Shalom said
Hebrew 5:9 says Jesus (PBUH) is is τέλειος = “Muslim”.Hebrew 7:28 say Jesus (PBUH) is is τέλειος = “Muslim”.
Jesus turned away from Allah.
Jesus turned away from the God of Abraham.
Jesus turned away from the God of Moses.
Jesus turned away from submitting to God (being a Muslim).
Jesus rejected God/Allah and led people astray.
If you want to equate God with Allah, you are saying Jesus rejected Allah.
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Jesus is not God in the Gospel of John. Jesus is not even pro-Hebrew God in John. Jesus takes a destructive stance against God and the Jewish religion (relationship between Hebrew God and worshippers).
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But you must not eat meat with its lifeblood still in it.
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When You said, “Seek my face,” my heart said unto You, “Your face, Lord, I will seek.”
Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood—I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people. I have given the blood to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar…
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But whenever you wish, you may slaughter and eat meat within any of your gates, according to the blessing the LORD your God has given you. Those who are clean or unclean may eat it, as they would a gazelle or deer, but you must not eat the blood; pour it on the ground like water.
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53During the siege and hardship that your enemy will impose on you, you will eat the fruit of your womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters whom the LORD your God has given you. 54The most gentle and refined man among you will begrudge his brother, the wife he embraces, and the rest of his children who have survived, 55refusing to share with any of them the flesh of his children that he will eat because he has nothing left in the siege and hardship your enemy will impose on all your cities
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So they rushed greedily to the plunder, taking sheep, cattle, and calves. They slaughtered them on the ground and ate meat with the blood still in it. Then someone reported to Saul: “Look, the troops are sinning against the LORD by eating meat with the blood still in it.” …
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I will make this city a desolation and an object of scorn. All who pass by will be horrified, and will scoff because of all its wounds. I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another’s flesh in the siege and distress inflicted on them by their enemies who seek their lives.’
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Those slain by the sword are better off than those who die of hunger, who waste away, pierced with pain because the fields lack produce. 10The hands of compassionate women have cooked their own children, who became their food in the destruction of the daughter of my people. 11The LORD has exhausted His wrath; He has poured out His fierce anger; He has kindled a fire in Zion, and it has consumed her foundations.
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After All of the above Paul and Jesus DEFIANTLY said the following, knowing it was the theological and religious deal breaker, a sacrament of atheism and defeat.
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The Lord Jesus took bread and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said This is my body which is for you , do this in remembrance of me. In the same way, after supper, he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenent IN MY BLOOD, do this whenever you drink it in remembrance of me.”
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Live forever by eating the bread which is my flesh.
Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
Jesus said to them, I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man AND drink his blood, you have no life in you.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day.
My flesh is real food [not metaphorical food] and my blood is real drink [not metaphorical drink].
Disciples said: This is hard teaching. Who can accept this?
Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?”
From this time, many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
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Jesus’ rejection of God contaminates Christianity unless that his how Jesus saved us: Saved us from a God who did not help the Jews win the Battle of Galilee during the Jewish Revolt and from a God who did not help stop the destruction of Herod’s Temple.
If you translate “a Muslim” as one who is perfectly submitted to God, then Jesus was one. If you translate “a Muslim” as someone who follows the Quran or follows the Propet Mohamed of 622 CE, then I am not so sure. Are there instances of Jesus following instructions in the Quran that would obviously be Quran – esque? Does Jesus mention the Prophet then follow it up with a PBUH?
All I ask for is evidence that “a Muslim” in the New Testament means what “a Muslim” means in today’s time period.
FocusMyView said
If you translate “a Muslim” as one who is perfectly submitted to God, then Jesus was one. If you translate “a Muslim” as someone who follows the Quran or follows the Propet Mohamed of 622 CE, then I am not so sure. Are there instances of Jesus following instructions in the Quran that would obviously be Quran – esque? Does Jesus mention the Prophet then follow it up with a PBUH?
All I ask for is evidence that “a Muslim” in the New Testament means what “a Muslim” means in today’s time period.
That is a good question.
I do not know the answer.
But one of the title of Jesus (PBUH) according to “Christianity” is “Muhammed” (Song of Solomon 5:16)
The Old Testament is called “Qara/Miqra” which is the root of the word “Quran”.
“Christians” misinterpreting Song of Solomon is a basis for what, exactly? Clearly an erotic poem in a region with many other examples of eroticism in poetry. See the Ugarit poetry about Addammu and the snake. It has some of the same imagery of knocking on doors that the woman opens for the man.
I am not seeing the point of your repetition. That the Bible says that Jesus is submissive to God does not surprise anyone.
Perhpas what is confusing you is your using two or three different languages to achieve a desired effect. You are using the translation of “submissive to God” to refer to a group of people that follow the Quran and the Prophet. Jesus clearly did neither. So he was not a Muslim in the post 622 sense.
