The Book of Revelation! I am ready now to start a new thread on my thoughts on the book, as I get serious about writing about it for a general audience. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago (see blog for June 20) that I had changed my mind rather radically about what my book was going to cover. I’ll explain the current plan (hopefully the *final* plan) in later posts. For now it would be important to start at the beginning so we are all on the same page.
And so in this post I want to review – or introduce, in case you’re not familiar with it – the contents of the book of Revelation itself, more or less free of interpretation. It’s not a long book, and can be read in one sitting. (Twenty-one chapters, but most are very short.) If you’re interested, go ahead and read it (for the first time or again!). You’ll pick up something new every time. Or at least I do, now in my 50th year of reading it!
Here is how
Want to see what Revelation is all about? Members of the blog can read posts like this five times a week. It’s easy and inexpensive to join. So what’s the hold up?? Click here for membership options I summarize the contents in my college-level textbook, The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings, edited slightly.
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The title of the book of Revelation comes from its opening words: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place” (Rev 1:1). The revelation, or apocalypse (from the Greek word for “unveiling” or “revealing”) concerns the end of time; it is given by God through Jesus and his angel to “his servant John” (1:1). The author appears to be known to his readers, who are identified as Christians of seven churches in Asia Minor (1:11). He begins to narrate his visionary experiences by describing his extraordinary encounter with the exalted Christ, the “one like a Son of Man” who walks in the midst of seven golden lampstands (1:12–20).
Christ instructs John to “write what you have seen, what is, and what is to take place after this” (1:19). In other words, he is to (a) narrate the vision of Christ that he has just had (“what you have seen”), (b) describe the present situation of the churches in his day (“what is”), and (c) record his visions of the end of time (“what is to take place after this”). The first task is accomplished in chapter 1. The second is undertaken in chapters 2–3. Christ dictates brief letters to each of the seven churches of Asia Minor, describing their situations and urging certain courses of action. These churches are experiencing difficulties: persecutions, false teachings, and apathy. Christ praises those who have done what is right, promising them a reward, but upbraids those who have fallen away, threatening them with judgment.
The third task is accomplished in chapters 4–22, which record John’s heavenly vision of the future course of history, down to the end of time. Briefly, the narrative unfolds as follows. The prophet is taken up into heaven through a window in the sky. There he beholds the throne of God, who is eternally worshiped and praised by twenty-four human “elders” and four “living creatures” (angelic beings in the shapes of animals; chap. 4). In the hand of the figure on the throne is a scroll sealed with seven seals, which cannot be broken except by one who is found worthy. This scroll records the future of the earth, and the prophet weeps when he sees that no one can break its seals; however, one of the elders informs him that there is one who is worthy, the Lion from the tribe of Judah. He then sees next to the throne not a lion but a “Lamb standing as if it had been slaughtered” (5:6). The Lamb, of course, is Christ.
The Lamb takes the scroll from the hand of God, amidst much praise and adoration from the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures, and he begins to break its seals (chap. 5). With each broken seal, a major catastrophe strikes the earth: war, famine, death. The sixth seal marks the climax, a disaster of cosmic proportions: the sun turns black, the moon turns red as blood, the stars fall from the sky, and the sky itself disappears. One might think that we have come to the end of all things, the destruction of the universe. But we are only in chapter 6.
The breaking of the seventh seal leads not to a solitary disaster but to a period of silence that is followed by an entirely new set of seven more disasters. Seven angels appear, each with a trumpet. As each one blows his trumpet, further devastations strike the earth: natural disasters on the land and sea and in the sky, the appearance of dread beasts who torture and maim, widespread calamity and unspeakable suffering (chaps. 8–9). The seventh trumpet marks the beginning of the end (11:15), the coming of the “Beast” (often called by readers “the Antichrist”) and his false prophet on earth (chaps. 12–13), and the appearance of seven more angels, each with a bowl filled with God’s wrath. As the angels each pour out their bowls upon the earth, further destruction and agony ensue: loathsome diseases, widespread misery, and death (chaps. 15–16).
The end comes with the destruction of the great “whore of Babylon,” the city ultimately responsible for the persecution of the saints (chap. 17). The city is overthrown, to much weeping and wailing on earth but to much rejoicing in heaven (chaps. 18–19). The defeat of the city is followed by a final cosmic battle in which Christ, with his heavenly armies, engages the forces of the Beast aligned against him (19:11–21). Christ wins a resounding victory. The enemies of God are completely crushed, and the Beast and his false prophet are thrown into a lake of burning sulfur to be tormented forever.
