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"Love the Lord YOUR God, not OUR God," could Jesus have inherited another God than Yahweh patrilineally?
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Serene

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January 20, 2025 - 6:00 pm

So Moses convinces everyone to start a new religion with a new God in a new place. “It’s ancestral, of course!” Could Jesus have introduced an earlier, ancestral God too?

Well, there’s this other god who became the Supreme God of the “world’s first power”, Ebla.

 

It’s Hayya/Ea/Enki: ** you do not have permission to see this link **

 

Ebla contains the first record of Aram, their unsettled countryside which is anachronistically Hellenized in the Bible as Aramaea—think Jacob being Aramaean in Deuteronomy. Ebla receives the Hayyi/Ea/Enki deity from its contact with Mesopotamian Nasoriyah. Narram-Sin’s Nasoriyah Stele marks a date of conquest 23rd C BCE, but contact probably started with peaceful Manistushu and earlier. 

Ea is the water absolution rite Creator God whose every story matches the Genesis Creator Of The Material World myths (matching *just him*, not all the other gods in the pantheon):

• separation of the world from water

• the no-rain region with misting springs that’s the birthplace of humanity, Eridu

•formation of man(kind) from dust in his anthropomorphic image – (that’s the distinction between Sumerian and other religions, their gods are anthropomorphic)

•the forbidden plant

•giving humanity and others their place in the heirarchy (like dominion over Earth)

•the Noah/Comforter flood story.

• His star, Canopus is a circumpolar star that marks his temple. One British astronomer, Patrick Moore argues this is Jesus’ star. Without even bringing up Ea. Because in favorable conditions, this Mesopotamian star can now be seen on the horizon in Palestine. Yes that’s what the Mesopotamians are doing with all this astrostuff, marking sacred places.

• He also has the power of three-day resurrection (it is he that retrieves Inanna from the underworld after three days), and that’s my point.

If Moses is bringing back the traditions of an unknown ancestral god cleverly and politely, why couldn’t Jesus? 

Ea/Enki, now Hayya (think Mandaean Hayyi), first enters an already rebirth-obsessed Ebla with his three-day resurrection myth. Instantly popular, people begin switching out their theophoric elements to his, which is YA. Just like in influential Atenism where they switch theophoric elements out. Ebla’s idyllic peace, prosperity, and democracy are the same time period away from First Century Palestine, as First Century Palestine is to us—around 2,000 years. 

Ea/Enki’s temples in Mesopotamia have running water basins for followers to purify. His symbol is the fish. Even the same type of fish people associate with Jesus.

In Ebla, this ritual becomes a special bath for the king. King having an SR biconsonantal root name for ruler, like Sargon (Sharu) of Akkad) not MLK, like malek. For the less fancy folk, there are river rituals, because this is a river entrepot. So, who else is a stand-out entrepot?

Fast forward to the First Century. Nabataea’s architecture is built around a resurrection rite with its central showcase of a biiiig pool. The royal household god is Dushara. Hayya could be the god OF Shara if DuShara means “Of the Ruler”, which like you know, IT IS the royal household god.

And not just God of the Shara mountains, because all these mountains are named for gods anyway. Mount Nebo. Mount Sinai. Mount Sharu could be named for deified Sargon of Akkad or any deified sharu.

So could Moses reviving what he recounts as an ancestral religion in a new package be prefacing Jesus reviving an ancestral religion as a new package?

Ya Saves, not Yah Saves with an H

 

Double theophorics — Elijah the name has two theophoric elements because one god became a generic role as God (El). Similarly, Savior Shed was a newly created deity in the post-Amarna period by the least-enfranchised. A bunch of new “Saves” type theonyms suddenly appear. Then, these easily swap in new theophoric elements.

Savior/Shed combines Canaanite Resheph and Egyptian young/prince Horus (shepherd role). Resheph goes back to Eblaite times. This syncretic deity saves people from the crazy chaos of the immediate post-Amarna period by  keeping them safe in the desert. Where they are presumably traveling?  

Back to the First Century where Jesus is saying he’s the Bright Morning Star. As I’ve said elsewhere, unless Jesus is carrying a purse, that is Ashtar, the El of the East in pre-Islamic Arabia. The East is Henotheistic. Ashtar is first found in Ebla, afaik.

