That’s the KEY question I address in my book Jesus Interrupted (2010). Here is an excerpt from the Intro where I press it head on :
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One of the most amazing and perplexing features of mainstream Christianity is that seminarians who learn the historical-critical method in their Bible classes appear to forget all about it when it comes time for them to be pastors. They are taught critical approaches to Scripture, they learn about the discrepancies and contradictions, they discover all sorts of historical errors and mistakes, they come to realize that it is difficult to know whether Moses existed or what Jesus actually said and did, they find that there are other books that were at one time considered canonical but that ultimately did not become part of Scripture (for example, other Gospels and Apocalypses), they come to recognize that a good number of the books of the Bible are pseudonymous (for example, written in the name of an apostle by someone else), that in fact we don’t have the original copies of any of the biblical books but only copies made centuries later, all of which have been altered. They learn all this, and yet when they enter church ministry they appear to put it back on the shelf. For reasons I will explore in the conclusion, pastors are, as a rule, reluctant to teach what they learned about the Bible in seminary. 2
I vividly recall the first time I came to realize this concretely. I had just started teaching at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and was still a Christian. The pastor of a Presbyterian church in North Carolina asked me to do a four-week series on “the historical Jesus.” So I did. In my lectures I talked about why historians have problems using the Gospels as historical sources, in view of their discrepancies and the fact that they were written decades after the life of Jesus by unknown authors who had inherited their accounts about him from the highly malleable oral tradition. I also talked about how scholars have devised methods for reconstructing what probably happened in the life of Jesus, and ended the series by laying out what we can actually know about him. There was nothing at all novel in what I discussed—it was standard scholarly material, the kind of thing that has been taught in seminaries for over fifty years. I learned all this material while I was at Princeton Seminary myself.
Afterward a dear elderly lady came up to me and asked me in frustration, “Why have I never heard this before?” She was not distressed at what I had said; she was distressed that her pastor had never said it. I remember looking across the fellowship hall to the pastor, who was talking to a couple of other parishioners, and wondering the same thing myself: Why had he never told her? He, too, had gone to Princeton Theological Seminary, he too had learned all these things; he taught adult education classes at this church and had been doing so for more than five years. Why had he not told his parishioners what he knew about the Bible and the historical Jesus? Surely they deserved to hear. Was it because he didn’t think they were “ready” for it—a patronizing attitude that is disturbingly common? Was he afraid to “make waves”? Was he afraid that historical information might destroy the faith of his congregation? Was he afraid that church leaders might not take kindly to the dissemination of such knowledge? Did church leaders actually put pressure on him to stick to the devotional meaning of the Bible in his preaching and teaching? Was he concerned about job security? I never found out.
I am not saying that churches should be mini-universities where pastors function as professors from the pulpit. But surely the ministry involves more than preaching the “good news” (however that is understood) every week. It also involves teaching. Most churches have adult education classes. Why aren’t adults being educated? My experience in this particular church is not an isolated case.
Every year I teach hundreds of students in my “Introduction to the New Testament” course at Chapel Hill. Normally there are three hundred to three hundred fifty students in the class. I teach the class, of course, not from a confessional or devotional point of view—the view that most of these students, having been raised in the church, are accustomed to hearing—but from a historical-critical point of view. The information and perspectives I present in the class are nothing radical. They are the views found among critical scholars who approach the Bible historically—whether the scholars themselves are believers or unbelievers, Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, agnostic, or whatever else. They are the views I learned in seminary and the views that are taught at divinity schools and universities throughout the country. But they are views that my students have never heard before, even though most of these students have spent a good deal of their lives in Sunday School and church.
My students have a range of reactions to these views. Many of my more conservative students are like me at that age—certain of the Bible’s absolute truthfulness and wary of anyone who might call it into question. Some of these students refuse to listen—it is almost as if they cover their ears and hum loudly so they don’t have to hear anything that might cause them to doubt their cherished beliefs about the Bible. Others are eager to break away from the confines of the church and religion entirely, devouring the information I give as if it provides a license to disbelieve.
I personally don’t think either reaction—the radical rejection or the all-too-eager embrace of the new perspective on the Bible—is ideal. What I prefer are students who carefully study the material, consider it thoughtfully, question some of its (and their own) assumptions and conclusions, reflect on how it might affect the way they look at the Bible and the Christian religion on which they were raised, and cautiously consider how it might affect them personally. One of my main goals, of course, is to get them to learn the material for the course. It is, after all, historical information about a historical religion and a historically based set of documents. The class is not meant to be a theological exercise to strengthen or weaken one’s faith. But since the documents we consider are, for many students, documents of faith, inevitably the historical-critical method we use in class has some implications for faith. And another ultimate objective that I have—as should every university professor—is to get students to think.
