1️⃣ Correct AM-year descending order (earliest → latest)
| Event | Approx BCE / BP | AM Year |
|---|---|---|
| Younger Dryas Flood | 10,900–9,700 BCE | 14,660–13,460 AM |
| Natufian culture | ~9,075 BCE | 12,835 AM |
| Earliest Eridu (archaeology) | 5,400 BCE | 9,160 AM |
| Tigris/Euphrates flood (Ur) | 3,500 BCE | 7,260 AM |
| Tigris/Euphrates flood (Shuruppak) | 2,950–2,850 BCE | 6,710–6,610 AM |
| Adam (Masoretic) | 3,760 BCE | 1 AM |
| Noah / biblical Flood | 2,348 BCE | 1,412 AM |
| Abraham | 2,000 BCE | 1,760 AM |
2️⃣ Footnote
AM = Anno Mundi (“Year of the World”) — in the Jewish calendar system, AM 1 = Creation / Adam = 3760 BCE.
- To convert BCE → AM: AM = 3760 + BCE year
- Higher AM numbers = further back in time; lower AM numbers = closer to the present.
- AM is not the same as “years ago” — it is a calendar count from Creation.
✅ Correct Chronological Timeline Table (by BCE)
| Event | Approx BCE | AM Year* |
|---|---|---|
| Younger Dryas Flood | 10,900–9,700 BCE | 14,660–13,460 AM |
| Natufian culture | ~9,075 BCE | 12,835 AM |
| Earliest Eridu (archaeology) | 5,400 BCE | 9,160 AM |
| Adam (Masoretic) | 3,760 BCE | 1 AM |
| Tigris/Euphrates flood (Ur) | 3,500 BCE | 7,260 AM |
| Tigris/Euphrates flood (Shuruppak) | 2,950–2,850 BCE | 6,710–6,610 AM |
| Noah / biblical Flood | 2,348 BCE | 1,412 AM |
| Abraham | 2,000 BCE | 1,760 AM |
*AM = Anno Mundi (“Year of the World”), AM 1 = Creation / Adam = 3760 BCE.
Steefen:
Shuruppak is nearest Mount Ararat.
The Shuruppak flood is 500-600 years BEFORE Noah’s flood.
And
We cannot use the Younger Dryas Flood as the Noah Flood.
We cannot use Adam & Eve as the first humans 3760 BCE because we have the advanced civilization of Eridu 5400 BCE.
Atrahasis puts creation of humans at Shuruppak with the Igigi living before then at Ur and Eridu.
By the time Abraham leaves Ur, humans are at Ur.
= = =
Not so fast. Eridu could be an advanced civilization of Igigi. Humans do not have to be 5400 BCE. Humans can still be at Shuruppak 3000 BCE.
So why do Adam and Eve have to be naked in Shuruppak?
Were the Igigi naked in Eridu?
= = =
So you’re saying the Elohim had created Adam & Eve after the Igigi were on the earth at Eridu?
Why didn’t the Elohim/God tell us about the advanced civilization before Adam & Eve at Ur and the advanced civilization before Ur at Eridu?
= = =
Steefen1
You’re going to try to make the Holy Bible work, aren’t you?
Steefen2
If I’m supposed to fit in at church and believe in the Bible.
Steefen1
So, was Adam & Eve created 3760 BCE using the Bible story or was Adam & Eve created 2900 BCE using the Atrahasis story?
Steefen2
That would give the family tree time to grow from Adam to Noah if Adam & Eve were created 3760 BCE. But I better stick with the Archaeology of finding the clay tablets of Sumer and the Archaeology of flood layers at Sharrupak.
Jewish Year 5786 – 2025 = ~3761 BCE
For now, we have the Noah story and the Adam & Eve Story.
The problem is Atrahasis is an Adam & Eve story AND a Noah story at the same time!
Yes, Steefen: There are significant discrepancies between the biblical timeline of humanity and the timelines we get from other sources.
