Here I give a post from 2015, some three years after it was announced that we now have a first-century fragmentary  copy of Mark.  At this point we still had not SEEN the manuscript and no one would give us any reliable information about it.  And I began to wonder, how much difference would it make in how we understand things, assuming it really was a first-century fragment.  Here are my musings at the time.

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Assuming, as it is *relatively*, but not absolutely probable that we should, that the fragment in question is simply of a few verses in the middle of Mark’s Gospel that do not vary significantly from what we already have, I’m still obsessing with the question of why evangelical scholars would be so bound and determined to get their hands on it.   I’ll deal with that question first.

It may not be obvious why it is a puzzle.  Here is why.

As a rule (a rule to which I do not know a single exception), evangelical scholars of the New Testament who are either slightly or deeply knowledgeable about the manuscript tradition of the NT (the thousands of manuscripts that survive and the hundreds of thousands of variants that they contain), are absolutely convinced – or at least they claim they are – that in virtually every single instance of importance as well as in almost every instance that is *not* particularly important, that is, in nearly every instance whatsoever, we already can rest assured that we have the “original” text of the New Testament – that is, the text of the writings of the New Testament as they were originally written by their original authors.  [That, by the way, is the single longest sentence I have ever written in my life.]

If you don’t think that’s what evangelical scholars think, simply listen to any of my debates on the matter with one of their leading spokespersons, Dan Wallace.  They are available on Youtube.  In these debates Dan insists repeatedly that we are far, far, far, far better informed about the text of the NT than of any other ancient writing (a point that I myself have made roughly seventy- nine zillion times), and that among the significant differences not a single one affects any major Christian doctrine, and that we can wholeheartedly trust that we have the text as produced by the original authors (for him, the divinely inspired authors).   And if you don’t want to take simply his word for it, read any of the many responses to my book Misquoting Jesus by conservative evangelicals.  There were three entire books written against it, showing that I didn’t know what I was talking about, or at least that I was seriously misleading in what I had to say; that is not to mention scores of comments in books and articles about the book.  Every one of these evangelical scholars appears to be completely confident that you too can be completely confident that with complete confidence we can be confident that we have the original New Testament.  We have so many manuscripts!!  They are so early!!  And so on.My sense is that evangelical scholars who claim that we have the original text already realize that we simply don’t know if that’s the case or not.  And so they DESPERATELY want evidence for what they are telling everyone. 

And so here is my puzzle.   If we already KNOW that we have the original text of the New Testament, that new discoveries are not going to change what we already know about this original, that our evidence is already fully sufficient to establish this original – if all that is true, WHY DOES IT MATTER IF NEW MANUSCRIPTS ARE DISCOVERED???   Why do you need to destroy other antiquities to get your paws on them?  What will a first century copy of Mark – even if it were *more* than a few verses – tell you that you don’t already know?  Why are you so UNBELIEVABLY EAGER to get hold of older manuscripts, if what you continually insist about having the original text is true?  And you believe it’s true?

So, here’s the reality that explains the puzzle.   My sense is that evangelical scholars who claim that we have the original text already realize that we simply don’t know if that’s the case or not.  And so they DESPERATELY want evidence for what they are telling everyone.   And they think that if they can get hold of a first-century copy of Mark – even if it’s a scrap the size of a credit card – then they will have PROOF!!!   See!  We have a first century copy!  HA!!! Take *that*, you skeptics…..

Of course, as I’ve pointed out, unless this first century copy happens to be the original (!), it’s not going to give them the evidence that they want, unless it’s a rather full copy (say, a chapter or more) that does not have a single difference from our currently reconstructed Mark.  That would be significant.  That would be good.  That would be absolutely great!  If that’s what they have, we’re all extremely eager for it.  But if in fact it’s a fragment with a few verses, or possibly a couple of fragments with a few verses, then it’s hard to see how it will give either them or their opponents any solid evidence.  If the fragment is just like the Mark we have now, it will give us evidence that what we think is the oldest form of the text probably is the oldest form of the text. (Since we already think this, the discovery won’t change anything).  If it is pretty much like the Mark we now have, it will show that scribes sometimes changed things – which is also what we already think.  If it is completely unlike the Mark we have now, they will say (or would have said) that it’s from a different Gospel, not Mark.

On the other hand – here are my scenarios — there are a couple of things the fragment could be that would be virtual game changers.

  • If it is the very beginning of the Gospel, and it has a Gospel title on it (“According to Mark”), and it can be dated to the end of the first or the early second century, that would be HUGE!   Otherwise, we don’t have solid evidence that the Gospel (our Gospel of Mark) was called Mark until the end of the second century.
  • Or if it has the end of the Gospel of Mark and shows that 16:8 was followed by the longer ending in which Jesus actually appears to his disciples after his resurrection (the ending not found in what are now our oldest and best manuscripts, and that is considered to be a later addition by most scholars), that too would be huge.

