1 Thess Ch 2, v14
For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Judea that are in Christ Jesus. You suffered from your own countrymen the very things they suffered from the Jews,
v15
who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and drove us out as well. They are displeasing to God and hostile to all men,
v16
hindering us from telling the Gentiles how they may be saved. As a result, they continue to heap up their sins to full capacity; the utmost wrath has come upon them.
Steve Campbell, Author of Historical Accuracy
The verse does not read as a prophecy of the destruction of the Temple and of the devastation of Galilee and Jerusalem.
It would be interesting if the wording was: the utmost wrath will come upon them.
Steefen said
Kenneth HumphreysIt is not plausible that a prisoner could tell a Roman governor, move my local case to the supreme court [Caesar] and the Roman governor of Judea does that.
This prisoner takes control of a ship about to become shipwrecked. He tells them, do not throw over the lifeboats.
Then he gets bitten by a snake and survives (because his God is the real God).
Why waste a good yarn? If Jesus had to go before Herod and the Roman governor, Paul has to go before a Herod and a Roman governor.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
If Josephus gets shipwrecked, why waste a good yarn: Paul gets shipwrecked.
pick up at 42:33
MythVision and Ken Humphreys
Acts is a way of harmonizing the irreconcilable differences between Paul and the Jerusalem Church.
Ken Humphreys
People don’t want to fact check the Bible.
Steefen
Except for people who are living the self-examined life.
p/u at 57:38
If you are yawning, Stephen, maybe you should go stand in the corner, or not even bother to post in the thread with your insults.
If I yawn it’s because I have been rendered soporific by the constant rehash of these mind-numbingly tedious arguments. Do you really think no one has ever heard these arguments before?
Robert
Steefen, you yourself said you read the whole of Chapter Four and did not see the passage about wrath of God coming on the Jews. That’s because the passage you’re looking for is in Chapter Two:
1 Thess 2,14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you suffered the same things from your own compatriots as they did from the Jews, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out; they displease God and oppose everyone 16 by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. Thus they have constantly been filling up the measure of their sins; but God’s wrath has overtaken them at last.
Steefen
I already quoted those verses above and commented on those verses. Keep up, Robert.
Picking up at 57:39
(hm, this video has 55,759 views)
There is nothing else from 57:39 to the end of the video.
= = =
Arthur Ide
Paul never existed. There is not one document written between 30 – 93 CE that claims the existence, ministry, words, etc. of a Saul of Tarsus/Paul of Tarsus. Paul is an invention.
George Mavrocordatos
St. Paul should have met Jesus as a person not just a mirage.
After all they are both claimed to have lived in the same place at the same time with St. Paul claiming to have been a Pharisee in Jerusalem.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
Jesus’ opponents were scribes and Pharisees. I was saying just the other day I was suspicious that Paul who cares about the death and resurrection of Jesus and persecuting his followers only comes on the scene when?–when Jesus is dead and resurrected. Although he was a Pharisee, when other Pharisees were against the living Jesus, Jesus was not on Paul’s radar. The gospel writers did not know who he was. We only get from Luke that Paul saw St. Stephen killed. We don’t get the disciples discussing Sauline persecution.
George Mavrocordatos
St Paul’s theology is a departure from the gospels in that the gospels don’t throw Mosaic law away.
Robert said
Steefen said
Robert said
Then why did you look at Chapter Two, as I suggested?
Your suggestion did not meet my standards.
But you did look at Chapter Two, as I had suggested, and did find what you were looking for. So apparently you lowered your standards and learned something. Maybe this won’t be the last time.
I learned useless information.
Robert said
Well, if you had read and understood my post you would have indeed learned that the passage you were looking for is in Chapter Two, not Chapter Four, where you had been looking for it. If that was useless information, then why did you in fact go and find the passage you were looking for in Chapter Two? Usually when provided with such helpful information the polite response should be “thank you,” not an insult and accusation of error. Please try to keep your posts on this board polite. Thank you.
Robert
I think you’re confused.
Steefen
You started with the insults. Keep your posts on this board polite.
Robert said
Noting that you were confused is not an insult. You were unsuccessfully looking for a text in Chapter Four that actually occurs in Chapter Two. That is confusion. I tried to help you out of your obvious confusion by telling you where the text could be found. If you actually feel insulted by the simple fact that you were simply confused, that’s an issue you should deal with elsewhere perhaps. It’s not an insult to help someone deal with their simple confusion.
“You are confused” is an insult, especially when a person is not confused.
= = =
MythVision,
1 Thessalonians, 4th chapter does not say the wrath of God is coming on the Jews. I just went to biblehub and read that chapter and I did not see that.
(So, not yet can you say that letter was written post-AD70.)
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
= = =
Mythvision referenced a chapter of Thessalonians. I wrote to MythVision.
I did not assert anything to be confused about. I gave MythVision a question for MythVision to possibly correct their mistake.
There is no confusion on my part. I am not confused about what MythVision said.
If you want to “help” simply say, I think MythVision is referring to __________________.
By the way, I also asked MythVision,
Are you referring to Chapter 2, verses 14-16?
Meanwhile, you were insisting I was confused.
You insisted you were right. It takes this much for you to ask me to tell MythVision they were possibly mistaken? Maybe MythVision was mistaken. You want to say they were confused. I would say possibly, they quoted the wrong chapter.
Robert said
So it sounds like MythVision confused you. Doesn’t change the fact that you were confused. That’s just a fact, regardless of who is responsible for confusing you. You read through all of Chapter Four looking for a text that you should already be very aware of. You have engaged for years in elaborate theories that you think disprove that Jesus was crucified circa 30 CE and apparently were not even aware of this crucial text and its location. And when I helpfully pointed out the correct location of this text to you, you insisted that I was in error. This is part of the reason why people can’t really take you seriously, Steefen.
Asking MythVision to check their assertion is not confusion on my part. You are unreasonable.
The second chapter of Thessalonians does not meet my standards as evidence that Paul is referring to the destruction of the Temple or Jerusalem being destroyed by the Jewish Civil War.
It does for you?
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