BJH1960 said
Aliens, of course!
That would make sense. It would definitely cut down on the travel time considerably.
I’m afraid I don’t know what speed their spacecraft can reach, but I just know they have to be fast.
Quite. Even if they arrive in this system in a generation ship, the technology to maintain a generation ship would imply an ability to build transportation that is quite fast by 1st century CE standards.
Aliens hanging around earth after having arrived in our solar system in a generation ship would also offer a simple explanation of how the Magi followed a “star” until it was stationary above Bethlehem.
And of course, a generation ship would also answer the question of why they don’t appear to be around today, as that is simply evidence that sometime between then and now, they moved on to their next system to visit.
I had to fact check this…
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe. Ha!
The Emperor Ashoka was a fascinating figure. Even in victory after his unification of India he was so repulsed by the carnage that he converted to Buddhism. Historians still debate Constantine’s conversion and speculate about his level of personal piety but there can be little doubt about Ashoka. How do we know? He suppressed the Indian slave trade, regulated debt slavery and forbade chattel slavery outright. He enacted some of the first workers’ rights laws of which we are aware. Ashoka built hospitals, both human and veterinary(!) across India. He banned royal hunts, prohibited animal sacrifices, and built wildlife refuges. Now paradise on earth did not ensue of course, but how long was it before these values appeared in any widespread or meaningful way in the West? Too bad Ashoka didn’t send more missionaries!
Not aliens, time travel!
One of my favorite non-orthodox interpretations of Jesus is Michael Moorcock’s youthful experiment in blasphemy, ** you do not have permission to see this link **, from 1968. Concern for spoilers prevents me from sharing too many details but it is about a New Testament scholar, obsessed with Jesus, who just happens to have a friend who invents a time machine. At some point I recommended it to Prof Ehrman but I don’t know if he ever read it.
Or, worse than time travel…
Another, much less successful attempt at blasphemy, ** you do not have permission to see this link ** by J. G. Eccarius, apparently a pen name. It’s a brilliant idea and would explain a lot but unhappily I must report it is a terribly written novel. Sad, but sometimes the conception outstrips the execution.
ps: While I’m on the subject of blasphemy let me go ahead and add Brain Caldwell’s ** you do not have permission to see this link **, an End Times novel, believe it or not! It accepts the traditional dispensationalist End Times mythology (Rapture, Tribulation Period etc), but is told from the point of view of the Have-Nots, the folks on the bottom rung of the ladder. The ones who didn’t get the special revelation.
Ashoka does sound fascinating. I might just see what biographies there are of his out there.
Behold the Man! sounds worth reading. I like the date it was published as well. One wonders if that’ll play a role in what Jesus we’ll meet. There doesn’t seem to be a Kindle available, so I’ll have to wait till I’m stateside for that one.
I’ve loved the idea of time travel since I was a kid watching ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Steefen said
Dr. Ehrman,
Archeology gives us these three floods:
Younger Dryas Flood approximately 10,000 BCE
Tigris/Euphrates Flood at Ur approximately 3500 BCE
Tigris/Euphrates Flood at Shuruppak approximately 2900 BCE
Mt. Ararat was closer to Shuruppak than Ur, and Noah lived around 2340 BCE.
QUESTION: As a Biblical Critic, you and other scholars would say Noah’s flood was the Tigris/Euphrates Flood at Shuruppak?
(Of the three floods only the Younger Dryas Flood was not local to Tigris/Euphrates, but it was more global befitting destroying all humans across the globe, as the Bible suggests.)
Thank you.
Dr. Ehrman:
I suppose different scholars have different views.
There are tons of floods we never hear of and have no evidence of.
My sense is that flood stories arose in communities that had experienced them
and saw them as acts of divine judgment.
** you do not have permission to see this link **
= = = =
Steefen:
Correction: The Younger Dryas Flood was 12,800 years ago. The biblical flood was described as more than a local Tigris/Euphrates flood. The Younger Dryas Flood was more than a local Tigris/Euphrates flood. It is disappointing that the Genesis flood seems to date to 2900 BCE when there was a much earlier flood of greater impact dating to 12,800 years ago. See YouTube Channel: Chronicles of the Lost, Video: AI Just Discovered What Caused the Great Flood 12,800 years ago.