Satan himself is then imprisoned in a bottomless pit, while Christ and his saints rule on earth for a thousand years. Afterward, the Devil emerges for a brief time to lead some of the nations astray. Then comes a final judgment, in which all persons are raised from the dead and rewarded for their deeds. Those who have sided with Christ are brought into the eternal Kingdom; those who have aligned themselves with the Devil and the Beast are taken away for eternal torment in the lake of fire. The Devil himself is thrown into the lake, as are finally Hades and Death itself (chap. 20).
The prophet then has a vision of the new heaven and the new earth that God creates for his people. A new Jerusalem descends from heaven, with gates made of pearl and streets paved with gold. This is a beautiful and utopian place where Christ reigns eternal, where there is no fear or darkness, no pain or suffering or evil or death, a place where the good and righteous will dwell forever (chaps. 21–22). The prophet ends his book by emphasizing that his vision is true, and that it will come to fulfillment very soon.
What are we to make of this book, and how interpret it? More on that in posts to come.
In my mind the Revelation is not an end to the world, but exalting the world, from the within, from our own conciousness, either they call it conciousness, unconciousness, collective unconciousness or super conciousness,,,toward the essence of ourself.
According to quantum physics,,,this is the reality we all share, and the force behind all thing.
The symbols is used many times, and in my mind could be recognizable, and talks about our own being. In my mind this book takes us from where we stand, with our own spirital position, and the book reviele how things work, including our own state of mind, and even tell the factors who caused the fall with inner forces,,and the whore (materialbound part of our “Self”) fall of the “Self” in chapter 17 and 18, into a new conciousness.
Like Thomas Cahill , a scholar in medieval philosophy, scripture, and theology once wrote that the story of the Hebrew Bible is the story of an evolving consciousness, a consciousness that went through many stages of development.
It seems to be a process of spiritual redefinition and psychological maturation that is being unfolded. Carl Gustav Jung would call it “archetype of the Apocalypse” is the activation of the archetype of the Self–the central archetype of meaning–that is bringing with it some new worldview, a new God-image, a new relationship to the Divine, and a new stage of psychological maturation for the whole earth.
Would you say that the Book of Revelation is the most misunderstood book in the Bible, or what other books would you say compete for the title?
Most are widely misunderstood. But Revelation most obviously!
I’m eager to hear your insights into how Revelation can be understood 😎
As the good book says, it’s “coming soon.”
I learn so much more about the Bible from an atheist like Bart than from all the pastors I listened to when I was still a Xtian.
Do you have a theory why exactly this book of revelation were chosen amongs other similar books?
As soon as it came to be recognized as by John the son of Zebedee, it was fairly widely accepted.
It seems the judgment of the dead in chapter 20 has a bit of a mixed (conflicting? contradictory?) message.
On the one hand, everyone (and it is everyone, not just the saints) is judged according to their deeds. One would think someone who had not followed Christ but nevertheless led a righteous life would be judged accordingly and rewarded. But then in verse 15 everyone whose names are not written in the book of life (presumably non-Christians) is thrown into the lake of fire.
So which is it? Are people judged for their deeds, or judged according to whether their names appear in the book of life?
What if someone’s name is in the book of life, but they led a pretty appalling life (I’m sure we’ve met some of these people) would they be permitted into the new Jerusalem? Or what would happen to the non-Christian who spent their life treating others with respect, giving to the poor and living blamelessly – would they be thrown into the lake of fire?
Many Christians have thought (then as now) that only believers in Jesus can lead truly moral lives. And if that was how they were going to be, by definition their names would not be in the book of life.
Dr. Ehrman, are the events In Revelations 22:1-3 to take place in the future? or have these events already happened?
“Then he showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the Throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. There shall no more be anything accursed, but the THRONE of God AND OF THE LAMB shall be in it, and his servants shall worship him;” Revelation 22:1-3
For instance, where it states: “There shall no more be anything accursed, but the THRONE of God AND OF THE LAMB shall be in it, and his servants shall worship him;”
The part that states, “and his servants shall worship him;” is this worship a future event that will take place? or is this worship a past event or taking place right now?
Well, the events of Revelation have not yet happened. BUt I’ll be arguing that it’s a mistake to think that they are meant to be actual predictions of what will happen in our own future.
You have gone through The Book of Revelation for, I suppose, a record number of times that I am not surprise if you can memorize it. I would appreciate if you give your professional opinion on the book.
Trust me, I will be giving it.
A fundamentalist/literalist approach to Revelations leads to some pretty grotesque imagery– for instance you have to imagine a cube with dimensions approximating the moon’s attaching itself to the earth. The New Jerusalem. I’ve always felt that literalism descends into complete, laughable, absurdity in the Noah’s Ark story and in Revelations. Absurdity? Maybe madness would be a more appropriate word.