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“Why have I never heard this before?”
And he said to them, “Is a lamp brought in to be put under a basket, or under a bed, and not on a stand? For nothing is hidden except to be made manifest; nor is anything secret except to come to light. If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear”.
(Mark 4:21-25)
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
(John 1:5)
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
(2 Cor 11:14)
The reason is very simple : If the Bible is the word of God than every word, every sentence, every quote, every verse, every story is telling the Godly Truth. If you question one of those than the conclusion must be that The Bible as such is not the word of God. And that, a Pastor cannot confirm in a Church who is funded on that dogma
Yes, that’s true. But most mainline churches do not have that fundamentalist understanding of the bible.
I’m surprised you call that fundamentalist. Is the Pope a fundamentalist in your view ?
I’m not sure what his actual view of the Bible is.
I put my question another way around do you have knowledge of any high rank catholic or theologe who puts in doubt that the Bible is not the word of God or inspired by the Holy Spirit ?
Nope. But that doesn’t mean they think it was inerrant. When I went to Presbyterian seminary, virtually everyone on the faculty would have said the Bible is the word of God, and none of them thought it was without error. The idea that they are the same thing is simply something fundamentalist protestants have insisted on so strenously that everyone seems to think it’s true, if inspired therefore inerrant.
… puts in doubt that the Bible is the word of God or is inspired by the Holy Spirit ?
If Preachers spouted what they know would go against their cash flow- their idolizing positive cash flow > God!
Yes. But it is not the word of God. It may contain the word from God. It is written and interpreted by man. It’s a messy world full of ambiguity. Religion is no different. As Christian’s if we don’t go beyond the teachings of Jesus, which emanated from the Torah and Jewish wisdom literature, we would have a reliable source (authentic Torah) and less ambiguity.
The problem i personally have with “thinking for myself” on biblical matters, is that a lot of it, to be properly done requires lots of knowledge, which i don’t possess and i don’t think i will ever. That’s one main reason i subscribed to your blog professor Ehrman.
Im really trying hard to understand if the Bible is a narrative made up by men that knew perfectly well God doesn’t exist, or instead the exact opposite, namely that its author (at least for its content )is a superior being that created us.
I struggle to come to a solid conclusion. From your position of eminent scholar, prof Ehrman, would you say that the knowledge of the bible available to present day allows both positions to coexist equally? Or is there enough data that supports one more than the other?
I shouldn’t think those are the pnly two choices. The biblical authors certainly believed God existed, but that doesn’t mean that there is a God are authored their books.
I read on your site that if you have a question, one of the best is to put a (brief) question in a Comment on any post in the blog, regardless of the topic. So here is my question. Can you comment on the significance of Akeptous Inscription “The god-loving Akeptous has offered the table to God Jesus Christ as a memorial.” Thank you!
It was found in a third-century church in Megiddo (part of a mosaic I think). There are questions about whether the building was purpose built as a church or was a converted structure. So far as I know, the issuehasn’t been decided. It is apparently a dedicatory inscription indicating that a member of teh congregation had donated the funds for a table (for the eucharist?), or given the table itself.
charrua… could you amplify your, And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
(2 Cor 11:14)? I don’t want to make a false assumption.
Thanks,
I’m just celebrating the age of the “wise according to worldly standards” that Paul feared so much (1 Cor 1:19-26).
Take a look at how a “wise, discerning, debater of this age” brings light upon darkness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVUQAVQS1-U
His light is so powerful that Paul’s “weapons to take every thought captive to obey Christ” are useless (2 Cor 10:4-6).
Is this the powerful light that the North Carolina pastor also fears?
A light that could awaken his sheep from a two-thousand-year night.
Thanks for the link to the interesting debate — but overly argumentative (especially by Justin Bass) on what each other is saying or trying to say. Theology and History are difficult debate partners.
OFF TOPIC: In today’s episode of Misquoting Jesus you say that some scholars are leaning toward dating Acts to 120CE. Who do they think wrote it?
There’s no way to know. For that matter, there’s no way to know who wrote it if it was written much ealrier. The author is anonymous and the attribution to Luke doesn’t come until the end of the second century.
I propose it is as old as the dichotomy between faith and reason. If anyone that can present a compelling case how embracing the historical Jesus (among the faithful referred to as Christ) do anything other than successfully challenge ones belief in the Christ I’ve yet to hear it. Does it make any sense to suggest a course of study that will nothing more that destroy the bond that unites a community is nothing more than the epitome of counter intuitive?