Clearly, any writing that says a person was submissive to God could be properly translated to Muslim, no? Many would say Donald Trump is submissive to God. Does that mean they are saying he is a Muslim?
Of course some people are more open to what being a Muslim means. If an aborigine from Australia submits himself to the Creator, is he a Muslim?
FocusMyView said
I am not seeing the point of your repetition. That the Bible says that Jesus is submissive to God does not surprise anyone.
Perhpas what is confusing you is your using two or three different languages to achieve a desired effect. You are using the translation of “submissive to God” to refer to a group of people that follow the Quran and the Prophet. Jesus clearly did neither. So he was not a Muslim in the post 622 sense.
Clearly, any writing that says a person was submissive to God could be properly translated to Muslim, no? Many would say Donald Trump is submissive to God. Does that mean they are saying he is a Muslim?
Of course some people are more open to what being a Muslim means. If an aborigine from Australia submits himself to the Creator, is he a Muslim?
How is Jesus (PBUH) not “Muslim” in post 622 sense?
1) If Jesus (PBUH) followed Old Testament he said G-d is “One”. (Sahada in Hebrew and Arabic)
2) Jesus (PBUH) Prayed to G-d (Saleat in Hebrew and Arabic)
3) Jesus (PBUH) went to JeruSalem for Hajj (Hajj in Arabic and Hebrew.).
4) Jesus (PBUH) fast. (Sawm in Hebrew and Arabic)
5)Jesus (PBUH) ask people to give Charity (Zakat in Hebrew and Arabic)
All of the 5 pillar of Islam are Hebrew/Arabic words and ar in the Bible.
Stephen said
Personally I think Mohammad was a Christian.(Now we’ll see how much of a sense of humor Prof Ehrman’s Muslim fanbase has I guess.)
The word “Christian” is a made up word. It does not translates to any Hebrew word directly. In Old Testament you will not find a word which can be translate to “Christian”. Also the word “Christianity” does not exist in the Whole Bible.
“Muslim” is a Hebrew/Arabic word used in Old Testament. Also Greek Teleios translates to “Salem” and “Muslim”.
FocusMyView said
All words are made up. Palestinian is a made up word, for example. they are people that lived in Palestine. Christians are people that followed the Christ.
All words are made up (am I becoming repetitive now too?)
By “Made up” I mean not the vocabulary of a Torah observing Jew. The word “Muslim” is in the Old Testament and it is part of Biblical Hebrew vocabulary.
Even the word “Catholic” can be consider as part of the Biblical vocabulary.
The word “Catholic” is older then the word “Christian” or “Christianity”.
Shalom said
You should know better. That Yiddish and Biblical Hebrew are not same. You comment is foolish and you know that.
Yiddish is partly derived from Biblical Hebrew, as you certainly should know. Aramaic was not a uniquely Jewish language (probably the majority of people who spoke it were not Jewish), but it was the language Jesus and his disciples spoke in daily life. We can’t really be sure any of them knew Hebrew, though I think Jesus perhaps could read Hebrew scripture to some extent.
Yes, I was joking, but on the square. It’s foolish to think you can find all the answers you seek by looking at similarities between words from languages that all came from the same part of the globe. Of course there are similarities. And they have meanings. Probably not the meanings you’re trying to create here.
godspell said
Yiddish is partly derived from Biblical Hebrew, as you certainly should know. Aramaic was not a uniquely Jewish language (probably the majority of people who spoke it were not Jewish), but it was the language Jesus and his disciples spoke in daily life. We can’t really be sure any of them knew Hebrew, though I think Jesus perhaps could read Hebrew scripture to some extent.
Yes, I was joking, but on the square. It’s foolish to think you can find all the answers you seek by looking at similarities between words from languages that all came from the same part of the globe. Of course there are similarities. And they have meanings. Probably not the meanings you’re trying to create here.
Do you think ‘meshugganah’ is Biblical Hebrew? Is it Aramaic?
Are you serious?
You know I am not making thing up. I am sure you know what is Biblical Hebrew and what is not. Still you are making comments like this. Trying to imply that ‘meshugganah is Biblical Hebrew.
I can show you links of Christian Evangelist who say “Allah u Akbar” in the Bible means “Allah is mouse”. Because in Hebrew Bible “Akbar” is “Mouse”.
It is not how the words sound. It is how the words are spelled.
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It looks like you know Hebrew, so I do not expect to mislead using the same tactics.
The Evangelist who wants to mislead people who do not know Hebrew are Successful in doing this.
Bible has a phrase similar to “Allah u Akbar” in Job 36:5. It means “Allah u Akbar” in Arabic.
But even the translators of Bible in Arabic are also misleading people in Job 36:5.
The should translate אֵ֣ל כַּ֭בִּיר in Job 36:5 to “Allah u Akbar”. But they translates it to الله عزيز (Allah u Aziz) which is misleading.
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