Francesco Carotta, author of Jesus was Caesar, asked his readers to look at Julius Caesar and Jesus.
Paul George, author of On Christian Origins, asked his readers to look at Cicero and Jesus.
With the books I have on Cicero, out of storage, I can get started on the request by Paul George, author of On Christian Origins.
On this pass, I will look at some of the items on the list.
Appendix 3, Section 3 Cicero and Jesus, Table 6: Ciceronian ideas adopted by the gospel writers
1 Theme: True Law
Cicero Reference: De re publica (on the Republic), book 3.22
Gospel Reference: Matthew 5: 18
2 Theme: True Glory
Cicero Reference: On duties, Book 2.43
Gospel Reference: Matthew 6: 28-29
3 Theme: True Worship
Cicero Reference: De natura deorum (on the nature of the gods), Book 2.28
New Testament Reference: Matthew 15: 7-9
4 Theme: The Universe is God’s Temple
Cicero: Scipio’s Dream, 15
New Testament Reference: Acts 17: 24-25
5 Theme: A place in heaven reserved for the righteous
Cicero Reference: Scipio’s Dream, 5 and Scipio’s Dream, 15
Gospel Reference: Matthew 5: 3, 10, 12
6 Theme: Marriage
Cicero Reference: De finibus bonorum et malorum (“On the ends of good and evil) Book 4.17
Gospel Reference: Matthew 19: 6-9
7 Theme: God does not require costly sacrifices
Cicero Reference: De legibus (on laws), Book 2
New Testament Reference: Luke 21: 1-3
= = =
Paul George has a Master’s Degree in Education (ESL) from Edith Cowan University in Perth, Western Australia. He has also studied Psychology, Philosophy, Critical Thinking, Ancient Roman and Greek History, Koine Greek, Early Church History and New Testament Studies at a tertiary level. He was a member of a fundamentalist Christian sect as an adolescent and young adult, and with the other members of the sect expected the second coming of the Messiah in the late 1960s and 70s. He also witnessed the sect’s response to the failed predictions. He lives in Perth, Australia.
= = =
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
Well, Paul George, you studied Critical Thinking and I have at least had a refresher course in Argumentation: The Study of Effective Reasoning, 2nd Edition with Professor David Zarefsky of Northwestern University (which rivals Ivy League universities in academic prestige), I hope the seven themes I have numbered above support your resolution sufficiently for me to judge in your favor.
If not, the value of this thread will be that I have done some extra reading of Cicero and some extra reading of Matthew, Luke, and Acts on themes that are important to people who have carefully read gospels of Matthew and Luke and Acts of the Apostles.
1 Theme: True Law
Cicero Reference: De re publica (on the Republic), book 3.22
Gospel Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Cicero
True law is right reason in agreement with nature, it is of universal application, unchanging and everlasting; it summons to duty by its commands, and averts from wrongdoing by its prohibitions.
And it does not lay its commands or prohibitions upon good men in vain,
though neither have any effect on the wicked.
It is a sin to try to alter this law, nor is it allowable to attempt to repeal any part of it, and it is impossible to abolish it entirely.
We cannot be freed from its obligations by senate or people,
and we need not look outside ourselves for an expounder or interpreter of it.
And there will not be different laws at Rome and at Athens, or different laws now and in the future, but one eternal and unchangeable law will be valid for all nations and all times, and there will be one master and ruler,
that is, God, over us all, for he is the author of this law, its promulgator, and its enforcing judge.
Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature, and by reason of this very fact he will suffer the worst penalties, even if he escapes what is commonly considered punishment. . . .
Gospel of Matthew 5: 18
17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.
18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
2 Theme: True Glory
Cicero Reference: On duties, Book 2.43
Gospel Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Cicero
[43] And yet, as Socrates used to express it so admirably, “the nearest ** you do not have permission to see this link ** way to glory—a short cut, as it were—is to
strive to be what you wish to be thought to be.”