Yes, if the church is fundamentalist and holds a fundamentalist view of the Bible. but mainline churches as a whole revere the Bible without insisting it can have no mistakes. At least the leadership of the churches have that view.
I found your reply disturbing but couldn’t quite put my finger why. Then it came to me, embracing a historical Jesus, as I’m assuming you suggest “mainline Christianity” does is also a denial of the divine nature of the Christ. I’m not commenting on the value of this change but if true could be a compelling reason for the decline of participation among the “faithful” over the last several decades. In other words if they don’t believe it they certainly couldn’t do a good job preaching it.
I’m not quite sure what you mean. I know tons of people interested in knowing about the historical Jesus — including tons of scholars — who believe Christ is divine. Most of my best friends who are scholars in the field are in that camp. (In fact, I can’t think of any who aren’t!)
I’m far from being a scholar, but I believe what the OP was trying to explain is that perhaps the reason for the sharp decline in church attendance/Christian faith is the fact that many no longer believe in Jesus as divine which causes a conflict since they are expected to preach this to non-believers in order to save them. They are left with the option to remain a member of a church and ‘pretend’ to believe what it is preaching or to leave.
Hello, I have kind of a big question:
Are there any biblical roots to the “Sinner’s Prayer” involving asking Jesus into one’s heart?
What happens if the prayer gets mixed up for some reason?
The prayer is certainly not found in the Bible, and nowhere at all does the Bible talk about “asking Jesus into your heart.” It’s a modern evangelical concept. (Based — at least so I learned as an evangelical — on Revelation 3:20, where the resurrected Jesus says “Behold, I stand at the door and knock; anyone who opens the door I will come in to them and will sup with them and they with me”)
Dr. Ehrman. Please excuse that this is completely off topic, (but Obi-Wan you’re my only hope). I am writing a blog about how Christians defend biblical inerrancy and I came across an on-line article with this quote.
“You have searched the Scriptures, which are true and given by the Holy Spirit. You know that nothing unrighteous or counterfeit is written in them.” —Clement of Rome, letter to the Corinthians, first century
Two questions: Was there really a Pope in the first century? What kind of “scripture” could he possibly be referring to in the last decade of the first century?
This is found in 1 Clement 45.2. It is a letter from around 95 CE or so, written by the Christians in Rome to the Christians in Corinth; presumably *someone* in the Roman church wrote it, but the author of the book never identifies himself. Eventually it came to be attributed to a figure named Clement, who in tradition came to be thought of as either the second or the third bishop of Rome (depending on which tradition you read); in some later traditions still he was said to have been ordained to be bishop by Peter. As bishop of Rome, later traditions would number him as one of the first “popes.” The reality is that we don’t have any solid evidence that there even was a single leader of the church of Rome at the time, let alone a “pope.” Throughout the letter the author quotes “Scripture,” and in doing so he refers to the Old Testament — even in this very paragraph. There was not a New Testament yet. Also, the author of the book is certainly claiming that the OT is righeous and true, but he does not use the language of inerrancy. Many millions of Christians have and do consider it “true” without claiming there’s not a single mistake in it.
Dr. Ehrman, I’ve heard and read this lecture several times. It deserves repeating, especially today.
Pastors of today’s myriad evangelical faith congregations are subject to being fired because they do not use the Bible as a means to sermonize on Trump as for example the new King Cyrus, or that he will expedite eschatology to speed up the return of Christ.
It deeply disturbs me as to why so many clowns like Greg Locke are spewing hatred, fear, misogyny, homophobia and racism, in what can truly be labeled Christo Fascism of a kind not seen since the era of Nazi Germany.
I feel we are far beyond the issue of Bible literacy vs. reality and are now in an area I hope you as other have will speak more frequently about.
I wonder the same thing. My religious upbringing was the equivalent of horse blinders. Before I left for college, I was warned of “false doctrine” that would try to lure me from “absolute” truths like the inerrancy of the Bible. It felt like the “just say no” speech they give you in DARE when you’re 11-12 years old.
I wish that my pastors would have actually discussed the content itself, since it’s probably an easier pill to swallow to hear that perspective from a pastor who you know well versus the (as they would’ve put it) “Bart Ehrmans” of the world.
I grew up in the United Church of Christ, so in my experience, there was a lot of talk about critical scholarship. Admittedly, it wasn’t using your favorite scholars—lots of Marcus Borg and John Dominic Crossan 🙂 But there was discussion of real scholarship. Not denying what you are saying or the larger pattern, just reporting my experience.
