In my previous posts I’ve dealt with some of the critical problems with the New Testament that many students have to grapple with (often for the first time) when they take seminary courses on biblical studies during their ministerial training. One of the big questions I address in my book Jesus Interrupted (HarperOne, 2009) is why pastors who learn such things in seminary don’t say anything about them in their churches after graduation, not even in adult education classes. Isn’t one of the objectives of education to get educated? In this post I continue with an excerpt from the book dealing with comparable problems in the Old Testament.
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These kinds of problems turn out to be even more common in the Old Testament, starting at its very beginning. Some people go to great lengths to smooth over all these differences, but when you look at them closely, they are very difficult indeed to reconcile. And why should they be reconciled? Maybe they are simply differences. The creation account in Genesis 1 is very different from the account in Genesis 2. Not only is the wording and writing style different, as is very obvious when you read the text in Hebrew, and not only do the two chapters use different names for God, but the very content of the chapters differs in numerous respects. Just make a list of everything that happens in chapter 1 in the order it occurs, and a separate list for chapter 2, and compare your lists. Are animals created before humans, as in chapter 1, or after, as in chapter 2? Are plants created before humans or afterward? Is “man” the first living creature to be created or the last? Is woman created at the same time as man or separately? Even within each story there are problems: if “light” was created on the first day of creation in Genesis 1, how is it that the sun, moon, and stars were not created until the fourth day? Where was the light coming from, if not the sun, moon, and stars? And how could there be an “evening and morning” on each of the first three days if there was no sun?
That’s just the beginning. When Noah takes the animals on the ark, does he take seven pairs of all the “clean” animals, as Genesis 7:2 states, or just two pairs, as Genesis 7:9–10 indicates?
In the book of Exodus, God tells Moses, “I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name ‘The LORD’ [= Yahweh] I did not make myself known to them” (Exodus 6:3). How does this square with what is found earlier, in Genesis, where God does make himself known to Abraham as The LORD: “Then he [God] said to him [Abraham], ‘I am The LORD [= Yahweh] who brought you from Ur of the Chaldeans’” (Genesis 15:7)?
Or consider one of my all-time favorite passages, the description of the ten plagues that Moses brought down on the heads of the Egyptians in order to compel Pharaoh to “let my people go.” The fifth plague was a pestilence that killed “all of the livestock of the Egyptians” (Exodus 9:5). How is it, then, that a few days later the seventh plague, of hail, was to destroy all of the Egyptian livestock in the fields (Exodus 9:21–22)? What livestock?
A close reading of the Bible reveals other problems besides the many discrepancies and contradictions. There are places where the text seems to embrace a view that seems unworthy of God or of his people. Are we really to think of God as someone who orders the wholesale massacre of an entire city? In Joshua 6, God orders the soldiers of Israel to attack the city of Jericho and to slaughter every man, woman, and child in the city. I suppose it makes sense that God would not want bad influences on his people—but does he really think that murdering all the toddlers and infants is necessary to that end? What do they have to do with wickedness?
Or what is one to make of Psalm 137, one of the most beautiful Psalms, which starts with the memorable lines “By the rivers of Babylon—there we sat down and there we wept, when we remembered Zion.” Here is a powerful reflection by a faithful Israelite who longs to return to Jerusalem, which had been destroyed by the Babylonians. But his praise of God, and of his holy city, takes a vicious turn at the end, when he plots his revenge on God’s enemies: “Happy shall they be who take your [Babylonian] little ones, and dash them against the rock.” Knocking the brains out of the Babylonian babies in retaliation for what their father-soldiers did? Is this in the Bible?
The God of vengeance is found not only in the Old Testament, as some Christians have tried to claim. Even the New Testament God is a God of judgment and wrath, as any reader of the book of Revelation knows. The Lake of Fire is stoked up and ready for everyone who is opposed to God. This will involve eternal burning—an everlasting punishment, even for those who have sinned against God, intermittently, say, for twenty years. Twenty trillion years of torment in exchange for twenty years of wrong living; and that’s only the beginning. Is this really worthy of God?
I should stress that scholars and students who question such passages are not questioning God himself. They are questioning what the Bible has to say about God. Some such scholars continue to think that the Bible is in some sense inspired—other scholars, of course, do not. But even if the authors of the Bible were in some sense inspired, they were not completely infallible; in fact, they made mistakes. These mistakes involved discrepancies and contradictions, but they also involved mistaken notions about God, who he really was and what he really wanted. Does he really want his followers to splash the brains of their enemies’ infants against the rocks? Does he really plan to torment unbelievers for trillions of years?
These are the questions many seminarians are forced to grapple with as they move away from the devotional commitment to the Bible that they bring with them to seminary and begin to study the Bible in light of scholarship. They are questions raised, in large extent, as a result of being trained in the historical-critical approach to the Bible, the approach that is taught in most mainline Protestant seminaries and that is the more or less “orthodox” view among biblical scholars in America and Europe.