Notice your final point, your final word, and the very final point in the whole of the so-called ‘Bible.’ “Surely, I am coming soon.” Twenty CENTURIES later we still await this ‘coming’?
I took your advice. I went into the Greek to make sure I have the right interpretation. John 9:4. “We must do the works of him who sent US [hemas, not ‘me’] while it is day; night comes when no one can work.” This is Codex Sinaiticus, better and older than C. Vaticanus. Why did they change us — ‘nuac’ — to ‘me’? This was a Master saying in the story of the unsinful blind man that we ALL — including the Master — must ‘work’ while living, for death soon comes to us all. And we are still to wait, for he comes “soon” (Rev. 22:20)?
Look at the very next line, John 9:5. “AS LONG AS I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” Now, is Jesus Christ the light of our world OR NOT? Not according TO HIM, he isn’t.
Masters must be living, not long dead. Gospel authors, and then orthodox scribes ever afterward, CHANGED Christ’s message, whoever he was.
Continuing,
You don’t find John 9:4 as originally composed in C. Sinaiticus a compelling argument for the existence of other saviors? Christ tried to tell everyone — those of his time, that is (John 14:7) — that he came for only those IN THE WORLD at the same time as he. Look at John 9:5, 13:1, or 17:11. His own were “in the world” — not waiting to be born centuries later, or born centuries before! This is big news indeed. Am I not right? Christians, what do you think? Do you believe Christ or lying scribes???
You tell me that journals accept well researched articles, powerfully written with regard to the original language. I write such papers. Well, the Journal of Gnostic Studies rejected mine. I guess my ‘bias’ is getting in my way, right?
I suppose that’s the thing: when you do your research you always will refer to the top articles in the very best international journals. The “top” journals depend entirely on what you’re righting about. Works on variant forms of Xty, in the second or third century,for example, make perfect sense for VC or JECS or EC, but not for JBL, NTS, NovT etc — depending on what your angle is; whereas the reverse would be true of an exegesis of John. Bias is not an issue, since scholarship is scholarship; and if it is advancing a non-scholarly agenda (i.e., promoting a bias) then it simply isn’t scholarship. These journals do not look at an authors beliefs, theology, or ideology; they look to see whether the article submitted meets the standards of high level scholarship.
Sinaiticus is not normally considered older and better than Vaticanus, where it has been widely influenced by what used to be called the “Western” textual tradition. In any event, the “oldest” reading in the ms tradition is not the reading of the oldest ms (whether we are talking about the NT, Homer, Plato, or any other ancient text).
Can we really tell if it is being misunderstood? Perhaps that is too easy. I mean can really really tell the extent to which it is being misunderstood?
It is without question misunderstood. THe reason we know that is that there are thousands of interpretations of it that are at odds with one another, and necessarily that means almost all of them are wrong.
Christians have claimed that the greek word ἐτάφη, used in the 1 Corinthians 15 creed, could not be applied to mass graves. Is this true?
I doubt it. What’s there evidence or reason for saying so?
Hm. I can’t quite find their source now. Is there any way to search through, like, the entire database of all Koine Greek texts.
THere are databases but they are complicated and, of course, require a good knowledge of Greek. BUt if you find out the evidence/reason let me know. (ANd remind me what we are talking about when you do!)
Ah, I think I misinterpreted what they said. Here is the quote (from Dale Allison)
“Another pre-Pauline tradition about Jesus’ death appears in 1 Cor. 15:4, which asserts that Jesus was “buried” (ἐτάφη). The assertion is bare. Who buried him? Where? When? The text holds no hints. It does, nonetheless, clearly assume that Jesus’ body did not suffer the fate of so many victims of Roman crucifixion: his corpse was neither left upon its cross to rot in the sun unceremoniously dumped into an unmarked trench or pile to become food for scavengers (Contrast Suetonius, Aug. 13.1-2; Tacitus, Ann. 6.29; Petronius, Satyr. 111; Horace, Ep. 1.16.48; Artemidorus, Onir. 2.53; 4.49; Eusebius, Hist. Eccl. 5:1.57-63; Mart. Pal. 9:9-10). Rather, somebody (the passive verb ἐτάφη leaves us in the dark) laid Jesus in the ground or in a cave.” From: D.C. Allison, Constructing Jesus: Memory, Imagination, and History (Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2010), 403.
I misinterpreted “unmarked trench” as mass grave. I think it means a literal trench that no dirt is poured over (thus, not buried).