For if anyone thinks that he can win lasting glory by pretence, by empty show, by hypocritical talk and looks, he is very much mistaken.
True glory strikes [p. 213] deep root and spreads its branches wide; but all pretences soon fall to the ground like fragile flowers, and nothing counterfeit can be lasting.
There are very many witnesses to both facts; but, for brevity’s sake, I shall confine myself to one family: Tiberius Gracchus, Publius’s son, will be held in honour as long as the memory of Rome shall endure; but his sons were not approved by patriots while they lived, and since they are dead they are numbered among those whose murder was justifiable.
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus, (born 169–164? bce—died June 133 bce, Rome), Roman tribune (133 bce) who sponsored agrarian reforms to restore the class of small independent farmers
Gospel of Matthew 6: 28-29
26 Look at the birds of the air: They do not sow or reap or gather into barns—and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
27 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?
28 And why do you worry about clothes? Consider how the lilies of the field grow: They do not labor or spin.
29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his glory was adorned like one of these. [Pretenses fall.]
30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
31 Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’
32 For the Gentiles strive after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.
Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness…
Matthew 25: 40 (see verses 35-39)
And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’ – Jesus
Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus, (born 169–164? bce—died June 133 bce, Rome), Roman tribune (133 bce) who sponsored agrarian reforms
to restore the class of small independent farmers and who was assassinated [gave his life] in a riot sparked by his senatorial opponents.
He will be held in honor. – Cicero
3 Theme: True Worship
Cicero Reference: De natura deorum (on the nature of the gods), Book 2.28
New Testament Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Cicero
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Book 2, 12/28 shows Cicero being a naturalist (heart far away from a supernatural God, heart close to the precepts of men)
Book 2, 28/60 shows Cicero being a naturalist. Chrysippus, distinguished writer on divination, Cicero claims also would look for natural explanations. Cicero admits there are diviners and interpreters of portents, but nature rarely if every produces a sage. Cicero says there is no such thing as a portent.
portent: a sign or warning that something, especially something momentous or calamitous, is likely to happen.
Diviners, do not look for signs from the divine gods.
Matthew 15: 7-9
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you:
8 ‘These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me.
9 They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’ ”
= = =
Steve Campbell, scored five out of five stars for editing his book Historical Accuracy
What prompted me to add Carotta’s work in my work was I did not like the editing in Carotta’s book.
What is prompting me to add George’s work in the second edition of my work is that I do not like the editing in George’s book. Paul George, himself, needs to explain the common themes between Cicero and the New Testament–not just list the common themes.
I will have to look elsewhere in his book to see what prompted him to add in an appendix, Table 6, ideas of Cicero adopted by gospel writers.
By calling the theme “true worship,” a reader could expect commonalities of Cicero and the New Testament on true worship as opposed to people not really believing the divine being able to communicate by way of signs.
4 Theme: The Universe is God’s Temple
Cicero: Scipio’s Dream, 15
New Testament Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Cicero
[Africanus appears to Sciplio.]
** you do not have permission to see this link **
I now saw my dead father, Paullus, approaching, and I burst into tears. My father put his arms around me and kissed me, telling me not to weep. When, with effort, I held back my tears, I managed to say, “Since this, my dear father, is the true life, as Africanus declares, why must I remain on earth? Why can I not join you?”
“That cannot be,” my father replied, “for unless God, who rules all you see around you here, frees you from your confinement in the body, you cannot gain entrance to this paradise. You see, humans are brought into existence in order to inhabit the earth, which is at the center of this holy place, this paradise. They have been given souls made out of the undying fire which make up stars and constellations, consisting of spherical bodies animated by the divine mind, each moving with marvelous speed, each in its own orbit and cycle It is destined that you and other righteous men suffer your souls to be imprisoned with your bodies; you may not abandon life except when commanded by the Supreme God who bestowed it on you. Otherwise, you will have failed your duty, the duty which you, like every other human being, were meant to fulfill.
Humanity continues to degenerate.