Oh yeah, the UCC is often a big exception, known as one of the most “liberal” and “open” of the Protestant churches. When I was a Xn we used to call it one step above Unitarianism! Maybe that wasn’t fair. The ones I’ve gone to I’ve enjoyed very much.
MojoMan: Have you heard of pastors who are being chastised for not preaching that Biden and Harris are the anti-Christ and that we are presently living in what can be likened to a form of anti-Christian Fascism not seen since the era of NAZI Germany? I trust that Dr. Ehrman will allow me, a new platinum member, the chance to post my comment which responds to this politico-religio comment. In that regard I trust my comment will not have to wait days to be moderated. Shalom.
Sorry, most comment have to wait a few days just because I can’t get to them everyday. As to posts, yes, I do try to keep us away from politics since everyone is welcome here, regardless of political persuasion.
I’m 72, been a deacon, gone from invested believer to agnostic. What I’ve come to think is this: for faith to be an effective tool for a personal world view, most people have to set aside true critical thinking. Most people go to church for reassurance that God is in control, is a power that promotes good, and that He will make sure everything turns out all right in the afterlife for the faithful. If you polled a congregation whether they seek faith or knowledge in their church, I wonder what the answer would be. I think a lot of the faithful would rather hear, “This is the truth” rather than, “This is what we choose to believe.” A close friend of mine who is very traditionally religious uses his faith to deal with the burden of his on-going care for a severely disabled 40+ year-old child. Often in conversations, he will cite a Biblical passage to make a point. I truly hesitate to counter with what I know about the historical veracity of the passage, because frankly, I don’t want to gift him with uncertainty. I suppose that is condescending in some ways.
I guess it is because theology is not based in “historical criticism” so some (or all) of the postulates of theologies have to be reconsidered in some way or another. Is not clear the path from historical method to theology which should be re-thinked in light of the former and with some faith based thinking and praxis. As the first followers of Jesus made their own theological reflection we should do the same for our times with the new knowledge.
jebib: Let me inquire: If a religion can be likened to a form of medicine (“religion is the opiate of the people”) are you saying it’s illogical (counter intuitive) for those who have partaken of it to examine its ingredients or have others who are experts (like Bart) teach us what’s really in it? In other words, what is absurd for those of us who have taken a dose to examine its ingredients closely for perhaps the first time to learn, for example, that the four gospels (which are key ingredients) are so replete with inconsistencies, incongruities, disparities, contradictions and irreconcilable differences they not only stand impeached they also reveal they can in no way, shape or form be the inspired, inerrant and infallible words of some Omnipotent, Supreme Being called God as the prescribers of this medicine (preachers) proclaimed. I took a dose long ago but discovered I had been duped, deceived and hoodwinked. But I was glad to learn the truth which set me free from error and allowed me to be emancipated from what you call that community and that bond which united me with those living a life in what I call a religious illusion.
I apologize for asking a question that I’m sure has been asked before: What curriculum materials would be useful in a mainline church for teaching about the historical-critical method and the implications for how we should approach and apply the Bible? Your books, Dr. Ehrman, along with Marcus Borg’s, etc., come to mind. Are there small group resources that could be used over a 6 to 12 week course that you could recommend?
I don’t know of anything, but I bet there are things out there! Does anyone else on the blog know?
Actually your answer addresses my wondering about the same question, i.e. doesn’t one or more lay books cover the historical-critical method and its implications. My pondering has led me to a reasonable sequence or protocol that jmckinney could use:
First, use what is known about gospel authors. They wrote in Greek. They knew some Hebrew and Aramaic, hence phrases exist that require knowing these. They wrote after Paul otherwise Paul would have used their material. Authors of Matthew and Luke borrowed huge amounts from Mark. Etc.
Second, use the evident sequences in the gospels. Jesus is proclaimed as having certain characteristics, then he demonstrates these through miracles, ergo did any miracles happen? There is a method to the writing.
Third, use the anomalies and inferences. Geographically no lake where the pigs were to drown, ergo authors did not know geography of those areas very well. Cana water to wine miracle is symbolic of old Judaism vs Jesus’ new message. No records of a Roman decreed census. Etc.
Hope this helps.
Evidently the NT authors did believe that God existed and were more than likely not aware of the early history of God and the stories of the Ugaritic texts, which consists of El and his seventy sons. For the Jews living in first century Judea, God was not a mythical Levantine deity; he was a true living god just like devotees believe today. It’s amazing the impact and mental grip that a late Bronze Age mythical deity has on society today.