Yes, that’s right. The word presupposes that in Paul’s view Jesus was interred, either in a burial cave or in the ground with dirt cast on him. Some sources say talk about burial as even involving just a few handfuls of dirt.
I always like the imagery in Revelation. Any other books of that time period that are similar in nature and of the same quality?
Yes, as we’ll be seeing, there are other works like it, both Jewish and CHristian. Jewish: see 1 ENoch, 4 Ezra, 2 Baruch. Or even Daniel.
Do you dock points for students who refer to it as the Book of Revelation*s*?
No. I fail them.
I wish I had met thinking such as yours when I was 18 in 1973 and got wrapped up in an alternative view of Christianity through Sun Myung Moon’s “Divine Principle.” At least that theology opened my eyes to the various ways the New Testament (as well as the Hebrew Bible) can be interpreted – even to proclaim oneself the new messiah after Jesus as Moon does with logic that my 18-year-old understanding could not refute. The Book of Revelation was interpreted in many ways to explain how Moon could be the “man” to further the mission of Jesus to bring the new Jerusalem to earth. It was heady stuff that kept me going for a decade. Now I am an atheist and yet fascinated by early Christianity. I have read every book you have written, Mr. Erhman, and gained insights from each one. If I could have been your student, I am sure I would have passed 🙂
AH, I was 18 in 1973 as well — and attending the fundamenatlist Moody Bible INstitute, with it’s *own* interpretations of Revelation. Do you know of any decent books that discuss Moon’s views / interpretation of Revelation?
This discussion of Divine Principle (the title of Moon’s teachings) eschatology is probably the best writing to be found. It presumes some knowledge of the overall teaching, but I just read it and I think it is clear enough. https://www.discoverdp.info/eschatology.html
Perfect! Thanks.
Thank you for summarizing so concisely a book that has always seemed too full of preposterous nonsense for me to endure actually reading it. Every excerpt from it I’ve seen just reminded me of listening to someone narrate a particularly ugly and vivid bad acid trip, so you’ve performed a valuable service here.
Interesting that God lets the Devil come back and raise hell, so to speak.
According to this N.T. theology, do * ALL* people must accept Christ as their Savior and redeemer/king, including Jews or are they included being God’s chosen nation ? The new Jerusalem is still prevalent even in Revelation, it must have some significance.
For this text, being a Jew is of no use for future salvation. The author refers to them as worshiping in a “Synagogue of Satan”
How will your proposed book on the Revelation of John differ from Bruce Metzger’s?
His is a step-by-step explanation of passages, kind of like a commentary for people wanting to know what the meaning of this symbol and this chapter might be. Mine will be nothing like that. I agree with a lot of his views, which are fairly standard in most ways; but mine will be a very different beast.
Rev 22:12 – “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to reward each one as his work deserves…” (NASB) Do you think the author is saying one is saved by his works, or it really is faith in Jesus but he’s just not being that careful with his phrasing? Or perhaps, one’s work for Jesus, faltering vs faithful as exemplified by the martyrs?
Works means salvation through meditation. That is from a true Master. There *are* real Masters. Perfect living Masters. At least one is always here on earth. That is what THEY say. Whole books are written by them on Gospels Matthew and John — and others, available at cost to all, shipped free. Scienceofthesoul.org
Absolutely every question is answered. Anyone can see the current Master when he comes to Fayetteville and Petaluma. All are welcome. http://Www.rssb.org
If anyone doubts that they are real, perhaps their service (Seva) is convincing. My Master built an entire regional hospital in Punjab, India, staffed by volunteers, paid for by donations that treats everyone who comes for free, and even puts up their FAMILIES for the duration at no charge. They once held annual cataract eye camps for thousands. I’ve seen crowds that easily top 200k — all fed, and many housed, for free. No charge for anything, including initiation.
I can explain everything about the New Testament teachings by what I learned from these masters. It’s pure mysticism, not at all what standard Christianity teaches. Gnosticism is very close, if not identical with the Truth. The Gospel of Judas, a breakthrough.
Like lots of CHristians ancient and modern, this author appears to think that only believers in Jesus will do the “works” that merit eternal life…. He has an extreme Insider/Outsider perspective, with most human beings utterly wicked followers of Satan and his henchmen.