This is one reason that critical scholars and others so inclined tend not to take the biblical timeline very seriously, taken as literal history and that fundamentalists tend to dismiss secular historical work.
Dr. Ehrman,
Archeology gives us these three floods:
Younger Dryas Flood approximately 10,000 BCE
Tigris/Euphrates Flood at Ur approximately 3500 BCE
Tigris/Euphrates Flood at Shuruppak approximately 2900 BCE
Mt. Ararat was closer to Shuruppak than Ur, and Noah lived around 2340 BCE.
QUESTION: As a Biblical Critic, you and other scholars would say Noah’s flood was the Tigris/Euphrates Flood at Shuruppak?
(Of the three floods only the Younger Dryas Flood was not local to Tigris/Euphrates, but it was more global befitting destroying all humans across the globe, as the Bible suggests.)
Thank you.
Archeology gives us these three floods…
But don’t forget the ** you do not have permission to see this link ** that occurred about 230 million years ago during the Late Triassic period. A period of fierce volcanic eruptions released huge amounts of greenhouse gases, heating the atmosphere, resulting in intense worldwide monsoon-like rains that lasted for one to two million years! The CPE caused mass extinctions that cleared the contemporary ecosystem leading to the dominance of the dinosaurs. Much like the Chicxulub impact 65 million years ago cleared the environment for our own ancestors. The mass extinction giveth and the mass extinction taketh away.
Noah’s flood was the Tigris/Euphrates Flood at Shuruppak?
Noah’s flood was not simply a flood. It was an uncreation of the world. The bonds holding back the primordial chaos were loosened. It is a mistake to look for some historical analog to the account. It misses the point.
Stephen said
Noah’s flood was not simply a flood. It was an uncreation of the world. The bonds holding back the primordial chaos were loosened. It is a mistake to look for some historical analog to the account. It misses the point.
A quite important point.
While one can imagine that, for example, the flood that created the Persian Gulf could inspire later myths of a great flood, the actual Persian Gulf infill flood was more the result of sea level rise of the Indian Ocean than the result of the primordial waters above the vault of the heavens that we see at night be released to flood the land below …
… given that those primordial waters and the vault of heavens don’t actually exist.
Back to defending Stephen.
200+ million years is outside of the scope of both the Genesis Noah story and the Atrahasis flood story.
That’s the way Robert and Stephen reason arguments.
So what?
I’ll tell you so what.
The two stories speak of men who survived the flood.
You’re saying these two men lived and these accounts took place 200+ million years ago?
People who read the HOLY BIBLE are supposed to believe that?
There is no footnote in the Bible pointing to the Carnian Pluvial Episode extinction event. Second, homo sapiens sapiens are not on the picture of species alive at that time. Third, There is no footnote in the Atrahasis translation that Enlil and humans were that old–even with the kings list dating.
Stephen’s comment and your defending Stephen are way out of temporal scope.
Stephen said he was not going to participate in my discussions–and I welcome that for good reason.
The Jewish calendar year is 5786, not 200+ million years.
You’re violating your own rule. This is sensational, unscientific nonsense. Remove the distracting comments.
= = =
The Carnian Pluvial Event was a period of intense and prolonged rainfall,
lasting for about 1-2 million years,
(Noah did not live 1-2 million years from before the flood to after the flood.)
that occurred around 234 to 232 million years ago during the Late Triassic Epoch.
This climate shift, likely triggered by massive volcanic activity, caused global warming, transformed Earth from a drier climate to a lush, wet one, and led to a major restructuring of life, including the extinction of some species and the diversification and eventual dominance of dinosaurs.
My post have already inferred that Bible flood or the Atrahasis flood was a local Tigris/Euphrates flood that did not kill all humans except the family of “Noah.”
So is Yahweh or the Elohim global gods that can create and destroy species globally?
Like I said many times before, the god of the Bible is a local god.
Neither Yahweh/Elohim/Enlil said, I’m going to destroy the species of humans like I destroyed other species, globally, 200+ million years ago.
