(13 votes, average: 4.62 out of 5)
Loading...A friend of mine from 50 years ago got in touch with me recently. We were roommates at Moody Bible Institute, and became youth pastors together at Trinity Covenant Church in Oak Lawn, Illinois. I’ve been reminiscing about those days, and have been thinking about an event connected with the church that I talked about in my book How Jesus Became God (HarperOne, 2014). It involves a sad moment when my doubts about the Christian faith were starting to take hold.
Here what I said there.
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When I attended Moody Bible Institute in the mid 1970s, every student
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I attend church, but I have never been a good Christian. Your story reminded me of a time when my thoughtless words made a devout Christian cry. What you said to your pastor seems very different: it sounds like an honest cry from the heart. Perhaps those who sincerely seek truth suffer most from such doubts.
One thing occurred to me—and I apologize for bringing in an Asian perspective. I wonder whether this struggle is intense within a monotheistic, Bible-centered way of thinking.
The Buddha’s teachings were transmitted orally for centuries before being written down. There are hundreds of Buddhist texts, and I suspect that less than one percent of their contents can be traced directly to his words. In a sense, a vast game of telephone has continued for thousands of years. Many Buddhist clergy and believers recognize this, yet they still believe. Why? I do not know.
I have realized that I may have been shaped by this Asian religious culture, and that it influences how I face contradictions in the Bible. I am not sure “liberal” is the right word. I simply wanted to mention that there are also unconventional—or perhaps “fake”—Christians like me.
You’ve written often about your Princeton years, so forgive me if you have covered this already. You were surrounded there by Christians who read the Bible critically, so I don’t imagine the difficulty was that no alternative existed; I’m curious only about the sequence in your own case. By the time your doubts about Jesus’ divinity took hold, had you already encountered a teacher or fellow student who accepted that Jesus probably did not say John 14:6, and likewise did not make the Johannine claims to divinity you mention here, yet still affirmed Christ’s divinity? Or did that come later?
Princeton Seminary was very, very diverse, with some hard-core evangelicals and moderate Protestants and some pretty wild left-wingers (theologically, religiously, culturally, socially). But some classes certainly acknowledged and showed the historical problems with the claims of the Gospels, even while affirming that they functioned as Scxripture in the church.
Thank you. The picture of Princeton as that diverse, with classes that faced the historical problems squarely while still letting the Gospels function as Scripture, answers my question about the setting well. I appreciate you taking the time.
Thanks for this. I was raised in the Covenant Church, attended North Park. Familiar with both Moody and Wheaton, of course. (Goranson sounds like a good Covenant pastor…I still know several of them.).
I too worked as a youth minister, but in a conservative PC USA church. But I found my way to PTS while in the middle of a faith crisis. My experience at PTS cracked me open. Painful. But necessary. I still remember the collective gasp when in OT 101 the professor remarked as an aside to the lecture: Moses was not likely one individual, but an amalgam of various Israelite leaders—the platonic form of it. All of our Sunday school fairy tales unmasked with one breath. Once the moment settled you could see all of us nodding: Makes sense! Carry on, Dr.
Those were years of deconstruction before I had a word for it. 20 years later and I now serve as a chaplain of a retirement community filled with retired academics/theologians from the Princeton area. A couple of PTS retired professors, too. It’s a good place to land.
Thanks, again, for sharing. It’s good to know that others have trod a similar path.
Thanks. When were you at PTS and who was your OT 101 prof?
I’m not clergy, but I’m still very much involved in my local church. My transition towards your direction re faith matters was long and quiet. I finally crossed the line 15 years ago. But my church connections and friendships were so important to me that I decided to stay and never openly discuss where I was mentally. Haven’t had any trouble so far, amazingly enough. I guess it’s because believing Christians may expect an atheist to be an angry mouth frothing O’Hare, Dawkins, or Hitchens caricature. I still attend and recite the Nicene Creed in good conscience, since nothing in it is disprovable and I’m required to believe it to be a member in good standing. But I don’t see any requirement to personally accept much of it as plausible. But I also have no plans to stand up in the middle of a church service and list off those implausibilities and my feelings thereof. There’s a term I encountered for what I am: Physically In, Mentally Out.
