but rolled up in a place by itself_.”
the Father God Osiris, the Mother Goddess Isis, and the Son Horus
Zeus, Athena, and Apollo
the Theban triad of Amun, Mut and Khonsu
the Memphite triad of Ptah, Sekhmet and Nefertem
the Elephantine triad of Khnum (god of the source of the Nile river), Satet (the personification of the floods of the Nile river), and Anuket (the Goddess of the nile river).
the sungod Ra, whose form in the morning was Khepri, at noon Re-Horakhty and in the evening Atum
The Hellenistic Egypt triad of Isis, Alexandrian Serapis and Harpocrates (a Hellenized version of the already referred Isis-Osiris-Horus triad), though in the early Ptolemaic period Serapis, Isis and Apollo (who was sometimes identified with Horus) were preferred
The Roman Capitoline Triad of Jupiter (father), Juno (wife), and Minerva (daughter)
The Roman pleibian triad of Ceres, Liber Pater and Libera (or its Greek counterpart with Demeter, Dionysos and Kore)
The Julian triads of the early Roman Principate:
Venus Genetrix, Divus Iulius, and Clementia Caesaris
Divus Iulius, Divi filius and Genius Augusti
Eastern variants of the Julian triad, e.g. in Asia Minor: Dea Roma, Divus Iulius and Genius Augusti (or Divi filius)
Perkūnas (god of heaven), Patrimpas (god of earth) and Pikuolis (god of death) in Prussian mythology
Brahma (The Creator) Vishnu (The Preserver) Shiva (The Destroyer)
The Three Pure Ones (Chinese: 三清; pinyin: Sānqīng), also translated as the Three Pure Pellucid Ones, the Three Pristine Ones, the Three Divine Teachers, the Three Clarities, or the Three Purities, are the three highest gods in the Taoist pantheon. They are regarded as pure manifestation of the Tao and the origin of all sentient beings, along with the “lords of the Three Life Principles or ‘Breaths
“No idea where”
Did the replication contain scourge marks?
Was the replication of the front and back, or merely the front, or merely the face?
What was the technique involved in the replicating?
The Shroud body image consists of degraded cellulose. In the replication, of what did the replication body image consist?
“I don’t suppose it was common knowledge, but nor do I think it would be impossible for someone to know this”
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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