This view insists that each author of the Bible lived in his own time and place—and not in ours. Each author had a set of cultural and religious assumptions that we ourselves may not share. The historical-critical method tries to understand what each of these authors may have meant in his original context. According to this view, each author must be allowed to have his own say. Within the New Testament, the author of Matthew isn’t saying the same thing as Luke. Mark is different from John. Paul may not see eye to eye with James. The author of Revelation seems to be different from all the others. And once you throw the Old Testament into the mix, things get completely jumbled. The authors of Job and Ecclesiastes explicitly state that there is no afterlife. The book of Amos insists that the people of God suffer because God is punishing them for their sins; the book of Job insists that the innocent can suffer; and the book of Daniel indicates that the innocent in fact will suffer. All of these books are different, all of them have a message, and all of the messages deserve to be heard.
Greetings from Romania!
Dear Mr. Ehrman, with all due respect I’m asking if you could unravel a confusion I have regarding St. Stephen’s speech to the Sanhedrin in ch. 7 of The Acts of the Apostles.
I’ve gotten myself into a tremendous discussion on the above mentioned chapter, which sparked a number of controversies:
1. Was there a mistake on the author’s part by confusing Sechem with Hebron? Or is there another explanation?
2. The text mentions that “their bodies” have been moved/displaced/brought back (?!?) to Sechem. If the author has not made a terrible mistake, isn’t this in contradiction with the Judaic tradition that patriarchs are placed in the “Cave of the Patriarchs” in Hebron?
3. One of my more knowledgeable colleague’s explanation was that the author of the Acts had no knowledge of Judaism and even of the Old Testament. Could it be that simple? He also denies the veracity of the trial, arguing that at that moment stoning was not a punishment anymore. However, haven’t Jewish courts been dissolved only after the first Revolt? Then the localization would be correct.
Thank you in advance for your time and I am eager to find out your opinion on the matter.
Stephen’s account in 7:16 conflicts with what we find in Genesis 23:1-20; 25:9; 33:18-19; 50:13-14; Joshua 24:32. Some scholars think he speaks of “Shechem” here in order to anticipate the importance of hte Samaritans as being among God’s people, one of the themes he seets out in the next chapter of Acts (8:4-25)
It can’t be true that the author has “no knowledge” of the Old Testament; this entire chapter 7 is a summary of its narrative and he quotes the OT on a number of occasions — so he had *some* knowledge, and at least as much as the vast majority of Christians today, who would never ever be able to provide this kind of summary. But as to complete accuracy, no.
This is all very interesting. You said above:
“One of the big questions I address in my book Jesus Interrupted (HarperOne, 2009) is why pastors who learn such things in seminary don’t say anything about them in their churches after graduation, not even in adult education classes.”
Are your thoughts on why they don’t say anything to their churches after graduation coming in a future post?
Thanks
The two obvious answers are that they don’t want to make waves and that they don’t think these historical details about the Bible are what really matter for Christian faith. I think that second answer is not fully appreciated by lots of non-Christians, but the reality is that when a pastor is dealing wiht people who live difficult lives and are just trying to make sense of it, they don’t see that it matters that much whether Jairus approached Jesus *before* his daughter died or after….
As to the book called the bible, it is blasphemy to call it the Word of God. It is a book of lies and contradictions and a history of bad times and bad men. Thomas Paine
If there is only one God than that God must be morally consistent. In the different stories of the Bible He (?) is not so you cannot assume that the Bible is the word of that God neither be inspired by that God, nor that anytime God is mentioned as actor it is God.
The only conclusion can be that the authors of the different stories where in search of that God. And in my view even Jezus and Mohammed were searching.
“If there is only one God than that God must be morally consistent”
WE are human & can’t possibly understand the divine. Just like the part of the painting on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel depicting Where Adam reaches but cannot touch the hand of the equally out touched arm of God https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sistine_Chapel_ceiling#:~:text=Central%20to%20the%20ceiling%20decoration,recently%20from%201980%20to%201994.
You answered this! Thanks!!
Dear Dr. Ehrman,
Question 1
You say you read Gilgamesh.
I’m at amazon dot com.
Do you like the Gerald J. Davis translation or the Benjamin R. Foster translation which is a Norton Critical Edition?
The Norton Critical Editions I have used in the past:
1) The House of Mirth by Edit Wharton
2) The Portrait of a Lady by Henry James
3) The Brothers Karamazov
So, I’m leaning towards the Foster Gilgamesh.
Would you like to share with us the Gilgamesh translation that would be acceptable today or maybe the version you read?