Jesus’s Queen of Galilee is from pre-Islamic Arabia, Phaesalis. And her ancestor is deified as Obodas the God.

Inscriptions to him get most popular in the First Century, and are found in what’s now Israel. His  inscriptions thank him for healing them (artwork of medicinal plants is all over Petra), but at least one scholar believes resurrection/reincarnation is added to his list of powers.

If Ea/Enki/Hayyi’s resurrection/rebirth/reincarnation  power expands into a healing one, then Obodas could possibly have been acting according to being a living manifestation of  The God of The Ruler. Unnamed in a reverential way, using the role names that pre-Islamic Arabians loved to do, but hey, maybe they are now secret names with all the power of Ea/Enki/Hayyi (Ya no H) and I’ve just said them all out loud!! Could be why there’s so many water symbols in Petra in the middle of the desert. Could be why Nabataea rivaled Rome as a shipping power on the water.

Petra’s name is supposedly “Red Rock” as it’s native pre-Islamic Arabian name. Hmm, there’s a White Rock in Revelation. And “no more sun beating down on people”. Like OK Jesus. Well, the original Ebla’s name meant “White Rock”. It was a fantastically wealthy and peaceful city, now it isn’t, commerce has moved.  

Petra is fantastically wealthy and peaceful, now it isn’t, commerce has moved north and they leave 106 BCE. But their Abgarid kingdom north is right over an enormous early 2nd C underground Christian city, built out of the same kind of limestone as Ebla, White Rock, and housing up to 70,000.

 

“The Ebla Controversy”, just to add if anyone comes across it, is that Isaiah, Abaram, David, and more — they found all these ancestral names at Ebla but no Yahweh, no circumcision, no pig proscription, no aniconism, no monolatry, no Lord God of Armies—nothing that’s EGYPTIAN first. Their top of the pantheon deity is Hayyi until the Amorites take over. Research into Ebla has paused because Syria needs its space right now.

EDIT: Turns out Nabataean Osroene and Ebla are the SAME WHITE ROCK!! Their kingdom regions overlap, though separated by about a millennia and a half. So when *digging* out their up-to 70,000 person underground Christian city —because Nabataeans were the rulers of the area that’s now Midyat in the early 2nd C, and that’s what it’s dated to— they would naturally find artifacts.

 

Nabonidus was the first to display found artifacts. I think he’s likely to be a founder of the Nab-ataeans. Also found an Eblaite word in Mandaean, I think they are the preservers of an Eblaite revival, the Mandaean cosmology Sumerian, and Sumerian is the writing system they used, not the Akkadian. They don’t worship astrally like the Sumerians do, though. And the idea of reincarnation is first found there, for royalty. There is no mourning protocol for the kings. When reading stories about Herod the Great wanting more mourners, I  wonder if it’s not in contrast to Jesus saying, “Let the dead bury their dead”, and Nabataean’s happy interaction with the afterlife.

 

Edit: Today’s Research.

1. Apparently Dushara WAS also called God of The Ruler (as well as Lord of the Mountain) lmaoooo. Even hellenized, he has the horned cap of a *Mesopotamian god*. He is noted as having an “extra-curly” beard (Mesopotamian god-coded). Sometimes he has lunar crescents with him, but that’s how Nabonidus portrays the other Mesopotamian gods with himself, as symbols.

 

2. the Druze definitely retain some original knowledge imo, and they believe Akhenaten is a major figure in their religion. They propose Yuya his gfather to have a Joseph ancestral name (Yuya has Semetic features, an unstandard burial with no arms crossed and no Osiris name, but DNA evidence shows his unusual genetic marker is HIGHEST IN DRUZE lmaooo. Again, it’s just predominantly Asiatic DNA in this family, this artwork attempts to exaggerate him as inclusive of all sorts of identities, but when you look at his recreation and DNA, hmm. The Egyptians were like over it. 

Edit Edit: Confirmed by several sources, Ea/Enki/Hayyi IS the healing god of Mesopotamia’s pantheon. So much so that the Babylonian word for physician is a Sumerian loanword. One of his myths is about eight pharmaceutical plants that he ingests which correlate to the spirits of eight parts of the body. Great mneumonic.

