I was looking through the archives of posts from many years ago and came across one that struck me as rather hilarious.   Why do devout Christians sometimes tell flat-out lies to support their truth-claims? Here’s what I said in the post:

 

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Sometimes it’s enough to make my blood boil.  Maybe someone can explain it to me.

If you were to interview the billions of occupants of this planet, you would find no group of people who declare themselves more committed to “truth” than  evangelical Christians.  Evangelical Christianity, historically, is about nothing other than the Truth.   Jesus himself said “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father except by me” (John 14:6); and “You shall know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free” (John 8:32).  The Christian faith, for these people, is all about finding the Truth that leads to eternal life.

So why do so many of their spokespersons simply tell lies?   Or at least propagate willful ignorance?  Those are the two choices: they either know what they’re saying is absolutely false or they don’t go to the bother of finding out, when the information is readily available to anyone who wants to take 38 seconds to look for it.

I say I don’t get it, but I do.  My books on forgery argue that in antiquity Christians did this because they thought that in some circumstances it was appropriate to disseminate false information in order to convert or convince people, to propagate a lie in order to promote the truth.

Possibly some modern spokespersons for the evangelical cause feel the same way?   In this post I will be talking about just one instance.  I know of many others….

I’ve been following the rather brilliant posts about the exposure of the culprit behind the nonsense of an alleged first-century copy of the Gospel of Mark, posts produced by our fellow blog member and occasional guest poster Brent Nongbri on his own blog.  One of the posts has drawn my ire.  Not against Brent, but against the subject of one of his posts.

It concerns the original director of the Green Collection (a private collection of ancient biblical antiquities, especially manuscripts, many of them on display now in the Bible Museum in Washington), Scott Carroll, who touts himself as a great expert on ancient manuscripts, even though it is not clear what his actual qualifications are, other than the fact that he has been employed by very wealthy persons to buy manuscripts (that’s not the same thing as being able to analyze them – a very technical skill that takes many years of training).  I say it’s not clear what is qualifications are because I can’t find a c.v. for him anywhere, nowhere that he actually indicates his training, other than that he’s bought a lot of manuscripts for very rich people.

Carroll is evidently the person who purchased the alleged blockbuster first-century copy of Mark (which actually — we now know with its publication — dates to the end of the second century or beginning of the third, and is simply a tiny scrap with parts of a few verses on it) for the Green Collection (financed by the Green family that runs the retail outlet Hobby Lobby).

Carroll is a hard-core evangelical who travels the world declaring that his manuscript purchases validate the “truth” of evangelical claims about the Bible (and hence, by implication, about their understanding of the Christian faith).     Two days ago I read one of Brent Nongbri’s blogs in which he provided an actual transcript of one of Scott Carroll’s talks, where he maligns me personally, by name, as a crazy liberal who now has been categorically disproved in his claims by the discoveries of ancient manuscripts.

But what he says about my “claims” are absolutely, demonstrably, incontrovertibly false.  Grotesquely false.  He either knows it and is lying through his teeth to convince his evangelical audiences (who evidently express their enthusiastic approval when he makes this comment), or he has willfully remained ignorant by not simply checking to see if what he claims I think, say, write, and teach is  in fact what I have thought, said, written, and taught.

I have never, ever thought, said, or written any such drivel.  I have *always* thought that Mark was the first Gospel written, and that it was produced sometime around the year 70 CE.  I used to think it was probably written slightly before the Jewish war, maybe 68-70 CE; I now think it was written slightly later, maybe 70-72 CE.  That’s the extent of my change.

Here is the transcript of the talk, taken from Brent’s post: Revisiting Some of Scott Carroll Comments in Light of the “First Century” Mark Purchase Agreement.  (I need to point out that Brent has record of Carroll saying the all this in public talks going back to 2012!)

Brent’s words:

There is an interesting comment in Carroll’s 2016 talk to the Koinonia Institute at about the 40 minute mark (and, once again, thanks to the resourceful David Bradnick for digging up this video):

