Paul helps date Jesus to 30 CE instead of
Em-manu-El – The family tree of Queen Helena who helped in the Jewish Revolt
Jesus of Galilee – who was the rebel who fought the Battle of Galilee against Vespasian and Titus. Jesus and his army was defeated.
The Woe-Saying Jesus – who was dated to be shouting after 30 CE
Jesus of Gamla – the high priest who was killed by the Idumeans, not by Rome or Jews plotting to have Jesus crucified
Professor Livesey,
And Albert Schweitzer did not catch your criticism of Bauer ? ? ?
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
and Content Creator of the YouTube video:
2025-April-11: Jesus is Decius Mundus. – Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews 18.3.4
Gnostic Informant [Neal Sendlak ]
Who is Paul writing to?
Who?
They have not read one gospel because they aren’t written yet.
All these churches far away know some Oral Tradition about Jesus.
Jesus was not that popular before the gospels were written.
Prof. Livesey
I see your line of reasoning and agree with you.
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Editorial Reviews
Review
A fine and expert analysis of Paul’s rhetoric in Galatians … An example of the very best scholarship to bridge the two disciplines, Classics and Religious Studies. –Christine Shea, Ball State University
The interpretation of the apostle Paul has long puzzled scholars and continue to do so. Did Paul leave Judaism for Christianity or did he, as more recent scholarship suggests, remain a Torah observant Jew all his life? By applying a ‘rhetoric-of-crisis’ approach to Galatians, Nina E. Livesey convincingly shows that Paul uses similar rhetorical strategies as other ancient authors involved in polemical discourses, which has far-reaching consequences for how to understand Paul’s use of dichotomies and exaggerations as well as his relation to Judaism. This ground-breaking study of Paul’s polemics cannot be overlooked by any serious student of the apostle, and is likely to have a considerable effect on all future discussions of Pauline hermeneutics. –Magnus Zetterholm, Lund University
Nina Livesey offers up a most illuminating study of Paul’s letter to the Galatians. Grounded in ancient rhetorical practice and performance, particularly a close comparative reading of Demosthenes and Cicero, Livesey deploys the category “rhetoric of crisis” to illustrate the rhetorical dynamics and textures that permeate Paul’s argument in this bafflingly contentious missive. Livesey compellingly argues that we must rethink how-and how seriously!-we read, understand, and take Paul’s rhetoric. … This book has the potential to be a game changer. –Todd Penner, author of De-Introducing the New Testament
@darrylthomas815
8 days ago
I’ve read both the Rhetoric of Crisis and going through this beautiful edition of Dr. Livesey on the letters of Paul, and ever since coming across the Dutch Radical Critics, I had suspicions that Paul may have been based on a figure or combination of figures, but what we have in the NT is a literary creation. Dr. Livesey’s perspective is compelling and may have shifted the paradigm in Pauline studies in a major way.
@nrudy
7 days ago
I waited 6 months for Dr. Livesey’s book and it was worth the wait! Loved it, found it incredibly persuasive. Highly recommend the read to anyone interested.
@harrywall8182
10 days ago
Well, I spent a lot of time reading the bible without any historical knowledge hoping I could change my life for the better and it took a couple years but I finally had to admit to myself that the bible can’t be harmonized with reality or even harmonized with itself and so I abandoned that project
[Yes, the book is so expensive – $110.]
@rachmondhoward2125
10 days ago
Paul is a mythological construct. The dead give away is his linked to the sinful warrior-king Saul who in turn is linked to the sinful ravenous wolves the Benjamites where wolves is a metaphor for violence and aspect related to priestly sacrifice, a violent act hence you also had the warrior-priests. It is for the same reason that Paul is a Pharisee. The “falling down” of Paul and seeing a light is just a different rendition of the Angel of Light falling down, that is Lucifer. But this “falling down” mythological theme goes back to the falling of Great Pan and is played with in different ways with ‘falling’ and ‘sleeping’ being the most prominent rendition found in many different mythologies and religions. Gilgamesh likes to sleep, so does many different Hindu deities including Vishnu and Buddha is often depicted as sleeping and yes so is thieving Jacob sleeping when he wrestles with Elohim (many gods) and it takes us way back to sleeping Adam.
@baarbacoa
10 days ago (edited)
My longstanding belief has been that Jesus and his movement were unpalatable to Rome. And Paul’s purpose was to restructure and reorient it into something Rome would accept. And to separate it from Judaism. So Paul being a semi-fictional or fictional makes a lot of sense to me.
Super- interesting!
@alexlarsen6413
10 days ago
So cool you got to interview her!
Admittedly, I had hoped she would clear up some of the issues I have about her hypothesis, but unfortunately it didn’t happen.