Mesopotamian physicians are called Water Somethings in relation to Ea/Enki/Hayyi, that is later interpreted as Water OR Oil somethings (imo distillation and anointing oils.) This system can separate a diagnostician role from applying the medicine -which is what I think Jesus’ disciples do when they anoint the unwell with oil that’s likely medicated. ** you do not have permission to see this link **

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Colin Milton

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January 22, 2025 - 11:11 pm

Joshua/Jesus Ιησους 23:11

The LXX Greek text I can see has “ημων” which is the Genitive Case plural of εγω. 1st person plural pronoun: we, us.

The LXX says “our”,

“your” would be the 2nd person Genitive case singular of συ

σου

σου is part of the name Joshua Ιησους

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Colin Milton

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January 23, 2025 - 12:10 am

Through a bizarre abstract; if one Iota is added as a prefix to the 1st person pronoun genitive case plural of εγω and moved to the second person pronoun genitive case plural and then “incorrectly” parsed back to the second person singular genitive case keeping the Iota and Eta ΙΗ Ιη and then the name is a third declension noun masculine gender nominative case ending suffix ; (a pluperfect verb sense process) the name Ιησους is derived. Joshua.

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Colin Milton

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January 23, 2025 - 12:15 am

The quantum physics mathematicians do things like that with the imaginary number “i”.

If one “i” is removed from the wall of equations the whole thing falls apart.

Not even one Iota can be removed.

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Serene

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January 23, 2025 - 2:33 pm

“Not even one iota can be removed.”

The oldest evidence of a code of law was found at ** you do not have permission to see this link **

** you do not have permission to see this link **.

The Law pre-exists Mosaic Law since Adam, right?

Adam(u) is a name original to just one place in the entire world —Ebla.  

And in the First Century CE, the Nabataean kingdom of Osroene existed over ancient Ebla. Ebla means “White Rock.” There’s white rock in Revelation, thiiiiiiink about it.

The early Second Century Christian city that was recently found underground – that housed up to 70,000 people – is in that same location of Nabataean Osroene and ancient Ebla, now modern Midyat. This Christian city would have been built under Nabataean authority, which exists until AD 214.  

** you do not have permission to see this link **

Completely absolutely coincidentally, or not, the Nabataean Abgarids are famous for being the first kingdom to consider making Christianity the national religion. The Nabataeans were world-class at digging, and that’s the key to their legendary running water infrastructure which still often exceeds modern infrastracture in the same area. Digging is how you come across artifacts of Ancient Law Law Law.

They recently found an entire underground complex at Petra using satellite imagery. And of course, there’s the very famous recent find of a group of 12+ laid to rest under The Khazneh. 

 

Jesus’ Queen was Nabataean, Phaesalis.

Per Josephus, Phaesalis had a long marriage with Herod Antipas, and their marital alliance is disrupted by the decision to then marry Herodias, the same marriage that John the Baptist protests.

Therapeutic running WATER – this theme is what Jesus, John the BAPTIST, Nabataea, Elijah, Ebla and the world’s first city, Eridu, have in common.

In Nabataea, the God of the Ruler oversees a pool and garden complex as the focus of the city center.  In Ebla, the rituals of therapeutic running water are the purview of the deity Hayya, The Living. This Living God again, is Ea who is originally named Enki in Sumerian.

“He who has ears let them hear” – what Enki bestows to kings is ¡estú.  In simple Sumerian, it just means “ear”, but loaned into Akkadian it becomes the word for wisdom, and in Ea’s application—knowledge. You know, like what Mandean and Gnosis means, “knowledge.” 

** you do not have permission to see this link **

Jesus is using ancient word roots and traditions that resonate only with those of the *correct lineage*, retrieving the lost sheep and separating the wheat from the chaff.

 

• The fish is The Living God’s symbol.

• The reed is the Living God’s plant. Matthew 27:29

• The Mesopotamian and Assyrian Substitute King Ritual, where a replacement is crowned and unalived during an eclipse (later in its implementation, the consequences to the criminal substitute are ameliorated as well), seem to stem from his three-day resurrection of Inanna by substituting another in her place.