Revelation 6:9-10 speaks of those who have been martyred for the truth and beg the Lamb to avenge their blood. Whom do you think this refers to? As far as we know, persecution of Christians (of whatever stripe) by Roman authorities was quite minimal and/or sporadic in the 1st century. There just weren’t very many Christians to begin with at the time. If we go by the traditional dating of Revelation to the late 1st/early 2nd century, we mainly have the alleged persecutions under Nero, under Domitian, and maybe Pliny the Younger (if you can call that a persecution). Nero’s persecution is recorded by Tacitus (a staunch critic of Nero, so grain of salt and all that) and later Christian writers, but would have been limited to just Rome as far as we know; Domitian’s persecutions are also recalled only in the writings of later Christians and it’s not clear how extensive they were, if they happened at all; and Pliny’s were really just some isolated trials and interrogations, it seems, and no contemporary Christian writers even took note of them. So what’s going on here?
For about 30 years or so now scholars have argued that the author is addressing a *perceived* problem that may not have literally existed, of extensive martyrdoms of Xns. Nero did have some executed, in grisly ways, but other than that, we don’t have much evidence of it happening. Still, many outsider groups feel that they *are* persecuted and are putting their lives on the line, when it’s just not so.
Really i don’t understand the way scholars sometimes make his conclusions
Pliny the Younger letter:
‘I have never before participated in trials of Christians’ so christians were put on trial only because they were christians and Pliny knew it .
ok, it’s the only reference of such trials but do we have letters from governors of every roman province in that time? ( kinda mythicist claims about absence of record)
And we know how Romans did their business :
“I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses.”
And the , Trajan response to Pliny :
“You observed proper procedure…in sifting the cases of those who had been denounced to you as Christians…. They are not to be sought out; if they are denounced and proved guilty, they are to be punished”
The emperor himself! really it was something *perceived*??????
The issue is definitely not whether CHristians were sometimes persecuted. THe issue is whether htey were *widely* persecuted, let alone martryed, atthe end of the 1st century. It appears the answer is no.
Well it depends on what we call ‘widely’, but it is clear from Pliny letters that to be a Christian was enough to be put on trial and Tacitus considered them “criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment” “not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. ” and he was not alone , they were chosen as scapegoats because “the populace” saw them as “class hated for their abominations”.
With such well attested strong feelings against christians from a roman senator and the roman people do we have to cast doubts about christians claims on persecution only because there are not ‘enough’ records when what we DO have matches exactly with those claims ?
Yes, teh Pliny letters are very interesting indeed, and extremely important. But among other things, Pooiny idicates that he has never seen or heard of trials against Christians and does not know how to proceed exactly. So he comes up with an idea and the emperor sends his approval. That shows there was no law against being a Xn and that any official proceedings were few and far between. We have no other record of Christians experiencing official Roman opposition from the time of Nero (50 years earlier) except for the incident involving Ignatius, at about the same time as Pliny, but in Antioch. We do not know, hoeverr, why Ignatius has been condemned. For an interesting assessment of the situation on the ground, you might be interested in CAndida Moss’s book The Myth of Christian Persecution.
Why think about complex psychological explanations for things that could be explained so easily?
“They didn’t think they were forging , it was an ancient practice to write in the name of a well known author .. ”
Come on ! they forged those works , they knew perfectly what they were doing.
“Jesus’ followers had some kind of ‘visions’ of him resurrected because of the expectation about the end of time and so …”
What if somebody invented those resurrection stories and then others believe them because they trust him? Could it not be as simple ? So many cults started from pure lies ….
“Some outsider groups feel that they are persecuted but in fact …”
Christians were persecuted, put on trial , tortured and killed just as Pliny and Tacitus recorded .
It was not something christians felt , it was something that really happened to them !!!
YEs, I agree. They did know what they were doing. THey were lying about their identity. And, as I said, it was a common practice. Again, if you would like to read up on it, you might take a look at one of my two books on forgery. ANd yes, it’s possible the resurrection stories were simply invented, absolutely. But there are very good reasons ofr thinkking that they are based on what some of JEsus’ followers believed they actdually saw. I talk about all that in my book How Jesus BEcame God.
¨does not know how to proceed exactly. So he comes up with an idea¨
well, i see quite the opposite
¨offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and also cursed Christ ¨
Why did he proceed that way?
because ¨it is said… none of which those who are really Christians can be forced to do¨
IT IS SAID , Plny learned from others how to deal with christians and then he asked Trajan if he proceeded as expected.
¨You observed proper procedure in sifting the cases of those who had been denounced to you as Christians. ¨ was the answer.
No more mythicists of ¨chrsitian persecution¨, persecution of christians were as real as Jesus.
Killings under Nero.
‘Nero did have some executed,’
That’s not what Tacitus wrote…
“ Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted”
An immense multitude …
‘They were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus.’
In the gardens, in the circus, all sort of punishments, they were NOT certainly ‘some’
This is not apologetics , this is a roman account .