A description of the ** you do not have permission to see this link **in question:
“Chronicles of the Lost explores ancient mysteries through the lens of artificial intelligence. Using AI-driven analysis, data reconstruction, and visual simulations, we uncover lost civilizations, forbidden archaeology, unexplained artifacts, and hidden chapters of human history. From drowned worlds and sacred ruins to anomalies science can’t fully explain — this channel blends history, technology, and mystery to question what we think we know about the past. These documentaries are AI-assisted investigations, not confirmed facts — built on patterns, theories, and unresolved evidence. If you’re fascinated by lost worlds, forgotten civilizations, and what AI can reveal about humanity’s deepest secrets — you’re in the right place.”
There are many eye-opening videos on display, but I will share with you only two:
Most Mysterious Roads Built By Ancient Time Travelers
Atlantis – The Lost Mysteries They Don’t Want You to Know!
Last month we were having a brief discussion of Hindu King Ashoka, his conversion to Buddhism, and his missionary outreach to the West. I stumbled upon this here video from the reliable ReligionForBreakfast Ytube channel run by Dr. Andrew M. Henry, whose research focus is early Christianity and late Roman religion.
Doubtless one of the keys to the success of Christianity was its exclusivity but looking back I can’t help but wonder what pagan polytheism might have mutated into, left to its own devices. Syncretism seems a much healthier attitude psychologically than exclusivity. (And recognizing of course that even Christianity absorbed other traditions and made them their own.)
Might the wooden structure explored by the Hong Kong team and by Philip Ernest Williams be Noah’s Ark?
========
The Ron Wyatt-promoted item isn’t Noah’s ark.
A much better candidate is in:
Henri Nissen, _Noah’s Ark: Ancient Accounts and New Discoveries_ (2012), 330pp., on 136
Despite the many investigations, it remains, however, a big mystery what the curious boat-shaped object in Durupinar actually is.
===
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–>
Noahs Ark found in Turkey 7 Spaces were Discovered 探索隊新考據，七度空間曝光 – NoahsArkSearch
Noahs ark: New footages of the NAMI expedition in 2009 – The Shroud of Turin
pegs 3.01 9.10 15.55
black shiny coating 7.00 12.03 16.12
wood craftsmanship 11.25+
rectangular holes 13.28
Estimated length 100+ meters
boards held together by long square wooden pegs: 3:33
First American Visit to the Mount Ararat Discovery – Philip Ernest Williams
examples of woodworking: 4:42 5:37 5:52 7:34+
Second Deck Noah’s Ark – Philip Ernest Williams
===
Did a catastrophic flood bring about “the collapse of the EB III urban culture”?
Amihai Mazar, _Archaeology of the Land of the Bible, Volume I: 10,000-586 B.C.E._ (1992)
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Page 151 — For about three hundred years following the collapse of the EB III urban culture, Palestine was sparsely populated, mainly by pastoralists and village dwellers.
This period of decline parallels the First Intermediate Period in Egypt (Dynasties VII—XI), during which there was a decentralization of power and a break in the traditional connections between Egypt and Asia, particularly those with Byblos.
The end of Palestine’s period of decline also has a parallel in Egyptian history:
the revival of urbanization in Palestine at the beginning of the Middle Bronze Age II corresponds with the rise of the Middle Kingdom in Egypt, ca. 2000 B.C.E.
Mesopotamia also suffered from invasions and instability, though only for a relatively short duration (ca. 2230-2130 B.C.E.).
hat tip
Philip Ernest Williams, _The Archaeological Evidence of Noah’s Flood_ (2011), 411pp., on 136
“It is disappointing that the Genesis flood seems to date to 2900 BCE when there was a much earlier flood of greater impact dating to 12,800 years ago”
He puts Noah’s Flood as being far older than merely 3000 BC:
Hugh Ross, _Noah’s Flood Revisited: New Depths of Insight from Science and Scripture_ (2025)
Was a massive local flood in the Middle East responsible for:
“fast-paced karst erosion visible on both the Khufu, and especially the Khafre, pyramids”?
the salt crystals inside the Cheops and Khufu pyramids?
