These three-member divine groupings are common in Egypt and in cultures eastward. However common, they are more like Triads, divine families. They have little to do with Nicene Trinitarianism which is what we’re really talking about when we refer to the Trinity.
When I wrote that the idea of the Trinity is unthinkable without Greek philosophy, I meant that the concept included a Greek philosophical foundation to conceptualize. The perfect example is the concept of substance or essence which goes back at least to Aristotle (and probably further). It has a technical meaning in Greek philosophy. To put it another way, the folks who conceived the idea of the Trinity used their expertise in Greek Philosophy to help them to formulate it. What would be truly remarkable is if they hadn’t. They were ex-pagans after all.
“the folks who conceived the idea of the Trinity used their expertise in Greek Philosophy to help them to formulate it”
Did the “folks who conceived the idea of the” ‘Two Powers’ use their “expertise in Greek Philosophy to help them to formulate” that?
Did the author of ‘let us make man in our image’ have any “expertise in Greek Philosophy”?
Philo’s concept of the logos is a combination of Platonic ideas of divine intermediation and the Stoic world spirit. Logos is the equivalent with the intelligible world; but, because it can be hypostasized, the logos can also be viewed as a separate agent and called a god. Hence any Jew who shared Philo’s ideas of the nature of divinity could be a prime candidate for the charge of ‘two powers in heaven.
-Alan F. Segal, Two Powers in Heaven: Early Rabbinic Reports about Christianity and Gnosticism, Reprint edition. (Waco, TX: Baylor University Press, 2012)
“if you can show me unimpeachable evidence endorsed by real scientists that are not motivated by religious devotion, I’m willing to take a look”
Some science-type papers are at
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and
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“Which of these articles do you think are the most credible?”
The STURP articles I read seemed credible.
I recall this presented a nice overview:
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19. Schwalbe, L.A. and R.N. Rogers, “Physics and Chemistry of the Shroud of Turin, A Summary of the 1978 Investigation,” Analytica Chimica Acta, Vol. 135, 1982, pp. 3-49.
PDF:
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“Philo’s concept of the logos is a combination of Platonic ideas of divine intermediation and the Stoic world spirit”
Did Enoch’s concept of a God-like “Elect One”/ the “Son of Man” have any Plato ideas incorporated in it?
“4. He shall be the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All, who dwell on earth, shall fall down and worship before him; shall bless and glorify him, and sing praises to the name of the Lord of spirits. ….
11. In his presence shall they fall, and not be raised up again; nor shall there be any one to take them out of his hands, and to lift them up: for they have denied the Lord of spirits, and his Messiah.”
“2. …the Elect One stands before the Lord of spirits; and his glory is for ever and ever; and his power from generation to generation.
3. With him dwells the spirit of intellectual wisdom, the spirit of instruction and of power, and the spirit of those who sleep in righteousness; he shall judge secret things.
4. Nor shall any be able to utter a single word before him; for the Elect One is in the presence of the Lord of spirits”
“8. One portion of them shall look upon another. They shall be astonished, and shall humble their countenance;
9. And trouble shall seize them, when they shall behold this Son of woman sitting upon the throne of his glory.
10. Then shall the kings, the princes, and all who possess the earth, glorify him who has dominion over all things, him who was concealed; for from the beginning the Son of man existed in secret, whom the Most High preserved in the presence of his power, and revealed to the elect.
….
12. All the kings, the princes, the exalted, and those who rule over the earth, shall fall down on their faces before him, and shall worship him.”
Enoch, chapter 48a
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1. In that place I beheld a fountain of righteousness, which never failed, encircled by many springs of wisdom. Of these all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy.
2. In that hour was this Son of man invoked before the Lord of spirits, and his name in the presence of the Ancient of days.
3. Before the sun and the signs were created, before the stars of heaven were formed, his name was invoked in the presence of the Lord of spirits. A support shall he be for the righteous and the holy to lean upon, without falling; and he shall be the light of nations.