Counterpoint:
The use of ‘large number’ (‘immense multitude’ is a weak translation) is a sign Tacitus himself has no idea how many were killed. In addition, Tacitus says a ‘large number’ were convicted, then talks about those who were put to death, not stating that all, or even most, of those who were convicted were sentenced to death.
No other sources regarding the Great Fire mention Christians in connection with it. Moreover, the term ‘Christian’ as applied (either endogenously or exogenously) to any group in the 1st century AD is questionable; all the examples we know of are second-century. So Tacitus is anachronistic in stating that Nero rounded up a group called ‘Christiani’, as there was no such named group in AD 54. Even a couple of generations later Pliny the Younger knew almost nothing about the Christians.
There was a fire in Rome. Nero took some action against Christians, based on Tacitus and Suetonius. But the two don’t seem to be connected, and there isn’t good evidence of specific targeting of Christians, as opposed to a more scattershot attempt to cast blame by rounding up marginal members of Roman society (of all kinds) and putting some of them to death.
He didn’t know the exact number but he wrote “multitudo ingens” I’m not a latin scholar but in spanish “ingentes multitudes” means a lot of people and that’s probably the real meaning.
“No other sources regarding the Great Fire“ … how many sources do you know wrote about the Great Fire and how detailed were those sources to cast doubts about Tacitus?
“Tacitus is anachronistic in stating that Nero rounded up a group called ‘Christiani’”
Suetonius wrote:
Iudaeos impulsore Chresto assidue tumultuantis Roma expulit in relation to an incident that happened more than a decade BEFORE the Great Fire.
You don’t have proof to call it anachronistic, but even if it were that doesn’t mean the incident didn’t happen or it was not related to christians.
´rounding up marginal members of Roman society (of all kinds)´
this is not what Tacitus nor other source said about the incident but your conclusion
The Book of Revelation is believed to have been written in 95. Emperor Nero was violently overthrown by the Romans and died in 68. Yet Nero is also believed to be represented by the “number of the beast,” 666, in Revelation. Why would the author of Revelation still be focused on the Emperor Nero almost a generation after Nero’s death? Domitian was emperor in 95 and he is reported to have persecuted Christians. Why did the author of Revelation not symbolically target (clearly he could not safely do so openly) the current emperor, Domitian, instead of the long dead Nero? Could it be that the number 666 has a meaning other than Nero?
THere was a widespread rumor of Nero redivivus: Nero was cmong back (possibly never having died) at the head of the Parthian armies to wreak vengeance on Rome. Jewish and Xn apoclypaticists picked up on this theme for their own purposes in the generation or so after Nero’s death. (E.g., in the Sibylline Oracles)
I’m sure it’s going to be a terrific book, looking forward to it.
What would be the best proof (within the Book of Revelation) that author is writing about his own near future and not about distant future (few thousand years )?
One is that the symbols he refers to can be shown to be referring to powers (Rome) and people (Nero) from his own time. Another is that when he writes, he says he is writing to the seven churches of Asia Minor of his own day, and he addresses their own situations. We don’t know of any writers from antiquity who were writing books to be place in a time capsule to be read by the intended audience centuries or millennia later; especially authors like John, who kept insisting that the end of all things was coming “soon.)
Thanks.
Do you know why John chose exactly those Seven churches: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea? Those cities are quite close to each other in Turkey. But why them, why not any others?
Do scholars know anything about the teaching of the Nicolaitans? Why are they heretics?
Also, it looks like Jesus is saying to John: Rev2:6: “But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.”
I’m surprised that Jesus hates… He should be full of love, even love to his enemies. I thought Jesus wouldn’t like something but hate – isn’t that too much?
Apparently because they were the ones he was personally associated with. Nicolaitans here refers to a group of CHristians who appear to support the right of CHristians to eat food offered to idols. And yup, lots of hate in Revelation. THat will be a major part of my book
Revelation is quite dark.But I find some things very comical.
Rev 5:4 “I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll…”
It’s a vision,why is he weeping so much?Vision is not over yet,he probably doesn’t know what it means.No reason to weep.
Next:
“Do not weep!See,the Lion of the tribe of Judah…is able to open the scroll…”
You’re expecting Lion,but…
“Then I saw a Lamb..”
Tadaa Lion is Lamb..Not any Lamb:
“a Lamb,looking as if it had been slain”…
Rev 5:9 “And they sang a new song…”
A new song-did someone compose it especially for John’s vision?
Rev 8:1 “When he opened the seventh seal,there was silence in heaven for about half an hour”.
John is having vision,during vision there is a 30mins silence.So he is just standing there for half an hour,staring at the creatures and just waiting 30 minutes to pass in silence.