“Physically In, Mentally Out” … bingo … my journey continues in the same vein. It’s hard sometimes but I love my family and friends so I go on in silence. I read, listen to various talks and podcasts and contemplate the universe (go out at night sometimes and look at all the stars and think – how did this all start). Bart’s books and lectures have been a huge source of comfort and intellectual refuge for me.
Like you, Duke12, I am very involved in the local Methodist church. But I am not a believer — that is I do not believe that Jesus was particularly divine and I do not sing in the choir except on, say, Christmas because I really can’t honestly sing praises to Jesus. I do play bells though. And I’m certainly a Matthew 25 person and I participate in many of the missions of the church, particularly cooking and serving meals to the homeless.
No, I also don’t broadcast my viewpoint, my theology (I’m literally a pagan) to the congregation. Few folks there or even within my own family know my theology.
So, I am a fellow traveller.
Excerpt from Deifying Disaster by M.R Conway:
To go back in time when I saw,
Within my faith, not a single flaw.
When purpose felt so close at hand,
When God’s beauty filled the land.
Now I sit and ponder the loss,
To wonder if ever there was a cross.
A poem for whom religious change is painful.
The fresco fades, the vaulted arches fall,
As shadow creeps across the ritual hall.
A hidden cipher that I cannot read
Has broken down the fabric of my creed.
I followed tracks across the ancient stone,
But at the center, I am left alone.
No longer blinded by the holy myth,
I mourn the loss of what I journeyed with.
The sacred geometry is stripped of grace,
A hollow symbol in an empty space.
Beneath the Rose, the secret is unsealed:
There is no divine truth to be revealed.
I searched the tomb where ancient secrets sleep,
For vows a silent brotherhood would keep,
And wept beside a knight in templar mail,
Whose funeral a Pope presided over, to no avail.
The grand design dissolves into the dust,
And with it dies my childhood’s quiet trust.
The keystone shatters, and the pillars shake,
As from a fevered dream I finally wake.
The bloodline vanishes, the gold turns dim,
I sing no more the sanctuary hymn.
How bitter is the clarity I scan:
How deep the wound, so dark the con of man.
Dr. Ehrman,
I appreciate you more than you’ll ever know. I was a Baptist pastor for 15 years. I was a 5 point Calvinist who believed in personal evangelism (God will bring the elect, that gave me confidence). Yet, by year 13 I had read Christian writers who believed in evolution. I also read Robert Jastrow’s God and the Astronomers. And thus, Genesis seemed more and more like fairy tales. I was questioning the fairness of hell since I saw so many people of other faiths who acted more Christian than my own flock. Then I had to come to grips with a terrible family tragedy. And my Calvinism and Christian faith fell to pieces. By year 15, I felt like a prostitute. I didn’t believe much, but I had to make a living. I finally got the courage and walked away. And I have not looked back in 22 years of agnosticism, and at times, hard atheism. Your books helped me make sense of what had happened to me. I am in a reading group that is currently going through your book on Lost Christianities. Keep doing what you do!!!
You’ve had quite a journey. Thanks for our words!
When you were an evangelical Christian, you mentioned that you believed in predestination. I have always wondered how you understood one apparent difficulty with that belief.
If God has already determined who will hear the gospel, who will respond to it, and who will ultimately be saved, in what meaningful sense can human beings be held responsible for their response?
From my perspective, this creates a serious tension. If a person’s eternal destiny has already been determined by God, why does evangelism matter? Presumably, those whom God has chosen will ultimately be saved, while those whom God has not chosen will not be saved, regardless of human effort.
How did you reconcile this tension when you were an evangelical? And how do evangelicals today—especially Calvinists who are deeply committed to missionary work—reconcile divine sovereignty and predestination with evangelism and genuine human responsibility?