People tally their reasons for not believing in the Bible, for not being Jewish, for not being Christian, for not being a Muslim, for accepting the Bible as literature not fact.
People tally their reasons for not following the instructions of evangelists. “No, I will not read your Holy Bible” or study its contents.
That’s a draw of Bart Ehrman. Oh, Jesus has been misquoted? Scripture has been corrupted?
BJH, that is part of the reason people are members of Bart’s website. That is part of the reason I’ve been a member of Bart’s website going back to 2012.
People once first believed in this. People were disowned for not believing the Holy Bible.
Tell us what is so silly about a factual deep dive into verses of the Noah story.
You’re supposed to be the welcoming and encouraging administrator.
You don’t want people talking about science until you get around to giving science it’s own header.
Science vs. Religion has been topic around since the Scopes Trial in 1925 since Origin of the Species was published in 1859, if not before.
As soon as my goodwill starts a thread about the Bible you find a way to call that silly.
There is nothing silly about the Holy Bible being in any way derivative from epics from Sumer.
There is nothing silly about exaggerated statements in the Holy Bible: a global god was actually a local god, a global flood was actually a local flood, all of humanity was evil and deserved to be drowned was actually not all of humanity was evil.
Robert:
That you perceive my comment as a defense of Stephen makes no sense whatsoever.
Stephen:
But don’t forget the Carnian Pluvial Event that occurred about 230 million years ago
Steefen:
Neither the Noah story nor the Atrahasis story reference 200+ million years ago.
Robert:
So what?
Steefen:
That means you do not agree with the importance of my rebuttal to Stephen.
Result: Stephen, Steefen has not said anything worth considering: your position stands.
Then you go on to say don’t take the dates literally.
I do not take them as literally as you may think. I’ve already said I was willing to say the Noah flood is off by hundreds of years so the Noah flood is actually the Shuruppak flood.
I could think about whether or not Atrahasis was the Ur flood or the Shuruppak flood.
[Be right back.]
Answer: or the Kish flood which there was as well but leave the Noah flood as being the Shuruppak flood.
Still, there are so many bibles and biblical books that have timelines and maps that try to show events of the bible in historical and geographical context. You’re calling all of that scholarly effort silly also. Why don’t you tell Bart that you think Biblical scholars are silly.
Steefen, from what I understand, you view the Genesis stories as being based on earlier myths.
Atrahasis puts creation of humans at Shuruppak with the Igigi living before then at Ur and Eridu.
If you would, please expand on the above. Do you view the Igigi as purely mythical or do you think they represent a pre-human civilization?
200+ million years is outside of the scope of both the Genesis Noah story and the Atrahasis flood story.
Perhaps but wouldn’t you say that Noah’s Flood as described in Holy Writ more closely resembles a Mass Extinction Event than some picayune semi-historical flood confined to the Ancient Near East? Don’t blame me for your lack of imagination.
As for Robert “defending” me…
A while back I was at the grocer’s, wandering amongst the vegetables. I had difficulty opening a plastic bag provided to hold my onions. You see, just that morning I had trimmed my nails with garden shears so I could find little purchase to pull open the lip of the bag. (They do tend to stick together in the humidity.) A woman I did not know, shopping nearby, walked up to me and without a word took the bag out of my hands, opened it, and handed it back. (On consideration I suspect she was some kind of caretaker. Perhaps she had a feeble mother or a decrepit uncle?) At first I was quite taken aback. Did she think me helpless?
Upon reflection I realized that the scandal wasn’t that she sprang to be of assistance. No, the true offense was that everyone else around us didn’t pause their own shopping and immediately rush to help me as well! It is simply my due as one of the Highborn! (And it doesn’t hurt that I’m so darned cute.)
I trust my point is obvious.
(I do draw the line at displays like throwing down jackets to cover mud puddles in my path of course. Such ostentations would make me seem vainglorious. Everyone knows I am the most modest of men. My chief affliction is an admiration for alliteration.)
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