Gregory sees two sets of sayings of Jesus and Paul that I should log:

Jesus and Paul on Treating Transgressions with Gentleness

Jesus and Paul on The Burden of the Cross / Do the Work of Carrying Crosses

I will do my homework of seeing if I can put these sets in the same format as the ones I provided.

However, some book or even thesis paper should have done this by now, regardless of the conclusion the evidence makes apparent or supports.

Gregory
I’m not a mythicist.

Steefen
You think a biography of a unique, biological man was not embellished?

Gregory
I feel like I’m swimming against the stream. When I check commentaries, I usually find that such parallels as these are either ignored or framed in a way that makes it look like the influence of Paul is not possible.

Jesus and Paul by Tabor is an exception: Tabor is not a mythicist, but he does consider evidence for the literary influence of Paul’s epistles on the Gospels.

Steefen
If Bart and Richard Carrier are correct about Paul seeing Jesus as a cosmic being/angel, then the myth begins with Paul. 

Steefen
If Bart and Richard Carrier are correct about Paul seeing Jesus as a cosmic being/angel, then the myth begins with Paul.

Robert
That’s not what Bart (or the most scholars) believe. 

Steefen
Bart specifically says, Paul understood Christ to be an angel.

Bart Ehrman (2/23/2020)

Paul understood Christ to be an angel who became a human.

Christ as an Angel in Paul

Many people no doubt have the same experience I do on occasion, of reading something numerous times, over and over, and not having it register.   I have read Paul’s letter to the Galatians literally hundreds of times in both English and Greek.  But the clear import of what Paul says in ** you do not have permission to see this link **

In the context of the verse Paul is reminding the Galatians of how they first received him when he was ill in their midst, and they helped restore him to health.  This is what the verse in question says:

Even though my bodily condition was a test for you, you did not mock or despise me, but you received me as an angel of God, as Jesus Christ.

I had always simply read the verse to say that the Galatians had received Paul in his infirm state the way they would have received an angelic visitor, or even Christ himself.    In fact the grammar of the Greek suggests something quite different.   As the aforementioned Gieschen has argued, and has now been affirmed in a book on Christ as an angel by New Testament specialist Susan Garrett, the verse is not saying that the Galatians received Paul as an angel or as Christ; it is saying that they received him as they would an angel, such as Christ.** you do not have permission to see this link **  By clear implication, then, Christ is an angel.

As I indicated, the reason for reading the verse this way has to do with the Greek grammar.   When Paul uses the construction “but as … as” he is not contrasting two things; he is stating that the two things are the same thing.  We know this because Paul uses this grammatical construction in a couple of other places in his writings, and the meaning in these cases is unambiguous.   For example, in ** you do not have permission to see this link **, which also has this grammatical feature.

But this means that in ** you do not have permission to see this link ** indicates that Paul “identifies [Jesus Christ] with God’s chief angel” [p. 11].

If that’s the case, then virtually everything Paul ever says about Christ throughout his letters makes perfect sense.   As the Angel of the Lord, Christ is a pre-existent being who is divine; he can be called God; and he is God’s manifestation on earth in human flesh.   Paul says all these things about Christ, and in no passage more strikingly than in ** you do not have permission to see this link **, a passage that is often called by scholars the “Philippians Hymn” or the “Christ Hymn of Philippians,” since it is widely thought to embody an early hymn or poem devoted to celebrating Christ and his incarnation.

My friend Charles Cosgrove, a life-long scholar of Paul who is also one of the world’s experts on music in the early Christian world, has convinced me that the passage could not have been an actual hymn that was sung, since it does not scan properly, as a musical piece, in the Greek.   And so it may be a poem or even a kind of exalted prose composition.  But what is clear is that it is an elevated reflection on Christ coming into the world (from heaven) for the sake of others and being glorified by God as a result.  And it appears to be a passage Paul is quoting, one with which the Philippians themselves may well have already been familiar.  In other words, it is another pre-Pauline tradition (see the discussion of ** you do not have permission to see this link ** on pp. xxx).

Link:
** you do not have permission to see this link **

Robert
For example, Bart and many others believes that Philippians hymn…

Steefen
Bart says, I am convinced by Charles Cosgrove, a life-long scholar of Paul, that the passage could not have been an actual hymn that was sung:

My friend Charles Cosgrove, a life-long scholar of Paul who is also one of the world’s experts on music in the early Christian world, has convinced me that the passage could not have been an actual hymn that was sung, since it does not scan properly, as a musical piece, in the Greek.   And so it may be a poem or even a kind of exalted prose composition.

Steefen said
Gregory sees two sets of sayings of Jesus and Paul that I should log:

Jesus and Paul on Treating Transgressions with Gentleness

Jesus and Paul on The Burden of the Cross / Do the Work of Carrying Crosses

I will do my homework of seeing if I can put these sets in the same format as the ones I provided.

However, some book or even thesis paper should have done this by now, regardless of the conclusion the evidence makes apparent or supports.

  

From ** you do not have permission to see this link **

…if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness (πραΰτητος)…

…for each one should carry their own burden (τὸ ἴδιον φορτίον)…. May I never boast except in the cross (ἐν τῷ σταυρῷ) of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world… From now on, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear the marks of Jesus on my body.

From ** you do not have permission to see this link **

And whoever does not take his cross (τὸν σταυρὸν αὐτοῦ) and follow me is not worthy of me…

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle (πραΰς) and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden (τὸ φορτίον μου) is light.

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Steefen, Argumentation Specialist
Authentic Letter of Paul? Yes, Galatians is considered one of the seven authentic letters of Paul

Paul on Treating Transgressions of Others with Gentleness
Brothers, even if a person is caught in some transgression, you who are spiritual should correct that one in a gentle spirit, looking to yourself, so that you also may not be tempted.
Galatians 6: 1

Jesus on Treating Transgressions of Others with Gentleness
Gregory sees Matthew 11:29 but I see how Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery–Jesus treated her with gentleness.
I see John 8: 3-11

A cross-reference to Galatians 6: 1 is Matthew 18: 15 (if your brother sins against you, go and confront him privately. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.)

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Gregory, the second set Jesus and Paul sayings that you present regarding cross and burden, I am unable to use. Paul at Gal. 6: 5 is about carrying one’s own burden. I think there’s a difference between burdens of life and sacrificial burdens of life related to one’s religious beliefs.