 

 
 
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Serene

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January 23, 2025 - 3:02 pm

“Joshua/Jesus Ιησους 23:11

The LXX Greek text I can see has “ημων” which is the Genitive Case plural of εγω. 1st person plural pronoun: we, us.

The LXX says “our”,

“your” would be the 2nd person Genitive case singular of συ

σου

σου is part of the name Joshua Ιησους”

Since I don’t understand Hebrew and koine Greek grammar, and you just helpfully discussed it Colin, I gave your comment to Chat GPT and asked about its relationship to my post title, “Love the Lord YOUR God, not OUR God—could Jesus have inherited another god patrilineally other than Yahweh?” In this query I added Jesus’ discussion of Moses’s teachings as YOUR teachings, not OUR teachings, as well.

 

Chat GPT, abbreviated for brevity and clarity here:

“In the Gospels, Jesus generally refers to “the Lord your God” (second person) rather than “the Lord our God” (first person plural), particularly when he is quoting Hebrew scriptures or addressing individuals/groups in teaching contexts.

Here are examples for each case:

1.“The Lord your God”:

•When quoting the Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4-5), Jesus says, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind” (Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30, Luke 10:27).

Me: The ORIGINAL SHEMA is:

Deuteronomy 6:4:

“Hear, O Israel: The Lord OUR God, the Lord is one…”

 

Ok, let’s hear from SOLOMON:

“Blessed be the Lord OUR God…” 1 Kings 8:56

EZRA? Opinions?

“Blessed be you Oh Lord the God of Israel OUR God…” Nehemiah 9:5.

MOSES: “For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as the Lord OUR God…” Deuteronomy 4:7

 

Back to Chat GPT:

2.“What did Moses teach YOU” vs. “teach US”:

Jesus frequently says “you” rather than “us” when referring to Moses’ teachings. For example:

•In Mark 10:3, Jesus asks, “What did Moses command you?”

Regarding “Joshua/Jesus Ιησους” in LXX:

•In Joshua 23:11 LXX, Joshua indeed says, “Take heed therefore to yourselves, that you love the Lord your God (Κυριον τον Θεον υμων).” This uses the second person plural (“your”).

So your highlighting of Joshua is helpful Colin, because he parses OUR God and YOUR God. Could it be in this stage of henotheism that with mixed multitudes there’s a household god -no idols necessary – and the Supreme God that has the hegemony to settle them?

“The Lord OUR God also drove out before us all the peoples…” Joshua 24:18 ʻ

Back to me:

Only *specific people* get the OUR God with Jesus:

John 20:17

Jesus tells Mary Magdalene, “I am ascending to MY Father and YOUR Father, to MY God and YOUR God.”

(Again, I believe this denotes a Lord Father, Aretas in his high-altitude kingdom, and a God Father, imo Obodas the God, the ancestor that Aretas worships that peaks in popularity in what’s now Israel in the First Century.)

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Colin Milton

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January 23, 2025 - 5:50 pm

It might be because the Imperative Mood of Greek does not include the 1st first person pronoun. It only has the 2nd and 3rd person pronouns.

Why that is? I guess because we can’t really give legal commands and military orders to ourself.

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Serene

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January 24, 2025 - 2:44 pm

Moses the lawgiver gives law and commands in the Greek Septuagint for “OUR” God:

Deuteronomy 6:4-5 (Shema Yisrael):

“Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord…” 

And “Hear” uses the imperative tone. 

Jesus directly quotes the Shema in all four Gospels and switches the OUR to YOUR:

“You shall love the Lord your God…”

A quick word from Chat GPT on whether Jesus’ speech requires an “Imperative Tone and Moses’ doesn’t:

Does Greek Grammar Require This?

No, Greek grammar doesn’t demand the switch from “our” to “your” in imperative or legal statements. Moses used the imperative mode in the Septuagint (e.g., “Hear!”) and still said “our God”. This suggests the shift is intentional and stylistic rather than grammatical.

(The Greek copies over as symbol garbage.) 

Because of how ancient people did henotheism (henotheism being “no other God before me”) you had a Supreme God *and also* a household god of your fathers—and because the Bible authors anachronistically update names, my guess is that Moses is discussing the Supreme God of the hegemony *and also* a titulary deity, YAH.