I often said that I didn’t know! But somehow we had personal responsibility even though it was all foreseen and so already determined. Go figure. (I should point out that contradictions like that do not necessarily mean both things aren’t in some sense true. Think: quantum!)
That makes sense. Quantum mechanics certainly reminds us that reality does not always conform to our ordinary categories of logic, causation, and determinism. So perhaps divine determination and human responsibility could both be true in some way that we cannot fully understand.
If God exists as a transcendent being beyond our spacetime—perhaps in something like a higher dimension—then God may not experience time, cause, and effect as we do. In that sense, the apparent contradiction may not be entirely irrational.
Still, this does not really resolve the problem; it only suggests that our ordinary understanding may be too limited. And of course, this is ultimately a question of theology or metaphysics rather than history.
Thank you, Bart!
Emily Dickinson expressed my own feelings at what led to loss of faith.
To lose One’s faith — surpass
The loss of an Estate —
Because Estates can be
Replenished — faith cannot —
Inherited with Life —
Belief —but once — can be —
Annihilate a single clause —
And Being’s — Beggary —
Ah…
I’ll bet many of us can relate to someone desperate for us to believe something that is not based in facts. As one of my family members said to me, “you are a unicorn in our family.” I think almost all of the others think sadly that I have lost my way. I too was in an evangelical church from age 5 on and went to Liberty Baptist College (not Liberty University.) Witnessing to others was a required course at Liberty and you had to have hours of talking to people about Jesus. I cringe now.
I had not known this much detail about your spiritual journey until I read this article. I hope there is a part 2.
THere are lots more parts, going down till today! But none directly connected with that story per se.
Hi Bart,
I was wondering if you might consider writing a blog post about Marcion of Sinope sometime. I’m especially interested in his idea of there being two gods and would love to hear your perspective on it.
If you’ve already covered this topic, could you let me know where I can find those posts on your blog? I’d really appreciate it.
Thank you for all the work you do. I always enjoy reading your blog.
Best,
Joseph
Yes, I’ve done so! Do a word search for “Marcion” and you’ll find them.
I guess I could’ve done that too. 😂😅 Thanks, Bart!
Dr. Ehrman,
I applaud and agree with your logical analyses of the Bible. A perfect God could produce a perfect Bible, but as you’ve proven it is far from perfect!
Have you considered some parts of the Bible may be demon-inspired lies, which God allows and is using those lies to test us?
Job’s faith was tested, unknowingly, by 1. Great losses of property/family, 2. Physical suffering, and 3. The forgotten test of men lying to Job about God and His ways, Job 42:7. Their Satan-inspired lies are mixed with praises of God to disguise their lies. Today, we’re still tested in these same three ways.
Could the Bible be a mixture of lies and truths to test our faith and trust in God? Many have lost faith because they see the contradictions in the Bible, blaming God for these errors. Job refuted Satan’s lies, and we can too. I think it’s time we separate the weeds (lies), planted by His enemy, from the wheat (truth) sown in our Scriptures, including the Quran.
John P. Hageman, MS, CHP
Author of: Uniting Humanity Through Our Scriptures Hidden Secrets,
Putting Our Religious Differences on Trial
Email: [email protected]
The Book’s Website: https://johnphageman.com/
Since I’m an atheist I don’t believe in God and, as a result, I don’t believe in other supernatural powers either. So I don’t think there are evil forces (demons) that authored the bible (or did / do anything else)
I was reading about Thomas Huxley’s severe depression in 1884 that forced him into retirement. The Eclipse of Darwinism started in 1875. He had abandoned his Christian identity and coined the word “AGNOSTIC” to describe his atheism. The exciting early years (1860-1870) were replaced as fellow naturalists attacked Darwinism. I wondered about the cause of his severe depression. Did he think that he gambled and lost? Did he think that he had burned the bridge behind him? He wrote to his sister about the “sadness of doubting the Creation”. Like Darwin, Huxley was required to read Paley’s “Natural Theology” at the university. Huxley died in 1895 before Mendel’s research emerged in 1900. R.I.P. Thomas Huxley.