Hidden in Plain Sight – Dec 18, 2023
** you do not have permission to see this link **
The Metrics and Evidence
…I have observed that Egypt runs out into the sea further than the adjoining land, and that shells are found upon the mountains of it, and an efflorescence of salt forms upon the surface, so that even the pyramids are being eaten away by it…
~ Herodotus, An Account of Egypt, 440 BCE^56
Accordingly, I have outlined the measures and dynamics of this particular form of karst erosion, in Exhibits F, G, and H below.
The grey area in Exhibits F and H, represents an ocean level which is 576 feet higher than our current day normal.
This represents the height of ocean above current sea level which is required to create this fast-paced karst erosion visible on both the Khufu, and especially the Khafre, pyramids.
A 576 ft pause in this sea level is the origin of that light colored karst erosion band shown in the Exhibits E1 and E2 photos to the immediate above – as well as in Exhibits F and G below.
This erosion band was caused by a highly energized ocean, averaging a sea state of 6 to 8, over a significant period of time.
I have sailed a ship in sea states 7 and 9 before.
These were terrifying events, with waves taller than my bridge wing and ship.
Thereafter, the waters appear to have retracted almost as quickly as they encroached.
This is a warning flag that we should heed and understand as mankind.
Take your time in examining Exhibit F below, as it is packed with relevant deductive observation.
Below, one can observe the horizon-disciplined (as in water-level) karst erosion which is centered around the 312′ level (576′ above sea level) of the Khafre pyramid.
There is only one factor which can cause such an erosion pattern.
In a Holmesian sense, even though this factor may seem like an implausibility, the characteristics of these marks serve to eliminate every other possibility, and we are left with only one possible answer.
This was caused by a global or regional inundation.
…
In other words, aside from an initial quick surge of maybe 1500-2200 ft, the oceans in this case settled at a specific height (576′ above sea level and 312′ up the pyramid height), stayed there for some amount [of] time, and then returned more gradually to their current context in a machine-like manner.
As well, salt encrustations found within the Queen’s Chamber of the Khufu pyramid serve to confirm the overarching seawater inundation construct.^17
Erich von Däniken, _Remnants of the gods_ (2014), 220pp.
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Page 171 — If the Cheops pyramid had been built before the Flood, it would have been submerged just like the (alleged) Sneferu pyramid.
Where are the watermarks with Cheops?
Salt crystals, for which there is no explanation, were found in some places inside the pyramid—for example, the ceiling of the “uppermost relief chamber is covered in incredibly large salt crystals.”^30
The diligent Alireza Zarei has provided the photographic evidence. (Image 149)
Genesis 8 (NIV)
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3 The water receded steadily from the earth.
At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down,
4 and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.
5 The waters continued to recede until the tenth month,
and on the first day of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible.
Two Intrigues About Noah’s Flood
“… it is physically impossible for a flood to cover the earth, and, as it turns out,there is no geological evidence for any such thing.”
Steve:
Not quite:
There was the Black Sea Deluge (Early Holocene). As the GLOBAL ice sheets melted in the early Holocene, global sea levels rose. Around 7,500 to 9,400 years ago, the rising Mediterranean Sea got so high it overflowed its natural boundary. It permanently flooded thousands of square miles of the southern European/Anatolian coastline, displacing early agricultural communities.
While that was happening, Mesopotamia was experiencing its own massive environmental transformation. As the ice sheets melted globally, the Indian Ocean rose and pushed its way up into what is now the Persian Gulf, blocking the exit of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, causing water to back up and spread out over the flat Mesopotamian planes.