 

Which is again, the norm in henotheism.

Notice how the Exodees are told to seek refuge at BAAL SAPHON? Notice how there is no BAAL hate in the Exodus?

BAAL SAPHON-EL is who the Egyptian God-Kings are representing themselves as in the Sinai. (At least Ramses II portrays himself as on a stelae, but he just has tons and tons of stelae, so chances are better for finding his in the desert imo.) BAAL SAPHON-EL swaps out location-specific SETH for Canaan’s Supreme God EL. Just like King Jacob (Anglicized) whose hypocoristic on his signet ring is just “Jacob” but his scarabs switch out the god name depending on location: Yaak-Baal, Jacob-El, and Jacob-Har.

 

Again, the Bible is imo, a record of Abraham’s lineage proclaiming We Love Our New Administration And Hate The Old One.

Abraham lives with his friemd Amorite Mamre and receives the Lord and his messengers in the Very Amorite Sacred Oak Grove. The 14th Amorite dynasty of God-Kings in Avaris, Egypt happen to have a Very Amorite Sacred Oak Grove and their title is Ruler of the Syrio-Canaanite Region The Whole Region No Exceptions (Retjenu).

Then they’re overthrown. Next phase in the Bible is we hate Amorites, and now we love this very Ramses II-coded Lord God of Armies In His Army Tent. His household god is Seth Baal, Baal Saphon-El, and maybe others. Then in the Judges period it’s hate Baal season.

Historically, the first Yah inscriptions arrive in the highlands circa Ramses II’s 13th C BCE. The first Yahweh full four-letter inscriptions arrive in the desert and not till the 8th Century. That happens to be the full-stop end of the Sethites and rise of Ha as Lord of Foreigners (think Habiru).

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Porphyry

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January 24, 2025 - 3:15 pm

Deuteronomy 6:4-5 (Shema Yisrael):

“Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord…”

And “Hear” uses the imperative tone.

Jesus directly quotes the Shema in all four Gospels and switches the OUR to YOUR:

“You shall love the Lord your God…”

But that is how the verse reads, I don’t see how Jesus changed it:

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD; [5] and you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.

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Serene

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January 24, 2025 - 3:32 pm

Thank you very much for that refinement, Porphyry! He doesn’t switch it as I said, he just won’t say the OUR word to the public.

Corrections are important because that is truly what has made my hypothesis cleaner and also led me down better rabbit holes.

 

It’s because he is converting them to a new religion. Remember, Hayya is God of Linguistic Cleverness among other traits—and Jesus better exemplifies that than a conqueror strongman, don’t you think?

So the first part of the Shema, “The Lord OUR God is One Lord” guess where else you find that phrasing, ‘God is One God’?

 

It’s just in one place, Egyptian syncretism, when you’re introducing the population to a new two-gods-become-one scenario like Atenism (Ra + Horus):

“You are the One God, who manifests in millions of forms.”

“Oh sole god beside whom there is no other!”

^ That’s the Hymn To The Aten that resembles Psalm 104.

 

Jesus is correcting them towards the Eblaites with Sumerian roots, the world’s first written history. The Eblaites are the first people to have posthumously deified kings, and the first to have a living, as in not-posthumously deified god-king emperor, the Akkadian Narram-Sin.

I’d bet money that Jesus’ God —who protocol would have named God, just like any person calls their deity God — is the God of The Ruler epithet in Nabataea, with the epithet Hayya meaning “The Living” in Ebla, and the Hayyi of the Persianized Mandaeans. Because the Ea/Enki of Mesopotamia becomes reserved just for the Eblaite elite (see the king’s big ass bath.)

 

And his representation on Earth would be Hellenized as Theandrios whose mountain is Mount Hermon. That’s where Jesus is transfigured:

** you do not have permission to see this link **.

A stelae and other representations for Theandrios are found for First-Century Nabataea: ** you do not have permission to see this link **

And according to an inscription, Theandrios is the same as the deified Rabbos (the -os being an exaltation suffix.) An Abgar installed one of the stelae or whatever of Theandrios, and that name Abgar only belongs to the Abgarid Dynasty, because Abgar could just be a role name like Ruler.