My main sticking points are:
1) If the whole thing in its entirety is epistolary fiction, based on the Acts that precede it, how come there’s such a significant mismatch between the Paul of the Acts and Paul of the Epistles, with the latter Paul seemingly knowing close to nothing of the former one and even going as far as to often literally contradict himself? Makes no sense to me.
2) If this is as late as Marcion – middle of the 2nd century, how come Paul in general knows so little about Jesus of the gospel, even if it is “just” a version of Luke (one of the synoptic gospels) contained in Marcion’s Evangelion? That’s odd given that according to Marcion, Paul was the “only true apostle”, with proper understanding of the gospel of Jesus…yet, quite ironically, the very few times this “one true apostle” riffs on Jesus, it’s usually about something in line with Torah – “the Old Testament” from the demiurge??
Something’s off there.
With that being said, the hypothesis definitely deserves to be on the table, however the arguments contained within it, need way more work and refinement, hopefully in cooperation with the current cutting edge scholarship on Marcion.
@alexlarsen6413
8 days ago (edited)
@smillstill I don’t find it particularly convincing either, but Vinzent’s work is in my opinion orders of magnitude above this. This to me seems largely as speculation.
On the other hand tho, I don’t see such a big problem in terms of the timeline if this were true. It would just push back the composition of the gospels, as well as Paul’s epistles by some 80 – 100 years. That in fact, would kinda make more sense to me since I’ve honestly always found Paul’s character, writing to these well established churches all over the Roman Empire, mere 20 years after Jesus’ crucifixion and death, a bit odd.
However if you view it as a retroactive fiction meant to strengthen one’s own contemporary position against the messianic Jewish opponents, it suddenly makes more sense.
Still, as I’ve said; regardless of what common sense might tell you, or in this case me…that’s not how this stuff is analyzed historically. For that, you need to follow concrete evidence, and at least from Dr. Livesey’s speeches on this subject, I can’t see enough evidence to support her hypothesis.
I haven’t read her book tho, so admittedly…I don’t have the full picture.
Prof. Livesey:
The letters in Revelation in the first 2 or 3 chapters follow on the Letters of Paul
but flipping as I’m doing
the Letters of Paul follow the letters in Revelation.
And now you have a pattern.
Gnostic Informant
You have the same community letters–all famous cities.
Prof. Livesey:
It is interesting to think that Paul’s letters to these famous cities follows Revelation’s letters to famous cities.
Jarek
This supports my hypothesis that Josephus was coincidentally the founding father of Christianity.
Steefen
Josephus had something to do with the founding of Pauline Christianity.
If Josephus had something to do with the founding of Pauline Christianity,
then, Vespasian and Titus had something do do with the founding of Pauline Christianity.
I hate to break it to everyone, and finally come clean, but I was the one who wrote Paul’s letters. I did it starting in March 2020, when covid shut the world down. I used that time to pen all the correspondence (plus Acts) and forge artifacts of the writings, giving them the false appearance of great age. But my masterstroke, and linchpin to the entire plot, was using the covid vaccine to create a false memory (a true Mandela effect) in the minds of all peoples that Paul and his letters had existed all along. The truth is, pre-covid, no one would believe such an absurd story about a Pharisee-persecutor-of-Christians-turned-Christian-mission. Indeed, I copied the entire idea from Greek myth. The hardest part was writing two centuries of criticism and twenty centuries of theology based on the fakata Pauline corpus.
Book Description
This study argues that the seven letters of Paul, widely assumed as authentic, should be reclassified as pseudonymous.
Reply: Buy or build your own printing press and made a pseudonymous Bible to sell. If they are confident in their reasoning then they will also pay for the cost of accomplishing it.
Nina E. Livesey and Gnostic Informant:
People wrote fake dialogues and fake letters in ancient times. The authentic letters of Paul are another example of fictive letters (Letter of Aristeas about the Septuagint) and pseudonymous, fictive letter collections were popular (Dr. Owen Hodkinson, Univ of Leeds), the Paul and Seneca letters, etc.
Steve Campbell:
author of Historical Accuracy
YouTube Content Creator of channel WBFbySteefen
Video: 2025-April-11: Jesus is Decius Mundus. – Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews 18.3.4
You say the authentic letters of Paul is a pseudonymous, fictive letter collection.
Are the gospels a pseudonymous, fictive literature collection?
Comment left on Facebook
and YouTube Channel: Gnostic Informant
video:: Biblical Professor: Paul & His Letters were FABRICATED
Steefen,
I do value this kind of critical textualism rhetoric as being open minded conjecture and as harmless conspiracy theory, but there is nothing to prove one argument over another opposite argument because of the differences in time and technology of then and now. Yea, the logical reasoning involved still remains as aspects of faith.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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