So let’s hope the fragment gives us something of that order.  Otherwise, our evangelical friends are simply going to use it to “prove” something they already believe when in fact it won’t prove anything of the sort, since whether it is just like our current Mark or a bit different from our current Mark or really different from our current Mark – we already *think* there were manuscripts like that (like each option) in the first century.  So discovering one won’t tell us anything new.

Despite all that, I myself am OH SO EAGER to see it.  It would be really exciting for NT scholars.  Even if turns out  NOT to be front page news….

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2024-07-23T14:09:22-04:00July 23rd, 2024|Public Forum|

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12 Comments

  1. line45030 July 23, 2024 at 8:08 am

    Hello Bart, I wanted to know your opinion on Mark 14:62. The high priest was probably not alive by 70 AD, but Mark did not exclude this “prophecy.” Could this be an argument for an earlier dating of the Gospel, since there is nothing surprising in the prediction of the destruction of Jerusalem, as it is written in Daniel as the “abomination of desolation”?

    • BDEhrman July 24, 2024 at 4:29 pm

      I’d say it’s an argument that would need to be considered, yes, as part of a very large mix.

  2. Bennett July 23, 2024 at 8:09 am

    Actually, what they really want to see is a copy of Mark that can be dated to before 70 CE, or really to the late 30s or 40s. They want proof that it was written by an eyewitness. From what I understand about the methods of dating manuscripts, that is probably not even possible to pin down, given the 50 year window that you have mentioned. Would you agree?

    • BDEhrman July 24, 2024 at 4:30 pm

      Yup. Unless the copyists dated it, they’re not gonna get one they can claim is from, say, 34 CE.

  3. EricBrown July 23, 2024 at 3:03 pm

    Especially if the title is actually “Gospel According to Bob”

  4. stevenpounders July 26, 2024 at 2:41 pm

    How can we be “far better informed about the text of the NT than of any other ancient writing”, when, for some rare ancient writings, we actually have the originals?

    You said that you have made this point as well as Dan Wallace. And here is an example from another of your posts: “it is absolutely true that the New Testament is far better attested than other ancient writings” (https://ehrmanblog.org/the-text-of-the-new-testament-are-the-textual-traditions-of-other-ancient-works-relevant/)

    How can this be true when we have (for example) the papyri discovered at Wadi al-Jarf, including the joural of Merer, which seems to be in the hand of Merer himself? We also have many ancient documents that are clearly originals simply by virtue of the fact that they are lists, trade records, and other items that noone at the time would have been interested in copying. Aren’t original writings far better attested than writings for which we only have copies?

    • BDEhrman July 28, 2024 at 9:56 am

      I thikn we’re talking about literary texts.

      • stevenpounders July 29, 2024 at 2:42 pm

        With the diversity of texts in the Bible (including short letters by Paul) what separates a “literary” text from any other sort of text?

        And wouldn’t many of the funerary texts found in the coffins of the pharoahs count as literary texts?

        You can’t get much better attestation than being sealed in a tomb for thousands of years. It just seems that statements like “the New Testament is far better attested than other ancient writings” can only be “true” if you add lots of caveats about what counts as “ancient writing” and only define attestation as number-of-copies.

        • BDEhrman August 3, 2024 at 12:16 pm

          Its usually a generic distinction which can have fuzzy lines. But epistles that are more like essays, like Paul’s letters, not to mention, Gospels, Acts, and apocalypses are seen as having stylistic and thematic concernst that differ from works considered “documentary,” such as tax receipts, sales receipts, land deeds, marriage certificates, and the like.

      • stevenpounders July 29, 2024 at 3:01 pm

        The Pyramid Texts dating to over four thousand years ago are certainly literary. Like other religious texts they include narratives and poetry involving the gods and the deceased; and, since they are often addressed specifically to the deceased person in the tomb – they are contemporary with tomb and authentic to the religious leaders creating the writing in the tomb at that time. How can you get more attestation than a sealed tomb incorporating writings for and about the person in the tomb?

  5. sLiu July 31, 2024 at 4:09 pm

    this is a fitting blog to this YouTube presentation that was in my subscriptions this morning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzyHjrC9bgU

    he addresses you by name several times. I thought of what I thought before my 40s. & then the students interviewed after your debates over a decade ago.

    his presentation left many gaps. I didn’t attack that historically racist institution.

    but they have to do a better job especially if they address you several times.

    Let’›s have a rumble!

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