“That which is always in motion is eternal. However, that which communicates motion to some other thing but is itself moved by some other force, must necessarily cease to exist once this outside motion has ceased. Therefore, the only thing that never ceases to move is that which has the power to create motion on its own, for it can continue to move eternally because its power to achieve motion depends on itself alone. This is the source and the first principle of motion for all things that move. Being the first principle, it has no beginning. For since the first principle is the origin of everything else, it cannot have an origin itself.
Acts 17
24 The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands.
25 Nor is He served by human hands, as if He needed anything, because He Himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else.
On the Dream of Scipio, from Cicero’s Republic (51 BC)
** you do not have permission to see this link **
I will probably have to see the Loeb collection of the works of Cicero.
= = =
5 Theme: A place in heaven reserved for the righteous
Cicero Reference: Scipio’s Dream, 5 and Scipio’s Dream, 15
Gospel Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Cicero
“Do upon earth as your grandfather did. Do as I have done, your father. Love justice and devotion. These are owed to both your parents and kinsmen; but more than anything else, they are owed to your country. Such is the life that leads to heaven…
“Concerning yourself, never lose hope that you might come back here one day. For this is the place which offers great and magnificent men their true reward, for all fame or glory you win among mere human beings should simply be ignored, since such fame and glory can scarcely be said to be eternal if it cannot last one Great Year. Fix your gaze upwards, then! Think on this place, a dwelling place for all eternity!
When he ceased speaking, I shouted my agreement. “Even as a boy, I exerted myself with every fiber of my being to follow your example and the example of my father. I intended never to be unworthy of your reputation. If there is really a path leading to heaven for those who selflessly serve their country, the knowledge of this goal will inspire me to redouble my efforts!”
“Strive on,” he answered, “secure in the knowledge that only your body is mortal and that your true self endures forever. The man you appear to be is not yourself at all, for your real self is not that corporeal, palpable, changing form you see, but the spirit inside.
“Use this everlasting force, then, for the most resplendent deeds possible! And remember that the most splendid deeds you can do are those which serve your country. Those souls devoted to such deeds will find it easy to wing their way to this place, which is the true and genuine home for human souls. The soul’s flight will be all the more quick if, during the period of confinement within the body, this soul has contemplatively roamed widely, thinking on what lies outside itself, and has contrived ways to detach itself from the body as much as possible. When one has failed to do this, and has abandoned the soul to bodily indulgence and enslaved it to the body, allowing those passions which are bonded to pleasure to persuade the soul to flout the laws of gods and men, this soul, after departing from the body, can only hover weakly above the earth. Nor does it return to its proper place in the heavens until it has suffered many ages of torment.”
gospel of Matthew 5:
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets before you.
1 Theme: True Law
Cicero Reference: De re publica (on the Republic), book 3.22
Gospel Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
2 Theme: True Glory
Cicero Reference: On duties, Book 2.43
Gospel Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
3 Theme: True Worship
Cicero Reference: De natura deorum (on the nature of the gods), Book 2.28
New Testament Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
4 Theme: The Universe is God’s Temple
Cicero: Scipio’s Dream, 15
New Testament Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
5 Theme: A place in heaven reserved for the righteous
Cicero Reference: Scipio’s Dream, 5 and Scipio’s Dream, 15
Gospel Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
6 Theme: Marriage
Cicero Reference: De finibus bonorum et malorum (“On the ends of good and evil) Book 4.17
Gospel Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
7 Theme: God does not require costly sacrifices
Cicero Reference: De legibus (on laws), Book 2
New Testament Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
= = =
8 Theme: Riches
Cicero Reference: De officiis (on duties) Book 2.56
New Testament Reference: Matthew 19: 23-25
9 Theme: The Duty to Invest
Cicero Reference: De officis (on duties) Book 2.87
New Testament Reference: Matthew 25: 20-21, 27
10 Theme: Charity
Cicero Reference: De officiis (on duties) Book 1.52
New Testament Reference: Matthew 5: 42
11 Theme: Jewish Religion Condemned
Cicero Reference: Pro Flacco (in defense of Lucius Valerius Flaccus for extortion) 67
New Testament Reference: Matthew 23: 13-33
= = =
Souls are immortal was seen in Scipio’s dream but Paul George lists De legibus (on laws) Book 2 and compares that w/ Luke 16: 19-31.
