I have received a number of suggestions about how to improve this blog, and so far the one I like best is for me to have an occasional guest make a contribution that people could interact with — that is, someone who is, like me, a scholar of NT or early Christianity who has a different thing or two to say. I think it’s a great idea. And I’m going to implement it for the first time tomorrow.
Here is a question I have recently been asked:
You’ve mention that most of your past/present fellow colleagues, friends, loved ones etc… agree with you when it comes to historical understanding of the bible and Christianity, but remain believers. I also understand the problem of suffering was the real reason for your loss of faith and not completely historical understanding. I guess my question is this: What keeps them believing in the very human invention of Christianity? Is it because they have a very liberal understanding and are more like Crossan and Borg, reinventing Christianity to make it make sense in the 21st century or is it something else. Do they ever try and explain to you where you’ve got it all wrong? What do they say?
I have come across a lot of people that use to be Christian and then through the process of reading your books and going to seminary are no longer Christians. This is a common question that comes up when discussing your books and your personal views with these people. If this is too personal, I apologize. But curious minds want to know 🙂
I’ve decided what would be really interesting is for me not to answer the question myself, but to have one of my friends in the field of New Testament studies answer it. And so I’ve asked my friend Jeff Siker, Professor of NT at Loyola Marymount University (it’s a Jesuit school, but he’s an ordained Presbyterian minister with a Masters of Divinity from Yale and a PhD, like me, in NT from Princeton Seminary) to tell me how *he* would answer. Among other things, he is a biblical theologian – yet he agrees with me on most of my historical views about the Bible. Jeff Siker is also the author of Jesus, Sin, and Perfection in Early Christianity and Homosexuality in the Church.
His answer is on the longish side — nearly 2000 words — and so I will post it in two stages, the first tomorrow and the second the day after.
He has agreed to interact with people if anyone has questions, issues, or downright objections to raise
This is a good idea. This morning I was deeply disturbed and wondered why I even study scripture. I totally agree with the results of Biblical scholarship but I do believe that there is spiritual truth we receive in reading the Bible.I am interested in hearing other voices.
This is a very good way to go, Bart. Expands participation, I believer, making it more inclusive and horizontal.
This is a great idea!
That is an amazingly good idea. I don’t know how you will follow up this first contribution with others that are of as much interest to as many! Something terrific to look forward to tomorrow!
Thanks!
This sounds like fun.
The problem of suffering though is primarily a philosophical question (at least it has been for the last several hundred years) so however much you discuss it from a biblical studies and/or theological perspective, you’re not fully coming to grips with it. That’s why, IMO, God’s Problem/Not Bart’s is such a disappointing book, though still useful in some ways.
I actually thought God’s Problem was a marvelous book. It’s been awhile since I read it, but as I recall Bart homed in on Ecclesiastes to posit that there is, after all is said and done, no divine reason for suffering. This could easily lead one to abandon faith, depending on what human conception of God is being abandoned in the process. Aside from the very real fact that we all suffer and that suffering hurts us a lot, however, that which is called ‘the problem of suffering’ need not be considered a problem per se in the larger scheme of things. That is, to the extent that our philosophical and theological presuppositions of suffering can be understood as merely limiting any deeper understanding of the phenomenon. In this regard, it may be helpful to consider some evolutionary perspectives in the context of a dynamic, changing earth. OK, I confess that I’m a geochronologist, but bear with me. The fossil record tells us that for the past 3.8 billion years all species of organisms that have ever lived on earth – including us, as very late arrivals — have consistently adapted to pre-existing environments. So it is *not* that the earth was pre-adapted for humans’ express benefit, any more than pools of boiling water in Yellowstone Park were especially created in anticipation of the unique algae that now occupy this niche environment. From these perspectives, human (and other animal) suffering can be understood as just a necessary component of living in a dynamic, changing world – to which we either adapt and survive, or not. After all, pathogens were around long before there were humans to suffer and die from them, or to adapt to them as a species by evolution through natural selection. So if a theological perspective claims, instead, that God originally zapped us humans into existence out of thin air (well, ok… from dust) as initially-perfect, feel-no-pain beings in an otherwise static, unchanging world… well, then speaking from purely an evolutionary perspective I would submit that the problem of suffering lies not with God per se but rather with a misconception of God as some kind of theistic personal protector. Instead, the existentialist theologian Paul Tillich has postulated that “the God of the god of theism” is actually the Ultimate, whereas the personal God of theism can be considered as a readily grasped symbol that merely *points* to this Ultimate. For many scientists (Einstein, for example), this Ultimate God created the best possible universe (why do any less?), which however necessitated its creation via the elegant evolutionary processes that have operated over a span of 13.7 billion years. Thus, from purely an evolutionary perspective, suffering as ‘God’s Problem’ can be transposed into a relatively small component of what I would call ‘God’s Process.’ Whereupon human (and animal) suffering is simply understood as a natural but necessary price to pay for the privilege of living our brief lives as sentient beings on an ever-renewing earth. Biblically speaking, I think Ecclesiastes is closest to also being scientifically correct in its perspective on suffering, if I remember Bart’s points accurately in ‘God’s Problem.’ Bart, please feel free to correct me if I’ve gone astray here.
Thank you for this great open minded idea.
Very much looking forward to this!
Would Sarah, your wife, be interested in posting something?
Interesting idea….
Gahh I keep putting off becoming a member, as I don’t have a PayPal account, but this does it. One too many interesting articles, the proverbial straw I guess. I’m curious how someone can be aware of all the historical flaws in the Bible, yet still hold to it as God’s Word – I have difficulty believing that God’s revelation to mankind should be anything less than perfect, but rather far above perfection as we know it, in order to reflect the greatness of a holy God. Hence why I’m no longer a Christian, among other reasons. And almost entirely why I’m a Muslim. That said, I look forward Prof. Siker’s article, if for no other reason than to understand the reasoning that goes into such a belief.
I think it’s a great idea!
If you can invite someone or several people who have been scholars of the Old Testament and would have something to say about its historical sources I would find that very interesting
Interesting idea!
Hello Mr. Erhman,
This is my first time making a comment and I am just a layperson. Is there hard proof that the concept of Hell originated from the pagans and was around before the canon was put together?
Thanks!
Well, there were people who believed in punishment after death for people who misbehaved in this life. But the notion of hell found in Christianity today developed out of Jewish apocalypticism, as I explain in earlier posts.
I can hardly wait!
Let’s go!!
Bart.
Any chance you could get one of your colleagues who specialize in archaeology to contribute a post on the evidence regarding Nazareth’s existence at the time of Jesus?
I have a feeling this whole topic drives you mad {!}, but it would be very good to have all the evidence set out in one place by a trained archaeologist.
Anyway, just an idea….Regards.
Interesting idea !
A really terrific idea both with regard to having guest columns and also having someone write who agrees with your analysis of history, but has remained a Christian. I also remain interested in the process of how you evolved away from fundamentalism. Was it primarily the issue of differences among different ancient Biblical texts (“Misquoting Jesus”) or contradictions in the Gospels (“Jesus Interrupted”) or both or something else?
It was both things. I deal with it most directly in my books Misquoting Jesus and Jesus Interrupted.