4. He shall be the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All, who dwell on earth, shall fall down and worship before him; shall bless and glorify him, and sing praises to the name of the Lord of spirits.
5. Therefore the Elect and the Concealed One existed in his presence, before the world was created, and for ever.
6. In his presence he existed, and has revealed to the saints and to the righteous the wisdom of the Lord of spirits; for he has preserved the lot of the righteous, because they have hated and rejected this world of iniquity, and have detested all its works and ways, in the name of the Lord of spirits.
7. For in his name shall they be preserved; and his will shall be their life. In those days shall the kings of the earth and the mighty men, who have gained the world by their achievements, become humble in countenance.
8. For in the day of their anxiety and trouble their souls shall not be saved; and they shall be in subjection to those whom I have chosen.
9. I will cast them like hay into the fire, and like lead into the water. Thus shall they burn in the presence of the righteous, and sink in the presence of the holy; nor shall a tenth part of them be found.
10. But in the day of their trouble, the world shall obtain tranquillity.
11. In his presence shall they fall, and not be raised up again; nor shall there be any one to take them out of his hands, and to lift them up: for they have denied the Lord of spirits, and his Messiah. The name of the Lord of spirits shall be blessed.
chapter 48b
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1. Wisdom is poured forth like water, and glory fails not before him for ever and ever; for potent is he in all the secrets of righteousness.
2. But iniquity passes away like a shadow, and possesses not a fixed station: for the Elect One stands before the Lord of spirits; and his glory is for ever and ever; and his power from generation to generation.
3. With him dwells the spirit of intellectual wisdom, the spirit of instruction and of power, and the spirit of those who sleep in righteousness; he shall judge secret things.
4. Nor shall any be able to utter a single word before him; for the Elect One is in the presence of the Lord of spirits, according to his own pleasure.
chapter 61
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1. Thus the Lord commanded the kings, the princes, the exalted, and those who dwell on earth, saying, Open your eyes, and lift up your horns, if you are capable of comprehending the Elect One.
2. The Lord of spirits sat upon the throne of his glory.
3. And the spirit of righteousness was poured out over him.
4. The word of his mouth shall destroy all the sinners and all the ungodly, who shall perish at his presence.
5. In that day shall all the kings, the princes, the exalted, and those who possess the earth, stand up, behold, and perceive, that he is sitting on the throne of his glory; that before him the saints shall be judged in righteousness;
6. And that nothing, which shall be spoken before him, shall be spoken in vain.
7. Trouble shall come upon them, as upon a woman in travail, whose labour is severe, when her child comes to the mouth of the womb, and she finds it difficult to bring forth.
8. One portion of them shall look upon another. They shall be astonished, and shall humble their countenance;
9. And trouble shall seize them, when they shall behold this Son of woman sitting upon the throne of his glory.
10. Then shall the kings, the princes, and all who possess the earth, glorify him who has dominion over all things, him who was concealed; for from the beginning the Son of man existed in secret, whom the Most High preserved in the presence of his power, and revealed to the elect.
11. He shall sow the congregation of the saints, and of the elect; and all the elect shall stand before him in that day.
12. All the kings, the princes, the exalted, and those who rule over the earth, shall fall down on their faces before him, and shall worship him.
13. They shall fix their hopes on this Son of man, shall pray to him, and petition him for mercy.
Did Enoch’s concept of a God-like “Elect One”/ the “Son of Man” have any Plato ideas incorporated in it?
I don’t know but I rather doubt it. Of course, Nicene Trinitarianism came much later than the Enoch material. Truthfully I’m not sure what your point is.
You do realize that hypostasis, logos, ousia are all fundamental Greek philosophical concepts? The early church fathers were highly educated, and they used the tools they had at hand when they needed them.
Second Temple Judaism was thoroughly Hellenized. You must not think there was an impregnable wall between Jewish and Greek thought.
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