Man, Bart has trouble getting hold of himself.
Bart
He was born of a woman.
Steefen
but Paul does not say that woman was impregnated by a man.
Paul lived before the gospels written, but in setting up churches, it did not occur to him that these churches needed church literature.
Reference:
The Domitilla of Eusebius was the niece of Flavius Clemens and was banished to the island of Pontia for declaring herself a Christian.
Flavia Domitilla married Titus Flavius Clemens [Clement]. Two sons were born. It is quite probable that these two boys had been brought up as Christians by their pious mother. The parents were found guilty of atheism and the practice of Jewish rites and customs. The mother definitely was a Christian because of the evidence of Coemeterium Comitillas which was used as a Christian burial place.
See: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Bart speaks about scribes copying the letters of Paul not being of the highest quality scribes. Because of the status of Domitilla and Clement, were the scriptures they used of better scribal quality?
Bart
The Gospel of John has more than four sources.
The original Gospel of John did not have Chapter 21.
Steefen
So the end of Mark and the end of John or added material.
Bart
There are two to five letters in 2nd Corinthians.
Derek MythVision
What happens when we die.
Bart
We are material beings. That’s the end. [We do not go to Heaven or Hell.]
Mimesis criticism is a method of interpreting texts in relation to their literary or cultural models. Mimesis, or imitation (imitatio), was a widely used rhetorical tool in antiquity up until the 18th century’s ** you do not have permission to see this link ** structure.
As a critical method, mimesis criticism has been pioneered by ** you do not have permission to see this link ** Greek literature.
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khsuki1
What a dismissal of MacDonald, “Oh he’s smart but he’s wrong” What connection is there in the language? Eurycleia, the name is right there identical in Greek.
At 27:30, Bart admits in this video that Mark has common motifs with the Homeric epics.
drlegendre
New World Encylopedia
King Alexander Jannaeus’ most cruel act was the execution of 800 captured Pharisees by crucifixion in one day. This deed is rendered still more horrible by fact—if it is not a legend—that he caused the wives and children of the condemned to be slain before their eyes, while he, surrounded by feasting courtiers and courtesans, enjoyed the bloody spectacle. The remaining Pharisees now fled the country in fear, 8,000 of them emigrating to Syria and Egypt.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
Please be more specific with history. Jesus was one of the 800 crucified? What is your source for that Jesus story?
Richard Barrow
I like Bart, a lot. But did he really essentially say, we have crucifixion on Earth, so someone can’t make up a story about they’re Deity being Crucified somewhere else. That makes no sense. It’s a story, I can have anything, happening to anyone, anywhere!
Bart D. Ehrman
How did they crucify Jesus if he wasn’t real?
Gabriel Plattes
‘How did they crucify him if he wasn’t real?’ – dumb as a bag of hammers… How did the toad buy an automobile, if he wasn’t real?; How did they pull Pooh out of that tree, if he wasn’t real?; If Hector wasn’t real, how come his old man fetched his body?
Hjorvarth Valamir
Ken Humphries gives a better understanding about Paul’s character, he’s a highbrow Greek writing theology about abstract concept first and foremost, which makes him seem fictitious, plus all the nonsensical magical miracles and events involving him, smells very fake.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy and Instructor
Paul is fake? Pauline Christianity for the Gentiles is fake?
Josephus says the same thing.
QUESTION: The scholar Kenneth Humphreys, author of Jesus Never Existed says this in his book?
Quora
Ken Humphries states that “Jesus never existed.” Does he have a decent reputation among scholars?
Geoff Read
I’ve never heard of him I don’t know what his claims are.
If you’re interested, here’s a list of leading scholars who doubt the historicity of Jesus for you:
Hector Avalos, PhD (Professor of Religious Studies)
Thomas Brodie, PhD (Retired theology professor)
Richard Carrier, PhD (Historian)
Raphael Lataster, PhD (Biblical scholar)
Kurt Noll, PhD (Chair of Religion Dept.)
Robert Price, PhD x2 (Biblical scholar)
Thomas Thompson, PhD (Retired Biblical scholar)
David Fitzgerald has written four excellent books on this which summarise the work of many of those listed above and many others (including religious scholars):
Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed At All ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Plus three books in the series “Jesus: Mything in Action”.
Here’s a paper by Tom Dykstra of the Orthodox Center for the Advancement of Biblical Studies, a Christian discussing the problems facing Jesus studies.
See Journal of the Orthodox Center for the Advancement of Biblical Studies
Ehrman and Brodie on Whether Jesus Existed: a Cautionary Tale about the State of Biblical Scholarship
** you do not have permission to see this link **
The gospels are about events 40 years earlier because none of the miracles could be investigated 40 years later; because none of the crowds at Jesus’s sermon could be investigated 40 years later; none of these things could be investigated after the Temple and Jerusalem, and Galilee were devastated.
MythVision
Paul is not a real human being. He’s made up.
Kenneth Humphreys
Paul is a human element people can relate to.
They are not talking about a real person, they are talking about a super apostle
We can’t follow Jesus’ apostles around the world where they went outside of the Roman Empire; but if we invent a super apostle, we have a human element people can relate to.
Steefen
They decided Paul needed a prequel, so they wrote the gospels?
MythVision,
1 Thessalonians, 4th chapter does not say the wrath of God is coming on the Jews. I just went to biblehub and read that chapter and I did not see that.
(So, not yet can you say that letter was written post-AD70.)
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
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There is too much richness in Paul’s Christology.
Then Paul writes to the Galatians, a rich Christology, but no intellectuals in Galatia write a reference if not a biography of Paul?
What about Rome and Corinth, the richness of Paul, but no reference, mention, biography?
Kenneth Humphreys
It is not plausible that a prisoner could tell a Roman governor, move my local case to the supreme court [Caesar] and the Roman governor of Judea does that.
This prisoner takes control of a ship about to become shipwrecked. He tells them, do not throw over the lifeboats.
Then he gets bitten by a snake and survives (because his God is the real God).
Why waste a good yarn? If Jesus had to go before Herod and the Roman governor, Paul has to go before a Herod and a Roman governor.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
If Josephus gets shipwrecked, why waste a good yarn: Paul gets shipwrecked.
pick up at 42:33
Eris
My significant other always says, “If a person has to tell you to trust them or that they are not lying, don’t trust them, they are lying.” Little does he know…his favorite religion is based off a dude that does that a lot 🙂
Peter Hendriks
They often talk about Hellenistic elements in the gospels, but isn’t there a lot of Ulysses in Paul, with his odyssey and his shipwreck on Malta. He is like a Christian Ulysses.
Lunar Module
The word is out! “Conmen”. Its rarely used, but its really the basis of it all. Probably a few locos in the melee too, but the crafty conmen at the helm. Selling hope in a very harsh world.
Steve Campbell, Author of Historical Accuracy
This is a GREAT thread because it start with Bart Ehrman.
Second, some believe that Paul and the dating of the Authentic Pauline Letters are such a great defense against people who say Jesus did not exist.
Those people need to hear what Ken Humphreys has to say.
If you are yawning, Stephen, maybe you should go stand in the corner, or not even bother to post in the thread with your insults.
Robert said
Steefen said
MythVision,
1 Thessalonians, 4th chapter does not say the wrath of God is coming on the Jews. I just went to biblehub and read that chapter and I did not see that.
(So, not yet can you say that letter was written post-AD70.)
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
I think you’re confused. The issue is about 1 Thessalonians Chapter Two, not Chapter Four. So much for historical accuracy.
You are in error.
So much for your ability to comprehend a conversation, Robert.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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