1
Cicero
Love justice and devotion. Such is the life that leads to [this paradise] heaven.
The most splendid deeds you can do are those which serve your country. Those souls devoted to such deeds will find it easy to wing their way to this place which is the true and genuine home for human souls.
– Scipio’s Dream
Jesus
Those who are persecuted for righteousness [justice] will have the kingdom of heaven.
– Matthew 5: 10
2
Cicero
I saw my dead father approaching. I burst into tears. Why can I not join you?
“That cannot be,” my father replied, “for unless God, who rules all you see around you here, frees you from your confinement in the body, you cannot gain entrance to this paradise. … It is destined that you and other righteous men suffer your souls to be imprisoned with your bodies; you may not abandon life except when commanded by the Supreme God who bestowed it on you. Otherwise, you will have failed your duty, the duty which you, like every other human being, were meant to fulfill. … “Concerning yourself, never lose hope that you might come back here one day. For this is the place which offers great and magnificent men their true reward. … Only your body is mortal, your true self endures forever. The man you appear to be is not yourself at all, for your real self is not that corporeal, palpable, changing form you see, but the spirit inside.
– Scipio’s Dream
= = =
3
Matthew 25
Verse 46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Cicero, “Scipio’s Dream”
When one has abandoned the soul to bodily indulgences and passions, that soul does not return to its proper place in the heavens until it has suffered many ages of torment.
Those who rule their spirit are better than those who take a city (Proverbs 16:32).
Scipio’s Dream by Cicero informs us about some of the things Jesus, later, wanted his followers to know:
- Love justice (righteousness) and have the kingdom of heaven.
- Goal: make it to heaven.
- Dishonoring the soul in this life leads to suffering and torment in the afterlife
= = =
Dr. Ehrman,
Paul George, an author, wanted his readers to explore ideas of Cicero.
Scipio’s Dream by Cicero informs us about some of the things Jesus, later, wanted his followers to know:
- Love justice (righteousness) and have the kingdom of heaven.
- Goal: make it to heaven.
- Dishonoring the soul in this life leads to suffering and torment in the afterlife
Love justice and devotion. Such is the life that leads to [this paradise] heaven. The most splendid deeds you can do are those which serve your country. Those souls devoted to such deeds will find it easy to wing their way to this place which is the true and genuine home for human souls.
– Cicero, “Scipio’s Dream”
Did Scipio’s Dream make it into your history of the afterlife, your book, Heaven and Hell?
Steve Campbell, Author of Historical Accuracy
Dr. Ehrman,
Paul George, an author, wanted his readers to explore ideas of Cicero.
Scipio’s Dream by Cicero informs us about some of the things Jesus, later, wanted his followers to know:
- Love justice (righteousness) and have the kingdom of heaven.
- Goal: make it to heaven.
- Dishonoring the soul in this life leads to suffering and torment in the afterlife
Love justice and devotion. Such is the life that leads to [this paradise] heaven. The most splendid deeds you can do are those which serve your country. Those souls devoted to such deeds will find it easy to wing their way to this place which is the true and genuine home for human souls.
– Cicero, “Scipio’s Dream”
Did Scipio’s Dream make it into your history of the afterlife, your book, Heaven and Hell?
Dr. Bart D. Ehrman, Author of Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife
I was going to devote a section to it, but in the end decided it would be a bit too complicated, since I would have to explain the whole thing. It only made it into a footnote in my longer book Journeys to Heaven and Hell. But it’s a *terrific* and important work; doesn’t take long to read but is very interesting.
keywords=bart+d.+ehrman+journeys+to+heaven+and+hell&qid=1658639041&sprefix=ehrman+Journey+to+and+heaven%2Caps%2C62&sr=8-1
In the April 5, 2022 book Journeys to Heaven and Hell, acclaimed author Bart Ehrman contextualizes early Christian narratives of heaven and hell within the broader intellectual and cultural worlds from which they emerged. … [A]ncient tours of the afterlife promoted reflection on matters of ethics, faith, ambition, and life’s meaning, the fruit of which has been codified into Christian belief today.