Thank you,
Steve Campbell author of
Historical Accuracy
(currently developing the 2nd edition)
= = =
Question 2
With Homo sapiens sapiens being 150,000 years old. Our notion of a Father-Son god in early Christianity is obligated and our sacred text must embrace all civilizations, not just the most recent 10,000 year period. We could have had 15 civilizations of 10,000 years. That is the challenge to Christianity and why I am looking at Sumer and more to replace Noah and Adapa to replace Adam.
I don’t have a huge preference, especially since I can’t read the original language in order to gauge accuracy.
In https://www.bartehrman.com/gospel-of-mark/, Marko Marina says, “In Mk 4:11-12, he [Jesus] says to the disciples: “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven.”
This implies that Jesus does *not* want people to believe in him. I followed various links and I think it must be so that Isaiah 6:10 can be fulfilled.
This makes no sense to me. Is it one more of the “sayings of Jesus” that developed after his death?
Probably. My sense is that it is all part of Mark’s agenda to show that no one understood Jesus during his lifetime and that he even tried to keep much of it a secret (the so-called “Messianic Secret of mark). Isaiah was certainly useful to that end. Both Isaiah and Mark (writing after the events described) have to account for the fact that the messages were not well received or comprehended.
Did the Bible, the Hebrew Scriptures or Old Testament, originate as a response to the Assyrian conquest of Israel in the 8th century BCE and the subsequent Babylonian exile? Were the writers aiming to preserve national identity?
I wouldn’t say that the military defeats were the sole reason for the entire Bible, no, though certainly they play a highly significant role. For one thing, parts of the Hebrew Bible were written prior to the Assyrian invasion.
This is really good and thought provoking. Some of the things you touched upon (e.g., God commanding genocide and tormenting unbelievers for eternity) are things that began my own deconstruction process.
The other items you touched upon highlight other issues with the Bible I never thought of.
Thank you for sharing your insight on these topics.
Wow, I didn’t even know about that livestock glitch in the Exodus.
I think Hosea 2:16 says the Lord (Anglicization) was originally called Ba’al (Canaanitization). I’d bet money that YHWH is a Hyksosization, bc it starts appearing circa 8th C BCE as Semetic Egypt is exodusing again with the Assyrian takeover.
I think the Hebrew Bible resembles in micro-cosm what would happen if we’d gather all the books globally today on “What Does God Say To Do?”
But once you know God = term of address for God-Kings, then the Hebrew Bible’s books cohere a bit more.
Book of Daniel is maybe the last dated book. It’s a polemic about Nabonidus daring to revive divine kingship with the dinger. How do you know? You can’t say the name of a god-king. You can say Nebuchadnezzer. You can say Belshazzar. But you can’t say Nabonidus within the lore of the Bible. Because he’s the God in deutero-Isaiah promising to de-Edomite Sela.
The authors of the Bible are writing under the anti-God-King Achaeamenid Dynasty, so trito-Isaiah adds Cyrus the Great as the only personally named Messiah in the entire Hebrew Bible. It’s meaningful, even exhilarative, bc you *can* say his name.
IMO, we should not set ourselves up as the judge. The Bible is inspired by God and guides how to live our lives while we are here on Earth. I, too, have been in the desert, doubting my beliefs, but now I believe my beliefs and doubt my doubts. Because of your skepticism, you are in my prayers, Bart.
SirBear,
What evidence is there that the Bible is “inspired by God”? Even if one believes that there is such an entity as “God” (I don’t), why should we think that the Bible is “inspired”?
The Quran and the Book of Mormon both have much stronger claims to be directly inspired — the Quran’s claim is that it was dictated by Allah, through an angel, to one person and one person alone, at a particular time and place. The Book of Mormon’s claim is that it was inscribed on golden tablets that were directly revealed to Joseph Smith by an angel. Since I don’t think there is a god, I don’t accept either of those claims as valid; but if you grant the existence of the divinity and the angels involved, then the divine inspiration of those two books is logical and easy to grasp. (Though obviously, you’d still have to pick one; they can’t both be divinely inspired since they contradict one another in their most fundamental claims about the nature of God and humanity’s relationship to God.)
The Bible, otoh, is a collection of various different writings of various types (“Biblia” in Greek is plural, meaning “books”), written over many centuries. *Even if* I believed that God existed, I’d have a hard time seeing evidence of divine inspiration in the Bible.
These contradictions highlight the human influence on scripture, a view supported by many scholars, such as Dr. Kipp Davis, Dr Mathew Mongers, Dead Sea Scrolls experts. Davis, Mongers and others seems to me to advocate for a non-literal interpretation of the Hebrew Bible, where even the origin is outside . This perspective suggests that texts were treated as dynamic documents, allowing reinterpretation and expansion by even the most religious Jews. Such flexibility shows that sacred writings were not considered static but could be adjusted to meet changing theological and cultural needs.