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Serene

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January 24, 2025 - 10:22 pm

Here we go y’all: An inscription dedicating an alter to THEANDRIOS, the well-attested “god-man” deity circa the time of Jesus’ birth.

Terminus post quem:0 CE
Terminus ante quem:0 CE

 

** you do not have permission to see this link **

It’s in the Nabataean Haran, like the East where they have the (checks the famous products list) frankincense and myrrh.

That’s the earliest date that I can find so far for this deity of Mount Hermon (again, the place where Jesus is transfigured.) 

The worshiper has a high-status Hellenicized name. THEANDRIOS is considered an Arabian deity. Arabians were quick to adopt Hellenicization (and every innovation.) And they also preferentially picked the sons of their handmaidens to rule the area of their matrilineage, I am not making this up.

The Nabataean Haran is the area of even ancienter Nabada, the semi-nomadic client state of Ebla (cool bonus Ebla story ** you do not have permission to see this link **.)

There’s a lot of climate change that happens over this period due to the Sahara oscillation and anthropogenic change/deforestation.

THEANDRIOS is also represented in betyl form (an aniconic block for worship.) This is interesting  because 4th C Epiphanius of Salamis, looking for the historical roots of Jesus (said by his peers to not be the brightest bulb, but who is at all times) conducted interviews in Nabataea where he was told that their god was born of a virgin, too (not a virgin forever, y’all, this is how ancient people determined paternity). 

He said the name of the revered mother was Cube, so scholars are like, “Do you know how betyls work?” 

** you do not have permission to see this link **

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Serene

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January 28, 2025 - 1:08 am

Another place where Our God is snipped out!

Luke 4:18-19 quoting Isaiah 61:1-2,
“and the day of vengeance of OUR God,” is missing from the original text.

Whenever Jesus quotes scripture he removes the OUR GOD part.

And the Lord’s Prayer, OUR Father is only for his disciples.

i’m open to hear why people think it’s the same God, since the character of God changes with each ballpark administration charge.

Jesus also flips Deuteronomy on it’s head which is attributed to Moses.   

Chat: “The Beatitudes as Reversals of Deuteronomic Expectations”

• In Deuteronomy 28, there is a long list of blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. Those who are faithful to God will receive blessings, including prosperity, health, victory over enemies, and fertility. Those who turn away from God will experience curses like disease, defeat, and oppression.

• Matthew 5:3-12 seems to turn these traditional blessings upside down. Jesus blesses those who are poor in spirit, meek, mourning, persecuted, etc., all of whom would likely be considered unblessed by the standards of Deuteronomy or the conventional wisdom of the time. For example:

• “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:3) contrasts with the Deuteronomic idea that prosperity and material wealth are signs of divine favor.

• “Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted” (Matthew 5:4) counters the idea that joy and success are signs of God’s blessing, while mourning is often seen as a sign of divine displeasure.

2. A Reversal of Social Expectations• The Beatitudes are not just spiritual declarations but also a challenge to the social hierarchies of the time. For example:

• “Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth” (Matthew 5:5) turns on its head the assumption that the powerful and aggressive will rule the world. The meek, who might be seen as weak or inferior, are promised the earth.” end chat

 

The MEEK are promised to rule the world—that’s in no way the warrior king messiah of Yahweh, but that’s exactly what all the ancient authors keep calling the kings of Nabataea of whom one’s daughter is Jesus’ Queen in Galilee.

These folks to whom First Century THEANDRIOS (God-Man) who is RABBOS is credited are much more powerful than the Jews by any standard, they just leverage their ultrawealth as soft power, and utilize marital alliances and clever means instead of fight.

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Porphyry

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January 28, 2025 - 9:54 am

Another place where Our God is snipped out! Luke 4:18-19 quoting Isaiah 61:1-2, “and the day of vengeance of OUR God,” is missing from the original text.

I think Lk 4:18-19 is quoting Is 61:1-2 as it appears in the Greek translation of Isaiah, and in the ** you do not have permission to see this link ** “our God” is not in the text of verse 2.

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Serene

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January 29, 2025 - 6:57 pm

Hi Porphyry! I really appreciate the double-checking. I notice that everyone commenting on the forums here has some specialty, and it really helps me look for holes in or clean up my hypothesis!