Or is it like with dvd remote controller and he is pressing fast forward button….?Btw I’m sure John in not wearing a watch…
I’m not making fun of the book.
But some situations are quite funny even if it wasn’t intention of the author…Does every small detail in the book have a different meaning?So it’s funny only if it’s understood literally?
What do you think?
Yes, I think often something one means with dead seriousness strikes others as humorous.
He is talking about his own time. “Coming soon” is not 2021.
Douglas Del Tondo, a Christian author/lawyer I met in Southetn California, on the same trip I met Dr. Robert Eisenman, wrote in Jesus Words Only that Paul is compared to Balaam in the Pergamum letter in 2:14. Both were apostates teaching it was permissible to eat food sacrificed to idols and to fornicate (adultery). Jesus was identifying Paul as a coming false prophet. Comment?
Rev. 2 also says he will war with “the sword of my mouth,” and give hidden ‘manna’ (gathered before dawn in meditation), and Name on a stone — all WORD, or mystic Logos. The visions, as with Ezekiel and Daniel and Zechariah were not for our time but theirs. Daniel 7 and Rev. 12 were about James and Essene followers chased into the desert (by Paul?).
The ‘wheels’ with eyes and sparks in Ezekiel are clearly analogous to chakras in Eastern mystic writings. Zehariah, my favorite, has good shepherd/bad shepherd “Strike the shepherd” with the sword (a good thing, same as the ‘cutting’ of the guard’s ear at Gethsemane), misused in the Gospel’s ‘Betrayal’ scenario to prop up the supposedly sacrificed Jesus (James — ‘Judas’).
Dr.Ehrman,
Do you think Christianity would be a completely different entity if Revelation would have been left out of the canon? It seems the hope of so many believers are invested in its truth. I grew up in a Pentecostal environment,so I was constantly bombarded with this book. It kind of traumatized me,to be honest. I look forward to your take on it.
I’d say that throughout CHristian history Revelation has almost always been way out on the margins for most Christian communities. THat began to change only at the end of the 19th century (and outside of fundamentalist and conservative evangelical circles, it still is very much on the margins)
Jack – “The Pope will be the Antichrist”-Chick was a favorite of my dad. It’s safe to say Mr.Chick was not a fan of Catholicism.😉
A part of me is fascinated by the Book of Revelation.
Another part of me wants to go back in time and destroy every single trace of it.
Thanks Professor. But where are the four horsemen of the Apocalypse, the drumming of whose distant hooves I fear we can almost hear today 😒?
Where are they in Revelation? THe first four seals. Where are they really? Only in Revelation!
Unless you read Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett. They tell us what the Four were up to in the meantime (and that Pestilence retired in the 1950s, muttering something about penicillin – he was replaced by Pollution).
RIght!!
I gather that my post comments are either not helpful, or not sufficiently on topic. Remaining in moderation Limbo is a kind of backhanded deletion. Message understood. I will desist, and if you prefer to delete my comments that remain, that is okay. I was perhaps a bit carried away by enthusiasm and an interest in engaging with someone I had followed for a long time. No problem. I am not offended and my small donation does not entitle me to your devoted attention. I hope you enjoy your trip to London.
I”m not sure if some of your comments have not been posted or not. If not, yes, it would probably be because they were either disrespectful or not releveant to the purposes of the blog. Why don’t you send me one of them on email and I can tell you what the issue was? The other option is that I messed up!
They are now all posted. (I made an assumption since other posts were appearing, and mine seemed to remain in moderation . . . until now. Patterns form assumptions, but assumptions are not necessarily valid, even when the seem to make sense. Perhaps you were just really busy preparing your trip to England. I hope you and your wife enjoy it (and I wish I happened to be there myself, but even vaccinated, I am not sure that I am ready for a long plane ride just yet).
In chapters 2-3 John addressed the seven churches, it seems that he wants to reassure his authority over the asian(province) churches after his prison in Patmos .
He warned some church leaders that they could be even removed from their position (‘ I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place’) , others could be helped in the fight against some groups inside the churches (‘ I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth’) and so on but always from a position of authority.
Question to Bart.
Who was that John of Patmos? Or better, what do modern scholarship know about that obscure but fascinating character?
I’m afraid we know very little — just what we can glean from teh book. He was a prophet, connected with churches in Asia Minor, near the end of the 1st c. He was not John the Son of Zebedee; he is often assumed to be an Aramaic speaking Jew from Israel, but I”ve yet to be convinced he was Jewish or from Israel. His Greek is not good; often it is said that that’s because it wasa a second langauge for him, but my sense is that he simply was not highly skilled as a writer.