“Let me add one more text from, uh, the gospels I don’t have a picture of, that should be published sometime this year. And you’ll hear about it, and when you do, you’ll remember, ‘Oh yes, uh, Scott Carroll mentioned it.’ There’s actually a, a fragment of the Gospel of Mark that’s been discovered that has been tentatively dated somewhere between 70 AD and like 110 AD. So Gospel of Mark, maybe dating as early as 70 AD. Um, this is outstanding because, uh, the more liberal scholars, uh, like Bart Ehrman from, uh, from the University of North Carolina, uh, has said that the, uh, Gospel of Mark was the last gospel written, and was probably written around 200.  So this will completely, uh, cause him to have to rework his chronologies. That’s what these liberal scholars do. They’ll take things that are early and date them late, and take things that are late and date them early and try to turn topsy-turvey the, um, our understanding of, of things. And so, he’s already crying foul that he’s not had time to, uh, see the manuscript at all, but it’s fortunately in the hands of conservative scholars who usually don’t get an opportunity to work with these things, who are in the process of preparing them for publication. So, uh, that is something to look for. That’ll be major–While these other things may not be international news, that’ll be major international news when that’s published. And so, you heard it here first, and you heard it well in advance of its publication.”

 

What can I say?   I have never, ever thought, said, or written any such drivel.  I have *always* thought that Mark was the first Gospel written, and that it was produced sometime around the year 70 CE.  I used to think it was probably written slightly before the Jewish war, maybe 68-70 CE; I now think it was written slightly later, maybe 70-72 CE.  That’s the extent of my change.

It would be very, very, easy to see that this is what I’ve always said.  It is in every book I have ever written about the Gospels and/or Jesus.  Among other things, it is in my textbook on the New Testament that first appeared in 1997 and has been in wide circulation ever since.   That would be, uh, 19 years before Carroll claims I said something completely and crazily different.

So why is he either lying or spreading willful ignorance?  Because it serves his purposes.  His evangelical audience relish the idea that now the Truth will show why these liberal biblical critics are flat-out wrong, why these opponents of truth will be shown up for what they really are.  That’s an important goal for people like Scott Carroll.  They are enthusiastic to spread slander and false information in support of their cause, willing to propagate easily discredited misinformation or to flat-out lie in service of their Truth.

The irony, of course, is that it is absolutely false that this papyrus dates to 70-100 CE.  Or that it has any effect at all on our understanding of Mark or the date of its production.

Why are people like this so afraid of simply being honest and fair, and having reasonable disagreements?

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2026-06-29T08:41:15-04:00July 7th, 2026|Public Forum|

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26 Comments

  1. Tjalling July 7, 2026 at 9:51 am

    The case against Carroll is airtight, nineteen years of published material said the opposite of what he claimed you’d said.

    What strikes me more is why it survived unchallenged for years. A claim that confirms what a room wants to hear doesn’t need checking to work. It only needs believing. Carroll spoke as a trusted authority, not as evidence; we rarely verify claims from people we already trust.

    You’re right that this is especially ugly in an evangelical frame. But it’s not uniquely evangelical: a scientist who lies in science’s name violates the very norms that give science its authority, and arguably does more damage, since the lie borrows the whole enterprise’s credibility. Every community has a truth-claim by which its own dishonesty becomes serious.

    Still, that symmetry doesn’t lighten this case. For a community staking everything on Christ himself as Truth, defending that claim with a lie isn’t one tribal failure among others; it uses God’s name to protect comfort, not to serve him. The higher the claim, the heavier the betrayal.

    Yes, the question is why a claim this easy to check survived, unexamined, in a room that says Truth is what matters most.

  2. fishician July 7, 2026 at 10:08 am

    This practice of lying to promote “the truth” is a real pet peeve of mine, and one of the (many) reasons I left the church. I heard stories told in sermons or classes as if true when I knew they were not. I heard our preacher announce to the congregation that we had reached our goal for a special contribution only to find out later we were well short. How can people supposedly committed to truth and led by God’s Spirit use lies and falsehood to support it? I wonder if any scholar has written a book on the subject: how does religion affect one’s ability to perceive and handle the truth? I’d read that!

  3. GeoffClifton July 7, 2026 at 2:20 pm

    An off topic question, please Dr Ehrman. I was listening to your MJ podcast and heard you say (in answer to a question) that Jesus never spoke the words of Institution (of the Eucharist) at the Last Supper and that they were made up by his later followers. This intrigued me as, even a very, very liberal Christian like myself, tends to take it for granted that Jesus did say ‘this is my body etc ..’ Time constraints meant that you couldn’t elaborate but I would be interested to hear the evidence for it, particularly as Paul claims that Jesus said those words, in 1 Corinthians 11:23 ff, which was possibly written only 20 years after the event. My Bible study companions would be pretty shocked to learn this as the Eucharist is the most important aspect of their Christianity. Thank you, Dr Ehrman.