For example, the Book of Jubilees expands on Genesis by addressing contradictions, such as God’s statement that Adam would die on the day he ate the forbidden fruit. Jubilees explains that since a day for God equals 1,000 years, Adam’s death at 930 still fits within “a day” from God’s perspective. I love this book and it is really entertaining to read.
This approach reflects how sacred texts were understood as adaptable, not fixed. Jubilees is still canonical in the Ethiopian Bible, offering an interpretive tool for those struggling with literal readings of the Bible. This shows how both ancient Jewish audiences and modern scholars like Davis (and others) perceive the Hebrew scriptures as dynamic, evolving texts.
Yeah,,the OT has a lot of contradictions
The Bible makes a compelling argument: monotheistic God is a less-than-ideal character not worthy of admiration.
Demands worship, from every (less intelligent, less capable) human? Or else…
Imagine a recent doctoral graduate wanting to be admired by (less intelligent, less capable) 3rd graders. Now imagine that PhD desiring admiration from 3rd graders to the point of resentment, smiting/spiting any that don’t.
This god created everything in existence with neither praise/worship nor army.
Threats (Ad Baculum) are an illegitimate technique.
One can coerce behavior. One can’t coerce ideas/thoughts/opinions.
Imagine approaching a three year-old with a weapon and saying: “tell me the correct answer to ‘5 times 7’, or I’ll harm you!” That 3yo, that likely hasn’t mastered addition and subtraction (much less multiplication and division), won’t suddenly know no matter how real/urgent a threat. One can make that 3yo say (behavior) anything with threats; put a gun to my head and I’ll agree “2+2=7”. But humans will do almost anything under duress.
Do the same thing with an option. If I say “give me your wallet/phone”, I can kill you and take it. I pull a weapon on you and demand “tell me my clothes look nice! Hold this opinion!” “No.” Now what? Take it?
Word count.
either you or shlomo Sand mentioned that Moses escapes Egypt only to arrive back in Egypt again…
Your observation about the Egyptian livestock being destroyed in the fifth plague and then again by the hail of the seventh plague inspired me to re-read the Exodus “plague” chapters. In doing so, I noticed that somehow—after having been killed twice already—the “first born” of the livestock are killed yet a third time, in the final plague (11:5): “. . .and every firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sits on his throne, even to the firstborn of the slave girl who is behind the handmill, and all the firstborn of the cattle.” Now THAT’S some hearty livestock. They say cats have nine lives; unfortunately, cows only get three…
Yup! Those poor livestock!!
I thought the punishment of the lake of fire in revelation was eternal death (never to be raised again), and not eternal torment/torture in fire?
Ah, right. I didn’t state that very well. Probably because it wsa before I fully realized what the lake of fire was some years ago.
Prof. Ehrman, do you think Jesus was influenced by the prophecy in Daniel 9:22-27 (and maybe those in the next chapters) when predicting that “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power”? Could it be that he was just interpreting the seventy weeks prophecy? Thank you!
I don’t think there’s a way to know. He was certainly influenced by passages in Daniel 7 and 12. But my sense is that the idea of the end coming soon was widespread among apocalypitic Jews (just as it is today about many conservative Christians who have never read Daniel!): it’s just part of the belief system
Interesting! Thank you! I am thinking specifically of the 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel 9 because verse 24, 26 and 27 speak about bringing in “everlasting righteousness” and “the end”, terms that might indicate the end of the story. I am sure you know about the christian interpretations of this prophecy which, in my opinion, make Jesus fit in this prophecy pretty well (better than the jewish interpretation of this passage I would say). But still, the end of the world didn’t come, just the destruction of the Temple.
I don’t have the reference right in front me at this second, but Lydia McGrew admitted that if Matthew was read in isolation from the other gospels, his statement that Mary was among the plural “women” who had been educated by the angel as to why Jesus’ body was missing…thus contradicting John, who infamously has Mary grieving because she doesn’t know what happened to the body. I think Dr. Ehrman’s push for people to read the gospels in isolation from each other more realistically reflects the intent of the original authors. The notion that each would have wanted the readers to read only in conjunction with three other gospels, cannot even be sustained by anything in the bible or church history, so when we reject that contention, we are not rejecting anything that has even remote claim to being something “god” wants. And yet, to read one version in isolation from the others, is to draw inferences that, though reasonable enough, are not consistent with the other three versions.
This was awesome… Being a Christian for 50 years, going to Christian university, wanting to be a pastor but ended up being a teacher/coach that thought it was my mission field….I’m a whole lot more cynical now and that I know the Bible is not inerrant. I am cynical because I believe pastors don’t talk about this because being a preacher is their livelihood. They have hungry mouths to feed at home. It is a really tough situation for them, but is dishonest to continually tell people the Bible is inerrant and that there are no discrepancies. Most of the protestant evangelical churches have it in their creed that the Bible is without error and that you cannot be a member of the church if you don’t believe this. It didn’t have to be that way.