I thought the Double Slit experiment would be enough to convince people that God exists. Science says that human consciousness decides whether or not the electron is a wave or particle.
That makes no sense.
If you were trying to convince people that God exists, if for some reason you think the double slit experiment will convince them it does, then why did you say the double slit experiment was faked?
I feel the need to make two points in reply.
The first is just a clarification: I am not saying a necessary being is anything like the god of Classical Theism. I think there is a big gap between ‘there is some being that does not require any outside explanation” and saying “that necessary being has intellect and will and is omnipotent and omniscient.”
Maybe the necessary being is just the fields of Quantum Field Theory, and once you really understand those fields you will see why they couldn’t not have been. Or maybe the necessary being is the multiverse, and all the things that seem arbitrary to me are just necessary permutations (all permutations are real and necessary, but I only see one very small sample that, from my limited perspective, appears to be arbitrary).
The second thing I have to say is going to take a lot of work, which I just realized I don’t, at present, have time to do. So stay tuned.
Bart posted responses to his thread.
I found this one:
P.
I think you’re making God way too complicated. You’re saying you don’t believe in the very thing that put you here. What put you here? A cosmological force. That’s God. Why would it be anything else? People have experiences with this cosmological force daily. I have my experiences with it, and you have yours. When we gain knowledge, we are literally learning about God. It’s as simple as that.
Steefen
Should that cosmological force be shown gratitude through festivals of thanksgiving?
What happens if that cosmological force put us here via other beings more advanced than we were 200,000 years ago.
The Sumerian creation and flood epic, Atrahasis, said we were bio-engineered by Aliens. We were part earthling hominid and part Anunnaki Igiggi.
See YouTube Channel, Matthew LaCroix, video: Everything You Know Is Wrong Lloyd Pye – Human Origins, Anunnaki, Evolution
YouTube Channel, Gregg Braden, video: Why Recent DNA Evidence Doesn’t Support Theory of Evolution?
YouTube Channel, Danny Jones Clips video: #1 Genetic Evidence Humans Were Created (We Did NOT Evolve) | Gregg Braden
@Robert
In my Licentiate public lecture, I tried to combine apophatic agnosticism with the continual scientific search for understanding of the universe
Steefen
Whet is a Licentiate public lecture?
Google:
Apophatic theology, also known as negative theology, is a theological practice that attempts to describe God by negation. It’s based on the idea that God is beyond human comprehension and that human language is inadequate to describe God.
Wkikpedia
According to Carabine, “apophasis proper” in Greek thought starts with Neo-Platonism, with its speculations about the nature of the One, culminating in the works of Proclus.[4] Carabine writes that there are two major points in the development of apophatic theology, namely the fusion of the Jewish tradition with Platonic philosophy in the writings of Philo, and the works of Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite, who infused Christian thought with Neo-Platonic ideas.[4]
Plotinus (204/5–270 AD) was the founder of Neo-Platonism.[24] In the Neo-Platonic philosophy of Plotinus and Proclus, the first principle became even more elevated as a radical unity, which was presented as an unknowable Absolute.[21] For Plotinus, the One is the first principle, from which everything else emanates.
Steefen:
What? ? ?
Neo Platonism did not start until the third century with Plotinus ? ? ?
For some reason, I thought it was earlier.
Wiki:
For Plotinus, the One is the first principle, from which everything else emanates.[24] He took it from Plato’s writings, identifying the Good of the Republic, as the cause of the other Forms, with the One of the first hypothesis of the second part of the Parmenides.[24] For Plotinus, the One precedes the Forms,[24] and “is beyond Mind and indeed beyond Being.”[21] From the One comes the Intellect, which contains all the Forms.[24] The One is the principle of Being, while the Forms are the principle of the essence of beings, and the intelligibility which can recognize them as such.[24] Plotinus’s third principle is Soul, the desire for objects external to itself. The highest satisfaction of desire is the contemplation of the One,[24] which unites all existents “as a single, all-pervasive reality.”
Steefen:
The Good = the One
The Intellect comes from the One and from the One comes the Forms.
The One > The Intellect
Can Consciousness be The Intellect?
Steefen, are you re-inventing the wheel. There is the notion of God right there.
No, I’m not re-inventing the wheel. I see The One and Consciousness as Amoral.
The Good for humans come from humans or how they personify the good.
Whet is a Licentiate public lecture?
A licentiate is a pontifical (Roman Catholic) degree. It is roughly equivalent to the doctoral work (sans dissertation) for a PhD.
The last step in a Licentiate is a public lecture, or lectio coram. Usually, there is a list of possible topics, and the candidate finds out on relatively short notice (48 hrs, +-) which he will have to lecture (and take questions) on.
I cannot get over how after all the hundreds of millions of pounds of fish I’ve seen and the hundreds of trillions of pounds the fish market has seen that we’ve never once found one single fish that has strange little frog legs growing on it. Never. Not even once. Not even one little tiny evolutionary frog leg on it.
Robert, first off, fascinating read. (The same goes for your post 125, which I thoroughly enjoyed.)
My starting off point was an article by William Lane Craig about why the Second Law of Thermodynamics (entropy) was proof of (or implied?) the doctrine of creation. He was not yet an infamous apologist at the time, but he was studying in the philosophy faculty at the same university. I was fascinated by the science, appalled by the fundamentalism, and thought maybe I could gainsay him by going deeper into astrophysics and quantum mechanics. Bit off way more than I could chew.
They do like that Second Law of Thermodynamics.
When I was a fundamentalist and out to disprove all the heathen scientists, I remember reading Henry Morris’ The Genesis Record, where he talks about it in length. I read the book as blindly as I was reading the Bible because I wanted it to be true.
Bit off way more than I could chew.
If you wouldn’t mind expanding on the above, my curiosity has been piqued.
Science is agnostic towards itself. There’s no proof of anything, only whatever mathematical model and language seems to be the preferred way to describe it. Apply that scientific enlightenment to theology and it ends the same. There’s no scientific proof of anything. Some people get a big kick out of it because it allows for freedom.
Comment 133
Robert
one’s license to teach in a catholic university or seminary could be revoked if one’s teaching or publications were judged too controversial for the pope or the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith > Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith.
Steefen
That standard does not allow for thorough investigation. That is a corrupting influence.
Robert
I had a private audience with him.
Steefen
Him who–Pope John Paul II?
Robert
Hans Kung had is license to teach revoked for questioning Papal infallibility.
…the implications of contemporary astrophysics on the doctrine of creation and its implications on theological method
Steefen
Astrophysics is a branch of space science that applies the laws of physics and chemistry to seek to understand the universe and our place in it. The field explores topics such as the birth, life and death of stars, planets, galaxies, nebulae and other objects in the universe.
I would be surprised if 1) The Electric Universe was accepted back then. That was before 2) Hubble and definitely before 3) JWST.
Have those three given you advances in your knowledge?
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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