    • BDEhrman July 8, 2026 at 9:10 am

      I’m not sure I sated it as a definitive fact, but maybe I did. I certainly don’t think that Jesus indicted to his disciples in advance that he was going to be crucified for the sins of others. That’s a later Christian reflection of what he said based on their own beliefs. In my view Jesus was anticipaiting the coming kingdom of God and his own anointing to rule it as the messiah, not his sacrificial detah.

  4. nanuninu July 7, 2026 at 3:10 pm

    If you want to know more about liars and why they lie, read my book titled, Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by me, Hal Yanking.

    • SteveHouseworth July 10, 2026 at 12:02 pm

      So you are Al Franken? I read the book shortly after publication.

  5. R_Gerl July 8, 2026 at 4:08 am

    Thinking about these two most recent blogs got me wondering about how the core nature of Christianity got centered around belief(s). Jesus and his followers originally taught that morality was what is important to prepare for the coming imminent apocalypse (not theological beliefs). That would still be true even after the Jerusalem church put forward the idea of the atonement. That is, just living morally gets people the benefit of the atonement, that is salvation, not theological beliefs. But it was later changed to the idea that the benefits of the atonement, i.e. salvation, are attained through belief(s).

    Why do you think this change happened? What are the reasons for it?

    • BDEhrman July 9, 2026 at 6:06 am

      My sense is that as soon as the followers of Jesus came to believe in atonement, they thought that it was the way of salvation (rather than being a moral person). That is that they flipped Jesus’ teachings. The reason is that if being a good person was sufficient, then no atonement would have been needed. They would not have denied that it was important to be a good person, since believing in jesus meant doing what he instructed. But they shift to the NEED for atonement I think must have happened right off the bat.

      • R_Gerl July 9, 2026 at 2:42 pm

        Yes, the idea behind the atonement is that it is the way to salvation — instead of morality. But the crucial question is, what must people do to get that atonement? What I was saying is that, even though being moral by itself is insufficient to get salvation, being moral could easily be sufficient to get the Jesus created atonement bestowed on them from Yahweh. Instead, Christendom claimed that having the right belief(s) is necessary to get the Jesus created atonement bestowed on them (from Yahweh).

        So, my question was, and is, why?

        Let me repeat the question: Christendom made belief(s) the venue to get the atonement bestowed on them instead of something else (like repentance, good deeds, morality, etc.). Why?

        • BDEhrman July 11, 2026 at 9:48 am

          Because the followrs of Jesus had to make sense of why God would authorize, require, or even allow his own son to die. If he was the one most favored by God, why would he get tortured to death? The followers of Jesus, in my view, realized it must have been according to God’s own plan, and that made them think of why God required death. Humans die because of sin, but Jesus as the Son of God had not sinned. Why then? God does require sacrifice for atonement. So it must have been a sacrifice for atonement. I explain it all more fully in my book Love Thy STranger.

          • R_Gerl July 11, 2026 at 12:45 pm

            That explains the why and how the doctrine of the atonement was formulated. But that’s not what I’m asking. So, let me put it differently. We assume the doctrine of the atonement is correct, i.e. Jesus atoned for the sins of all people, in every generation, past, present, and future. So, why wouldn’t all people be saved on the Christian judgment day?

          • BDEhrman July 19, 2026 at 9:46 am

            Some theologians have thought they will. Those who think they will not say that it’s because salvation is a gift, and you don’t have a gift if you don’t accept it.

  6. rezubler July 8, 2026 at 9:12 am

    Bart,

    If one does not like the facts or does not care to carefully examine and explain all the facts that do not align with their beliefs, then personal attacks via falsehoods about their perceived opponents seem to be the age-old method of propping one’s self up by diminishing an opponent’s status. All the early church fathers certainly had their share of ridicule. Of course, in politics, ridicule is about all we see nowadays, but there seems to be some sort of ‘art form’ of ridicule developing where the humor or pain level of the ridicule gains all the attention while the facts or lies are deemed unimportant.

    You are certainly a ‘target’ of many wannabe scholars. People like Scott Carroll and James R. White seem to go out of their way to find a way to throw a spitball your way using a stretch of the truth to score zinger points whenever it is convenient for them. I know in some of your debates, your opponents have an advantage of reading your many books and all the public criticism (valid or not). You wear the target well.

    How many of your critics have ever admitted they were flat-out wrong?

    • BDEhrman July 9, 2026 at 6:11 am

      Well, none of the professional apologists. Their lives and livelihoods make it impossible. But lots of others have. C. J. Cornthwaite did a recent video on Youtube explaining how he hated my views but then realized they were right, and now is himself a very fine critical scholar.