– from the amazon.com description of the book
Shouldering biblical scholarship like a camcorder, Carrère re-creates the climate of the New Testament with the acumen of a seasoned storyteller, intertwining his own account of reckoning with the central tenets of the faith with the lives of the first Christians. Carrère puts himself in the shoes of Saint Paul and above all Saint Luke, charting Luke’s encounter with the marginal Jewish sect that eventually became Christianity, and retracing his investigation of its founder, an obscure religious freak who died under notorious circumstances.
Boldly blending scholarship with speculation, memoir with journalistic muckraking, Carrère sets out on a headlong chase through the latter part of the Bible, drawing out protagonists who believed they were caught up in the most important events of their time. An expansive and clever meditation on belief, The Kingdom chronicles the advent of a religion, and the ongoing quest to find a place within it.
Paul George, himself, needs to explain the common themes between Cicero and the New Testament–not just list the common themes.
I checked. He does. I will have to buy the book a second time, this time as a paperback and see the arguments he puts forward.
Paul George
I have listed in the Appendix 24 examples of teachings which are common to both the gospels and Cicero.
In the 19th Century, novelist Anthony Trollope made the following observation.
“I remember no passage in Livy or Tacitus indicating a religious belief. But with Cicero my mind is full of such; and they are of a nature to make me feel that had he lived a hundred years later, I should have suspected him of some hidden knowledge of Christ’s teachings.“
Steefen
But it was the other way around: the Greco-Roman gospel authors had some knowledge of Julius Caesar, Augustus Caesar, Cicero, and Virgil.
6 Theme: Marriage
Cicero Reference: De finibus bonorum et malorum (“On the ends of good and evil) Book 4.17
Gospel Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
I will have to go to the library for a printed book for this one. I’m not finding it.
7 Theme: God does not require costly sacrifices
Cicero Reference: De legibus (on laws), Book 2
New Testament Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Cicero, On Laws, Book 2.8
** you do not have permission to see this link **
8. Quintus: Such are the following:
—Let men approach the gods with purity
—let men appear before them in the spirit of devotion
—let men remove riches from their temples; whoever does otherwise shall suffer the vengeance of heaven …
let men preserve the customs of their fathers and of their family
—let the gods who have been accounted celestial be worshiped, and those likewise who have merited celestial honors by their illustrious actions, such as Hercules, Bacchus, Aesculapius, Castor, Pollux, and Quirinus.
Let due honor be likewise paid to those virtues, by which man is exalted to heaven—as Intelligence, Valor, Piety, Fidelity; and let temples be consecrated to their honor
—with regard to the vices, let no sacred sacrifices be paid to them.
I am not persuaded by this, especially in comparison to Luke 21: 1-3.
= = =
8 Theme: Riches
Cicero Reference: De officiis (on duties) Book 2.56
New Testament Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Cicero
** you do not have permission to see this link **
[56]
The generous, on the other hand, are those who employ their own means to ransom captives from brigands, or who assume their friends’ debts or help in providing dowries for their daughters, or assist them in acquiring property or increasing what they have.
And so I wonder what Theophrastus could have been thinking about when he wrote his book on “Wealth.” It contains much that is fine; but his position is absurd, when he praises at great length the magnificent appointments of the popular games, and it is in the means for indulging in such expenditures that he finds the highest privilege of wealth. But to me the privilege it gives for the exercise of generosity, of which I have given a few illustrations, seems far higher and far more certain.