Just checking in—was it your dad who was in the hospital, or has everything going on in the world been weighing on you?
I just wanted to say thank you, Dr. Ehrman. I usually don’t pray—only when I’m really hurting inside. I don’t know how I found your work, but I’m really glad I did. You inspired me to start digging for the truth, and somewhere along the way I realized that the desire to search for it had been inside me all along.
As a believer, I truly think you’ve done your part. I believe God loves you, too. Please don’t ever forget how much you’re appreciated.
You’ve done your part, if that’s how you feel, let it be brother. I would say it would be a dream seeing you teach good news, but you already do. ❤️🫡🙏🌎
THanks Joseph.
Absolutely! I love you like a brother I would do anything for you. Can you keep a secret lol jk ? Why did Jesus talk like that? Tell me the truth Bart, he’s still here? Lol just kidding
Have you ever thought about adding stickers or GIFs to your blog comments, kind of like TikTok? I think that would be a really fun feature and make the comment section even more engaging. It’s probably expensive to add, though—I honestly have no idea.
Interesting idea.
To claim Judaism only understood “God’s son” in a functional sense is too simplistic. While Israel/kings/Moses/angels are called sons representationally, Second Temple Judaism had developed categories for exalted heavenly figures who shared God’s authority/glory/judgment. 11QMelchizedek applies Isaiah’s language about Yahweh to Melchizedek. The Son-of-Man in 1Enoch, Philo’s Logos, other intermediary figures show Jewish theology was more diverse than simple “representative-vs.-God”.
Also, Mark portrays Jesus concealing His identity (Mk.4:11). If Jesus deliberately progressively revealed himself to insiders/concealed identity from outsiders, then Mark’s restraint cannot be used as evidence that Jesus never made such claims.
Still, in Mark 2, Jesus doesn’t merely forgive; He self-identifies as the Son-of-Man who has authority to forgive.
In the Parable of Tenants (Mk12), Jesus distinguishes Himself from previous messengers. The Son is qualitatively different. The owner sends Him last because He uniquely shares the Father’s identity&authority.
Earliest Christian writings point the same direction. Paul applies OT texts about Yahweh directly to Jesus(Rom.10:13/Joel2:32) and incorporates Jesus into Shema(1Cor.8:6).
Whether one accepts these claims historically is another question, but it’s historically unsustainable to argue Judaism lacked conceptual categories for exalted divine figures, that these ideas appear only in John, or Mark’s restraint proves Jesus never made them.
I remember reading this in what I think was the first or second book I read by you and immediately and deeply identified. It’s the sadness in the eyes when you tell someone that you just can’t get past something that they deeply believe in and more importantly, dedicate their life to by really acting on it. Not the “believers” say you’re going to hell and that speed off to the Sunday buffet with the Jesus Rules bumper sticker. It’s really hard when that someone is a mentor, teacher or parent and not someone we are just debating with or posting on the internet with sometimes. I don’t know if the tears welling up are their worry or their own self doubt. I just end with “faith is not certainty” and keep on the study and journey. I often wonder how you deal with it when other folks view it as a friendship deal breaker.
I believe that the Bible is human book with respect to humans penning the words. But, it’s hard for me to accept that it wasn’t divinely inspired.
Jesus had said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but by me” (John 14:6).
how could I love Jesus with all my heart- say 20 years ago. I didn’t understand Jesus at all, who was entire God & wholly man. Then I feared and obeyed the Father & Creator and understood so to speak the Holy Spirit or “& the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.”
When I was living in Bridgewater township, NJ on Sunday my sister & I went to a church [without parents] that believed in the Holy Cow.
As a historian, who signed the New Covenant as in NT. When JESUS condemned the whole world. The OT according to my understanding he condemned the Jews [Jewish existentialism]