 

In every LLX Septuagint website and translation that I can find, Isaiah 61:2 DOES have the OUR God that the Masoretic text has:

** you do not have permission to see this link **

 

“And the day of vengeance of our God”

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Porphyry

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January 29, 2025 - 7:07 pm

I’m looking at the link you shared, and I don’t see “our god” in the Greek.

I do see it in some of the translations, but those follow the MT rather than the LXX.

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Serene

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January 29, 2025 - 7:38 pm

Great find Porphyry! I just reviewed with Chat GPT and it says these dumb websites are using the Masoretic  text and slapping Septuagint LLX on top of it, uggh.

 

What this may mean may be a great rabbit hole! It’s the God-King Ptolemy Philadelphus II who commissioned the Septuagint. Unless I’m living on a different planet, whoever commissions the text massages the narrative.

 

He deifies himself while living, and he’s a close ally of the Nabataeans (who are again that sort of middle layer of confederated government, the taxer of inter-whatever commerce.)

 

I will look to see if any other use of Our God in the Hebrew Bible Septuagint LLC is snipped out when it’s a type of retributive or conqueror role that would not be in harmony to a more free-will, confederated type of Ptolemaic offer. I will have Chat GPT double-check the og Greek.

 

My entire hypothesis is that there’s not just one example of living deification (at whatever level), or ‘son of God’ like Jesus, but that the Bible is a narrative of different administrations in the East that each manage the tradition of living deification a little differently, that is until Palestine no longer has an association with that custom.

 

And of course, being a son of a humble handmaid grants you all the same rights to your father’s high status as anyone else, see Ishmael.

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Porphyry

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January 29, 2025 - 7:49 pm

It’s the God-King Ptolemy Philadelphus II who commissioned the Septuagint.

Keep in mind, not all books of the OT were translated to Greek at the same time or by the same people.

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Serene

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18
January 29, 2025 - 8:14 pm

Thank you Porphyry, I incorporated looking up select texts for my next search based on your observation.

 

And Holy Craaaap!

Chat, take it from here:

“Yes, for a period in the early Hellenistic era, a deified, living “god-king” Ptolemy II Philadelphus II ruled over Judaea openly (circa 283-200 BCE), before the Seleucids took control.

This means that for roughly a century, Judaea was politically under the authority of an Egyptian ruler who was publicly worshiped as a god while he was alive.”

Then Chat says that they only resisted subtly, unlike the Seleucids. And I’m like, in between laughter, “Oh Chat, please. I bet the Judaeans under the LIVING GOD Ptolemies were the least rebelling of any time  that they were ever under another government.”

And then Chat was like, “You are right to push back.” It couldn’t find an example.

And then I was like, “Ok, what is the text that scholars think was written during that period?” (so I can check it for signs of Ptolemaic Living God butt-kissing) and it gave me Ecclesiastes. And I just started reading Ecclesiastes for the first time (that I know of) this minute, but this is giving “Beautitudes as Reversal of Deuteronomic Expectations”:

“The wise have no advantage over fools in death.” (Eccl. 2:16)

The Jewish folk were ruled OPENLY by a Living God-King!

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Stephen
4548 Posts
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19
January 30, 2025 - 12:50 pm

Perhaps it’s time to abandon ChatGPT in favor of actual scholars in the field? Just asking.

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Serene

115 Posts
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20
January 30, 2025 - 6:15 pm

I’ve linked countless scholarship white papers on this great blog and have referenced Bietak, Albright, Magness, Assman, and Bohstrom just off the top of my head.

 

I say Chat just because it makes me laugh. The ability to be lighthearted is a pretty reliable test of intelligence.

 

I welcome you to come up with a substantive reply.

Oh, and the problem with Antiochus versus the Ptolemies is that he put his Living God image, himself as Zeus, in the Jerusalem Temple. Wrong move. You know they like aniconism and to use ADONAI and THEOS without the use of a specific god’s personal name. 

Hmm, those traditions are specific to the late period Atenist administration. We are all the sum of our influences. I am now enjoying researching how and if the God of the Bible gets Hellenized, and then to see if the Bible books that scholars attribute to the subsequent Hasmonean period then hates the Hellenic things.

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