I’m afraid we know very little — just what we can glean from teh book. He was a prophet, connected with churches in Asia Minor, near the end of the 1st c. He was not John the Son of Zebedee; he is often assumed to be an Aramaic speaking Jew from Israel, but I”ve yet to be convinced he was Jewish or from Israel. His Greek is not good; often it is said that that’s because it wasa a second langauge for him, but my sense is that he simply was not highly skilled as a writer.
When I was a believer, I always struggled with the repeated admonition that the events described in this revelation were to happen soon, starting with the very first verse. Particularly noteworthy is Revelation 22:10 where the author is instructed NOT to seal up the words of the prophecy, because the “time is at hand.” Contrast that with Daniel 12:4 where Daniel is to told to seal up the words of his book till the time of the end. How can these passages be reconciled with a fulfillment that is, 2000 years later, still in the future? Or let me guess, you’ll be addressing that shortly?
I haven’t decided yet, but it is one of the very striking things about the book. THe author does expcect it all to happen “soon” (nice observation of the contrast with DAniel! It’s telling). ANd he is writing to churche in Asia Minor in his day, etllin gthem that — not to AMericans in the 21st century!
Can’t wait for your book on Revelation. Hopefully next year?
As the author of Revelation himself said, it is “coming soon.” Hopefully in my case, though, it won’t be 2000 years. My guess would be end of 2022 for it to be published. But I haven’t started writing it yet….
So are ‘the Beast’, ‘the Antichrist’, Devil’, and ‘Satan’ different beings in Revelation?
THe ANtichrist is never mentioned (most people don’t know that!). The Devil and Satan are teh same being; the Beast is different (it’s the city of Rome)
When you mention Devil and Satan in your summary are there two different words also used in the original greek for Revelation or just one? (And what would it/they be?)
There are two different words and Christians have normally taken them to refer to the same being.
Prof Ehrman,
Contrasting your statement “…those who have aligned themselves with the Devil and the Beast are taken away for eternal torment in the lake of fire.” with one of the major highlight from ‘Heaven and Hell’ that eternal torment in the lake of fire by those who do not inherit the kingdom isn’t what the fate of the unrighteous is but rather eternal annihilation.
What can we deduce from this contrast – Are different parts of the NT (say Matthew 25 against the book of Revelation) saying different things or these can be reconciled and harmonized? Your more recent position has been the latter (annihilation), how then does one deal with your slightly modified extract from your textbook (quoted above) OR you held a different view back then up until ‘Heaven and Hell’?
Ah, yes. Since I wrote that sentence in my textbook I’ve realized that humans are not sent to eternal torment in the fire but to eternal destruction. I shoujld have edited the post.
Bart, Years ago I taught on the book of Revelation using, as a text, Days of Vengeance by David Chilton. This book comes at Revelation from a place of Dominion Theology, probably considered partial Preterist. I have since changed many (most) of my views on this but some items still hold up-I think. Since I don’t have your knowledge of Greek or New Testament history I hopefully can ask questions and learn. That’s what I’m here for. That and to help the charities that are helped by the blog.
Steefen
14 calamities happen (with each broken seal of seven seals, a major catastrophe and further devastation with each of the seven angels with a trumpet). The end comes with the destruction of the Whore of Babylon.
Babylon’s Whore has a Beast who has a false prophet, all of whom are done away with forever.
Satan is imprisoned. After a thousand years of Christ and saints ruling on earth, the Devil emerges and leads astray some nations. A final judgment, then a new Jerusalem.
BDEhrman
All of this is to start happening soon [around the year 96 CE, about the time Revelation was written].
Steefen
All of this is different, more fantastical from Jesus’s Apocalypse in the Gospels (Tribulation w/ Jerusalem surrounded by armies and the destruction of the Temple, followed by the Son of Man coming in his glory…).
Should a Christian just go with the End of the World by the gospels instead of the End of the World by Revelation–just go with what the biblical earthly Jesus said?
You say the author expects all of this to start happening soon, 14 devastations, a thousand years, then an eternal New Jerusalem. The clock hasn’t started ticking because we cannot find the 14 devastations, right?
“streets paved with gold”
I just wanted to point out that the city only has one street. I think there’s some symbolic significance to that. There’s just one way.
And the twelve gates are twelve pearls, each of the gates is a single pearl, and the street of the city is pure gold, transparent as glass. (NRS Rev 21:9)
Sorry about the typo. That’s Rev. 21:21 above. But Rev 21:9 is an interesting verse also. The angel says he’s going to show him the Lamb’s wife but he shows him the heavenly Jerusalem.