Coming from a 3rd generation son of a preacher, the issue resides in the weakness of the weakest link – to protect them. Elders/Leadership are installed by the members of the sect/congregation. So long as truth is not treasured above all misconceptions, there may be no hope that people will be enabled to realize God gave them a brain to use for themselves. Just take the “Fallen Man” doctrine that presumes the sin of Adam is inherited by all his offspring. Didn’t Elohim teach otherwise? Look at the Stone Edition of Genesis. God told Cain, after the “Fall”; Why is your countenance downcast? Surely, if you improve yourself, you will be forgiven. Sin rests at the door, it’s desire is towards you, yet you can conquer it!” Same thing told in Isaiah 1 in “Come let us reason together” – to abandon evil and learn to do good! Same in Ezekiel 18. Also same thing in the Aramaic English NT – if one just does some touchup with the alterations. Rome and Judaism are both guilty of altering the words of God and Jesus.
Isn’t it possible to get at least a few answers to this question from clergy themselves? There may be many reasons, but do we have any available to add to this post? Why didn’t Dr. Ehrman ask the pastor of the dear old lady about this? Maybe the pastor would have had an answer for her. I hope she asked him and possibly made him consider a new way of leading his congregation.
Why don’t some of the mainstream more liberal churches teach this way, at least in adult Sunday School. I can understand wanting the weekly service to be for a general audience. Reminding people to love one another is challenging enough.
Good questions. I’ve certainly talked to lots of pastors about this, but don’t recall if I talked to that fellow or not. My guess is that whether it’s possible to get answers from clergy depends completely on which clergy person you ask.
Hi, Bart. This is an intriguing post. Since it’s excerpted from the Introduction to Jesus, Interrupted, presumably your book provides answers to the question? Possibly with comment from pastors of your acquaintance? (I just put a hold on it at the local library. 😉)
I suspect part of the answer is likely to be that only a small percentage of most mainline congregations are engaged with the Bible to any significant extent. So when one considers how most of a mainline congregation is involved with church life, biblical scholarship simply isn’t that relevant to them. I don’t mean this as criticism, because the church brings people together in community, one of its most important missions. And most churches strive to do good in the world, and honestly do a lot of good in the world.
For those of us who are fascinated with the Bible, and center our lives in it one way or another, it can be challenging to perceive the general level of disinterest in it, even in churches!
What percentage of a mainline Protestant church congregation would you estimate read the Bible regularly or with any significant level of engagement?
Fiske Miles
I suppose most mainline churches have some settings/occasions for Bible study (adult educatoin; reading groups; etc.); but my sense is that most of these settings are more focused on devotional issues than historical.
Well, I’m a Unitarian Universalist and Christians are thin on the ground at my church. Significantly outnumbered by atheists and half the congregation (at least) is agnostic.
However, a few years back I co-led a Bible study series there with another congregant (atheist) and the series drew significant participation from people wanting to know more about the history of the Bible and scholarly details about it. We covered Genesis to some extent. My Bible knowledge from a scholarship perspective is woefully short — expecting BSA participation to help on that front. The NINT 2024 was fantastic.
I attended service at a Methodist church for a few years, and participated in an adult Bible class, which was more I guess you would say devotional in its orientation. But, only a small percentage of the congregation participated in Bible classes. My sense is that many Christians relate to the Bible as a touchstone of their faith without seriously engaging with it. Even devotionally.
Church participation is on the wane, of course, which surely contributes to the reluctance of ministers to rattle their congregants with Biblical complications.
Fiske Miles
Most pastors in mainline denominations realize that their parishioners are more conservative than them theologically and less interested in history. So they skew their message to avoid a backlash, as well as a desire to give their members certainty rather than ambiguity in a difficult world.
Inspired, but not the word of God. I believe St Paul said that concerning the OT.
20 years ago, a teacher from Concordia in Shanghai explained that the books of the Bible was written by man.
” parishioners are more conservative”
because we don’t know any better. We don’t know the Bible as the pastors. So we hang on to the stricter rules [prudes]. For most of his preaching Warren Wiersbe was “condemning” Church leadership. Until once he was praising a church leader as he knew construction, alleviated much stain on the Sr Pastor Wiersbe.
thank you Dr Ehrman, this brings me back to when I was in undergrad, taught in Jr High that every denomination, or religion or everyone else were Cults or Atheists.
This brings me more current to the debates you had last decade & the reporter would ask some attendees of who won the debate & why. You smashed your fellow debater, but all the youthful answers were to the other.
that’s why I keep on quoting Wiersbe’s quotation of Paul definition of faith.
and now 10 years later what do I think and believe and live my life around?
Thanks!