(13 votes, average: 4.92 out of 5)
Loading...Here is another tidbit from the original version of my Bible Introduction. It may be old news for a lot of you, but it’s fun to write this kind of thing up for college students, who have never heard of such a thing!
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One of the most mysterious and even bizarre stories in Genesis happens right at the beginning of the flood narrative, where we are told that the “sons of God” looked down among the human “daughters,” saw that they were beautiful, and came down and had sex with them leading, to the Nephilim. The word Nephilim means “fallen ones.” According to Numbers 13:33, the Nephilim were giants. So what is going on here in Genesis? Apparently there were angelic beings (the “sons of God”) who lusted after human women, cohabited with them, and their offspring were giants. It is at that point that God decides to destroy the world. The situation was too weird even for him.
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Genesis 6 has always fascinated me too. Of course, Erich von Daniken and his colleagues have absolutely no problem in interpreting this weird story. The sons of God are advanced aliens who interbreed with (or genetically engineer) ancient hominids and create the Nephilim, ie. homo sapiens. Taken at face value, this story does sound like an advanced race of some sort interacting with a primitive people and so I can understand why the ancient alien ‘brigade’ have a field day with this passage.
Another theory: the sons of God (and the gods themselves) were not aliens from outer space but “simply” another (advanced!) hominid species (Cro-Magnon?) that is now extinct. When 2 species interbreed, sometimes a recessive gene is expressed in the offspring that makes them grow way beyond the size of either parent. Ligers (male lion, female tiger) are typically quite large, whereas Tigons (I kid you not!) are relatively small.
In this view, Nephilim are the offspring of Sapiens mothers and Elohim fathers. But El Elyon (God Most High) was not amused when his minions started polluting the bloodline and he tried to contain the evolutionary experiment. Then, when the Elohim (or Olympians, or Annunaki) eventually died out (bird flu?), Sapiens started worshipping them. Like a reverse cargo cult.
I explore this interesting story in my blog (post #6), along with other posts about Biblical sex. https://thebibleundressed.blog/heavenly-sex-and-amorous-angels/
“brothers and sisters to have sex” That’s what the Ptolemies did. again and again.
There’s a lot of stuff about Gensis I don’t understand or just seems plain weird. Like where did all those people come from when Cain was expelled for killing Abel? Or when the world was destroyed by the flood, wasn’t Noah’s family the only surviving humans? Wasn’t their situation much like Adam and Eve’s. Didn’t reproduction require brothers and sisters to have sex? I guess I need to take Bart’s course, In the Beginning.
1. Do you think this story was included because the Hebrew writers were aware of other similar ancient mythologies so they wanted a similar story in their writings?
2. We know they copied and adapted the flood story so did they include this story in order to have a reason for the flood?
My sense is that stories circulate and get changed to line up better with a story-tellers personal and cultural context; so I dn’t think it was so much “We need a story like that” as that it was the kind of story people told; in this case it helped explain why God chose to destory the world.
Here’s a theory I’ve come across and would love to hear your thoughts on: In the New Testament, Jesus is described as casting out “unclean spirits.” What if their uncleanness is due to their origin as spirits of the Nephilim—beings whose very existence was corrupt? That would connect Jesus to a long line of figures—Noah, Joshua, David—who are associated with purging the land of these corrupted entities.
What’s especially intriguing is the story of the demoniac possessed by a “Legion” of spirits—a name evocative of a Roman military unit. These spirits are driven into a herd of unclean pigs, which then drown in the sea. I’ve often wondered two things:
1. Could this scene be presenting Jesus as a kind of apocalyptic warrior in the tradition of Noah, Joshua, and David—defeating the Nephilim and purging the land?
2. Is there any symbolic connection between this story and the Jewish victory over Rome’s Legio XII at the Battle of Beth Horon, where mixed cities near Galilee were purged of foreign influence and the Roman legion was driven back toward the coastal plain—similar to the demons being cast into pigs and drowned?
Are the stories of the Nephilim in Genesis and Numbers from the same authors, in scholarly opinion?
Hello Dr.Bart Erhman
You said that Jesus became the son of god at his baptism in Marks gospel but for early jewish and roman societies it was usually understood that you become divine and a god when you go to heaven.
Jesus did that after his death but not at his baptism.
Dear Bart,
I continue to enjoy your Misquoting Jesus podcast, and one aspect that repeatedly comes across is your respect and admiration for the historical Jesus. It struck me that even though you are no longer a Christian, in some sense, you come across as a follower of (the historical) Jesus.
You admire the man, you follow his commandments to give to the poor and needy, and you treat others with a high standard of respect. From an observer’s perspective, if they didn’t know you were an agnostic/atheist, you would appear to be a Christ follower.
In your view, would this be a fair characterisation – that whilst you’re no longer a Christian, you remain a follower of the historical Jesus?
Just kinda wondering, exactly why did “god” give these angels fully functional (and apparently humanly interactive) genitalia? And what are these guys doing with that equipment when they’re not on earth consorting with the ladies? And finally, how, oh-my-soul HOW did I ever fall for this nonsense?
Dr. Ehrman, would you kindly create a post discussing Barnabas, also known as Joseph? I would also appreciate your insights on the Book of Acts regarding Paul and Barnabas. Additionally, we have made the decision to relocate to Southeast Asia. I find the practices of Buddhism to be quite intriguing. With Olympus tattooed on my back, my beliefs are clear, but I am drawn to the appealing idea of embracing a meditative lifestyle.
Dr. Ehrman
Jesus is the Son of Man.
Enoch is also the Son of Man.
QUESTION 1: When you say Jesus speaks of the Son of Man in the third person, is he deferring to Enoch?
In 3 Enoch, Enoch also becomes Metatron.
QUESTION 2: Does Jesus ever get known as Metatron, the Lesser Yahweh?
Jesus and Enoch/Metatron were voices of creation.
Jesus did not become a voice of creation until the last canonical gospel and after 1 Enoch was written; therefore, Christianity did a catch-up.
Platonic philosophy was widespread.
Jewish diaspora thinkers like Philo of Alexandria had already developed a robust Logos theology.
Christianity in the first century did have to catch up (just as Judaism had to catch up with the Hellenistic concept of Logos) and turn Jesus from being a Son of God into the Logos also.
The Julius Caesar and Octavian pair was Divine and Son of the Divine. Jesus had to be them and Decius Mus, one who sacrificed his life so others may live in victory, but Christianity also had to chase Logos theology/cosmology.
Judaism catching up via Enoch and Christianity via catching up via The Gospel of John needed the concept of God not being contaminated by creation. It was too powerful a framework not to have.
Steefen
Why didn’t the Christians just accept Logos without making Jesus the Logos?
My Answer: “Jesus was a composite character of historical hero fiction .”
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
That was a very interesting and humorous myth, Bart. Thanks for sharing it with us again.
I always believed that since the HS edits the Bible all the prophecies would come true [absence of doubt].
How often were Nostradamus’ prophecies wrong? https://poe.com/chat/pa72hrzx6qwv3e9tm1
So the nephilum were not wiped out by the flood? I am confused.
The idea of people being wiped out because of the way they are born reflects the christian doctrine that we deserve punishment because we are born sinners because of the sin of Adam and Eve. (Really hardliners say this includes the culpability of even young children.) The Bible talks about being held responsible for hereditary sin in contradictory terms – Ezekiel 18:20 and Exodus 34:7.
Then I guess King David’s and Bathsheba’s baby son died for his father’s sin.
The Bible is very puzzling at times (or often!)
Yes, in the Bible the Nephilim are completely destroyed. Everything is except for the lucky inhabitants of the ark.