How much more true and pertinent are Aristotle’s words, as he rebukes us for not being amazed at this extravagant waste of money, all to win the favour of [p. 229] the populace. “If people in time of siege,” he says, “are required to pay a mina for a pint of water, this seems to us at first beyond belief, and all are amazed; but, when they think about it, they make allowances for it on the plea of necessity. But in the matter of this enormous waste and unlimited expenditure we are not very greatly astonished, and that, too, though by it no extreme need is relieved, no dignity is enhanced, and the very gratification of the populace is but for a brief, passing moment; such pleasure as it is, too, is confined to the most frivolous, and even in these the very memory of their enjoyment dies as soon as the moment of gratification is past.”
Gospel of Matthew
Chapter 19
21 Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven
24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
I am not persuaded by this argument:
Cicero: Sometimes the rich waste money.
Jesus: When you give money to the poor, the money is not being wasted: it creates treasure in heaven
11 Theme: Jewish Religion Condemned
Cicero Reference: Pro Flacco (in defense of Lucius Valerius Flaccus for extortion) 67
New Testament Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Cicero
** you do not have permission to see this link **
[67] As gold, under pretence of being given to the Jews, was accustomed every year to be exported out of Italy and all the provinces to Jerusalem, Flaccus issued an edict establishing a law that it should not be lawful for gold to be exported out of Asia. And who is there, O judges, who cannot honestly praise this measure? The senate had often decided, and when I was consul it came to a most solemn resolution that gold ought not to be exported. But to resist this barbarous superstition were an act of dignity, to despise the multitude of Jews, which at times was most unruly in the assemblies in defence of the interests of the republic, was an act of the greatest wisdom. “But Cnaeus Pompeius, after he had taken Jerusalem, though he was a conqueror, touched nothing which was in that temple.”
Gospel of Matthew
Chapter 23
13-33
16 Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’
17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes it sacred?
27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside, but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and every kind of impurity.
30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’
31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32 Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your fathers.
Steve Campbell, Argumentation Specialist
I am not persuaded by this argument:
Cicero condemns sending gold to Jerusalem and condemns the behavior of the multitude of Jews in Roman assemblies.
Jesus condemns Jews who value gold more than Temple.
Steve Campbell, Argumentation Specialist
So far, #2 (and my addition), #5,
#7, #8, and #11 raised by Paul George do not meet my standards.
#1 and #3 need work. #4 might work but I do not like it paired with the Acts passage.
TBD: #9 and #10
1 Maybe
2 Yes (and my addition)
3 Maybe
4 Maybe
5 Yes
6 TBD
7 No
8 No
9 TBD
10 TBD
11 No
(Homework: #6, complete #9 and #10)
However, Paul George says he has 24 pairs, not 11 pairs.
9 Theme: The Duty to Invest
Cicero Reference: De officis (on duties) Book 2.87
New Testament Reference: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Cicero
** you do not have permission to see this link **
[87] As for property, it is a duty to make money, but only by honourable means; it is a duty also to save it and increase it by care and thrift. These principles Xenophon, a pupil of Socrates, has set forth most happily in his book entitled “Oeconomicus.” When I was about your present age, I translated it from the Greek into Latin.
Jesus
Matthew Chapter 25 14-27 The Parable of the Talents
The Parable of the Talents
20 The servant who had received the five talents came and presented five more. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.’
21 His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Enter into the joy of your master!’
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
I agree with this set of common ideas between Cicero and, later, the historical fiction character Jesus by the Greco-Roman author/s of the gospel of Matthew.
= = =
1 Maybe
2 Yes (and my addition)
3 Maybe
4 Maybe
5 Yes
6 TBD
7 No
8 No
9 Yes
10 TBD
11 No
(Homework: #6, complete #10)
However, Paul George says he has 24 pairs, not 11 pairs.
Robert said
Stephen said
Steefen, have you considered ** you do not have permission to see this link **? Would explain a lot. Unfortunately the idea is better than the execution of it. Poorly written.
A very interesting take on the Eucharistic symbolism!
The comments are not topical to the thread.
Please move the bullying ridicule comments off this thread, comment 5 also.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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