  7. chapel19 July 8, 2026 at 7:46 pm

    From the website God’s Ancient Library: “Dr. Scott Carroll holds an M.A. in Church History from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and a Ph.D. in Ancient Studies from Miami University in Oxford, Ohio. His specialty is the history of the Bible and ancient languages, particularly those found in classical and biblical works.” Miami University graduate school does not currently offer that degree or anything like it. There’s no mention of anything that makes him qualified. BTW, I saw on the Evangelical Textual Criticism blog from 6/29/2019 that Carroll offered this apology: “Bart, I owe you my most sincere apology for inadvertently misrepresenting your position on Mark.” I guess it took him three years to apologize in a relatively obscure blog and it was a weak apology at that.

    • BDEhrman July 9, 2026 at 6:14 am

      Ah, interesting. Thanks. He never contacted me personally, but it wsa good of him to say it publicly.

      • Patty July 9, 2026 at 5:29 pm

        I think it might have been this post that prompted me to write Carroll an email about his mistake or lie or whatever it was. He wrote an apology in a reply, so I forwarded it, but you were like…mmm No. So then he wrote an apology on the ETC blog because that’s where everybody got their information from back in the days of the Mark scandal. He knew you would see it there. Not sure why he didn’t contact you personally.

        I’m pretty sure his PhD is legit. He studied under Dr. Yamauchi.

        I was so determined to get to the bottom of that scandal! lol I knew Obbink was involved, too, but the depth of his deception was pretty wild. Interestingly enough, even though he was brought up on a bunch of fraud/theft charges, he legitimately owned a rare Middle English manuscript that the UK put an export bar on to keep it in the country. He sold it for quite a bit less than what he paid for it. No doubt due to legal trouble.

        His castle was bought by Chris and Joanna Gaines (from the show Fixer Upper). They featured its makeover on Discovery Plus.

  8. Blanca23 July 10, 2026 at 2:52 pm

    Unfortunately, Carroll’s method of “debate” is very common. Instead of addressing an opponent’s real argument, he creates a “straw man” argument and attributes it to his opponent. The intent is to make his opponent look ridiculous, knowing that few people in his intended audience will bother to fact check his statement.

  9. terripetersen58 July 11, 2026 at 1:20 pm

    As an aside : I have been a docent at the Museum of the Bible since it opened in 2017. We learned from the best scholars and archeologists. Our scripts were historical and scholarly. Over the last 9 years we’ve had our scripts changed 5 times. We’re now to “testify” at the facsimile of the great Isaiah scroll how Jesus proclaimed he was the Messiah. we have a facsimile of the Hammurabi Stele but are not allowed to talk the laws of Hammurabi being similar to the laws of Moses, how these were probably “borrowed” while the Jews found themselves in Babylon. So much we learned that we are not allowed to say because it is not “faith promoting”.

    Recently they have brought a competing tour group (owned by Steve Greens son in law) to give a different tour about faith and spirituality , they even pray together at several points on the tour.

    It sickened me when the museum partnered with Freedom250 and i am heartsick to have to walk away from the museum . It is no longer a museum but a monument to modern evangelicalism. And yes, they do lie to make the artifacts fit their narrative.

    • BDEhrman July 17, 2026 at 10:57 am

      Thanks for this. Have you read the book on the Museum by Joel Baden and Candida Moss? It’s pretty codemnatory, but may well have been written early on in the museum’s history (I don’t recall the date)

  10. Dizzy July 12, 2026 at 1:09 pm

    Evangelicals? Really? What about Christians? And, about manuscripts? What about other things? And what about adherents to all the other religions? All religions are inventions. Religionists of ALL kinds tell lies adherents believe, or pretend to believe, because they have been brainwashed into believing, or pretending to believe, them. Heaven? Hell? A god who wants to have a daily conversation with every person on earth, and who will intervene in our lives when we ask him or her to intervene? And, if we’re lucky, maybe a god who will suspend or contravene a law of nature or two on our behalf? Free-floating consciousnesses existing after our integrated networks of firing neurons stop working and we are declared dead? A god who will instantly turn bread and water into the real body and blood of Christ if some magic words are said, as long as they are said by a male? Perfect justice eventually coming about somewhere up in the sky? The truth is, people like these teachings. They actually can and do give us comfort in a time of trial, and the hope of a better life after this one is over. None of this stuff is secret.

    • BDEhrman July 17, 2026 at 1:09 pm

      I define a lie as a falsehood that is intentionally told in order to deceive. I’m not sure that most false things religionists say are intentional deceits. At least not in my experience.

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