Yes, there were massive and violent rainstorms at this time. During the Holocene Climate Optimum (9K to 6K years ago) climate created an era of intense rainfall over the region. The Indian Summer Monsoon grew and shifted west across the Arabian Peninsula into Mesopotamia–downpours hammering the Taurus mountains and the TigrisEuphrates Rivers.
Steefen:
I can’t just say Younger Dryas. I have to say Early Holocene.
-
- The Environment: During the Younger Dryas (roughly 12,900 to 11,700 years ago), Mesopotamia wasn’t just cold; it became severely dry and arid.
- The Impact: The drought shrank natural food supplies, which scientists believe pushed early human hunter-gatherers in the region to begin cultivating wild grains—sparking the very earliest roots of agriculture.
- The Warming: Around 11,700 years ago, the Younger Dryas ended abruptly. Global temperatures surged, officially marking the start of the Holocene epoch.
- The Ice Melt: This warming melted the massive remaining ice sheets, but those glaciers were mostly in North America and Northern Europe, not Mesopotamia.
- The Floods: The melting ice caused global sea levels to rise dramatically. In Mesopotamia, this didn’t cause an immediate, catastrophic wall of water, but it did drastically alter the landscape over thousands of years. It filled up the Persian Gulf and created the lush, marshy river deltas of the Tigris and Euphrates, which later fed the world’s first great civilizations like Sumer.
= = = = = =
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- Tropical Plumes: This expansion pulled volatile, moisture-heavy tropical weather patterns straight from the Indian Ocean across the Arabian Peninsula and directly into Mesopotamia. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Torrential Summer Downpours: Instead of just getting mild winter rains, Mesopotamia was slammed with severe, uncharacteristic summer rainstorms. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
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- The Double Inundation: In the spring, when the winter mountain snow naturally melted, it was suddenly hit by these heavy, warm rainstorms. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
- Flash Floods: This caused the rivers to swell with catastrophic volume. Because the Mesopotamian plain is incredibly flat, the water could not drain quickly. A single massive storm upstream could send a violent wall of water rushing south, completely washing away early villages. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
“All the windstorms, exceedingly powerful, attacked as one, at the same time, the flood swept over the cult-centers… For seven days and seven nights, the flood had swept over the land, and the huge boat had been tossed about by the windstorms on the great waters.” [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
While there have certainly been devastating environmental catastrophies in the past, that’s not what Noah’s Flood is all about. There it’s not simply a matter of rising waters and storms. The waters of Primordial Chaos are released through the Firmament and the disk of the Earth is covered in an Uncreation of the World. This is Myth. Not History.
Robert said
Steefen said
Two Intrigues About Noah’s Flood
September 5, 2026
by Bart Ehrman
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Comment:
Bart:
“… it is physically impossible for a flood to cover the earth, and, as it turns out,there is no geological evidence for any such thing.”
Steve:
Not quite: …Correct me if I’m mistaken, but none of the flood examples you go on the to describe people provide geological evidence that any one flood covered the entire earth. Correct?
What?
Maybe you’re saying this:
None of the flood examples described provide geological evidence that a flood covered the entire earth.
The comment is Not Quite, therefore I am already saying the entire earth was not covered BUT there is geological evidence for significant flooding.
What is important is that there have been global ice melting (ice ages) and rising of seas.
To the extent literature was written about cities, not neighborhoods, being destroyed at a time when there were no trucks or airplanes, literature could have been written about local gods destroying localities which seemed to be the whole world to an individual.
If Atrahasis was in Mesopotamia, I wouldn’t think South Africa and Patagonia, South America would experience the same rain.
There is no geological evidence for ANY such a thing?
ANY such a thing? That is incorrect. How about flooding and rain that has required large boats, flooding that have destroyed one or more cities that someone’s whole world was gone. Yes, there has been [any] such a thing with geological evidence.
I’ve seen maps of southern Europe underwater.
I know there have been Ice Ages that have melted.
I know there have been archaeological digs of flooded areas.
Turkey to Mesopotamia to India is a long stretch since two climate events happened at the same time.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert