“I’m enjoying this post”
I’m glad somebody is.
Samson Levey, _The Messiah: An Aramaic Interpretation: The Messianic Exegesis of the Targum_ (1974), 180pp., on XVII
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Page n20
There are sporadic references to the Messianic hope in the Hebrew Scriptures, the earliest of any significance being those of Isaiah 9:6 ff. and 11:1 ff., born of the Assyrian crisis, 721-701 B.C.E.
Subsequent crises in the history of Israel such as the Exile, and the persecutions under Antiochus and Rome, gave impetus to the Messiah idea, to the point where it became a vital part of Jewish doctrine, with a prayer for the advent of the Messiah included in the daily liturgy as one of the Eighteen Benedictions, whose origins go back to the third century, B.C.E., and which was redacted during the end of the first century, C.E.
Richard Carrier, _On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt_ (2014)
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We might have evidence of a strand of that prior tradition in the early-first-century Targum of Jonathan ben Uzziel on Isaiah 53 (a kind of paraphrastic commentary in Aramaic; Jonathan ben Uzziel was traditionally a student of Hillel, who died c. 10 CE, and a contemporary of Shammai, who died c. 30 CE), which explicitly identifies the suffering servant there as the Christ-but otherwise transforms the narrative to suppress or downplay the element of his dying.
But anyone who read this Targum, and then the original Hebrew (or Greek), could put two and two together:
‘this servant is the messiah’
plus
‘this servant dies and is buried and then exalted’
=
‘the messiah dies and is buried and then exalted’,
the very doctrine we see in the Talmud, which just happens to be the same doctrine adopted by Christians.
This Targum was multiply tampered with over the years, however (see Bruce Chilton, _The Glory of Israel: The Theology and Provenience of the Isaiah Targum_ [Sheffield: JSOT Press, 1982], e.g., p. 94), so nothing conclusive can be decided by it (even though, again, it is unlikely Jews would change the Targum to make Isaiah 53 messianic after Christianity started using Isaiah 53 to support their cause), although Jintae Kim makes a case for the reading being early in ‘Targum Isaiah 53 and the New Testament Concept of Atonement’, _Journal of Greco-Roman Christianity and Judaism_ 5 (2008), pp. 81-98.
_OHJ_, p. 75
“The gospel of Matthew is mentioning fulfillment of the messiah, law and prophet prophecies but not the apocalypse prophecies”
What are all of the “apocalypse prophecies” in the New Testament you can readily think of?
“messiah, law and prophet prophecies”
At which point, if ever, did practitioners of Judaism first believe that the passage locations mentioned below were Messianic?
Targum Jonathan on Isaiah 11:1-10
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And a king shall come forth from the sons of Jesse,
and from his children’s children the Messiah shall be anointed.
And there shall dwell upon him the spirit of prophecy from before the Lord:
the spirit of wisdom and understanding,
the spirit of counsel and might,
the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.
He shall bring him to the fear of the Lord:
and he shall not judge according to the sight of His eyes,
neither reprove after the hearing of his ears.
But with righteousness shall he judge the poor,
and reprove with faithfulness the needy of the earth;
and he shall smite the sinners of the earth with the word of his mouth,
and with the speech of His lips he shall slay Armillus the wicked.
And the righteous shall be round about him,
and the workers of faith shall draw nigh unto him.
In the days of the Messiah of Israel
peace shall be multiplied in the earth.
The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,
and the leopard shall dwell with the kid;
and the calf, and the lion, and the fatling together;
and a little sucking child shall be leading them.
And the cow and the bear shall feed together,
their young ones shall lie down together;
and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp,
and the weaned child shall put forth his hand on the sight of the pupil of the eyes of the cockatrice.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain,
for the earth shall be
full of the knowledge of the fear of the Lord,
as the waters cover the sea.
And there shall be at that time a son of the son of Jesse,
who shall stand for an ensign of the people;
kings shall obey him,
and the place of his dwelling shall be in glory.
==============================
Targum Micah 5
_The Aramaic Bible: The Targum of the Minor Prophets_ (1989), 259pp., on 122
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Page 122
1. And you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah,
you who were too small to be numbered among the thousands of the house of Judah,
from you shall come forth before me the anointed One,
to exercise dominion over Israel,
he whose name was mentioned
from of old,
from ancient times.
2. Then they shall be handed over in the time when she who is in labour gives birth,
and the rest of their brethren shall rely upon the children of Israel.
3. He shall arise and rule with might from the Lord,
by the greatness of the name of the Lord his God;
and they shall be gathered in from among their exiles,
for now his name shall be great to the ends of the earth.
4. Then it shall be peace for us. …
=====================
Targum Zechariah 3
_The Aramaic Bible: The Targum of the Minor Prophets_ (1989), 259pp., on 192-193
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Page 192
6. And the angel of the Lord charged Joshua, saying,
7. “Thus says the Lord of hosts,
‘If you walk in paths which are good before me,
and if you keep the charge of my Memra,
then you shall judge those who serve in my Sanctuary
and you shall have charge of my courts,
and at the resurrection of the dead I will raise you to life
and will give you feet to walk among these seraphim.
8. Hear now, Joshua the high priest, you
and your companions who sit before you,
for they are men who are worthy that a sign be performed for them,
for behold, I will bring my servant the anointed One,
and he shall be revealed.
9. For behold, the stone which I have set before Joshua–
upon one stone are seven facets;
behold, I will reveal its facets,’
says the Lord of hosts,
‘and I will remove the sin of that land in one day.’
The OT apocalypse prophecies don’t fit into the NT and history after the birth of Jesus.
Matthew 26:63-64
Son of God:Christ = King David.
Son of Man = a gentile king.
Paraphrase:
Jesus answers to the ultimatum of the high priest that yes, he:Jesus is the return of King David, but those OT prophecies (Ezekiel 37:25) will not be fulfilled. A gentile king will now defeat them.
Matthew 24:44-51 KJV
Son of Man = gentile king
servant and fellow-servants = Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes, Zealots
lord of the servant = Son of Man
Paraphrase: the four philosophies of Judaism will fight amongst themselves and afterwards be defeated by the gentile king.
“The OT apocalypse prophecies don’t fit into the NT and history after the birth of Jesus”
Does that “don’t fit into” include this?:
Daniel 9 (Brenton’s Septuagint)
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24 Seventy weeks have been determined upon thy people, and upon the holy city,
for sin to be ended,
and to seal up transgressions,
and to blot out the iniquities,
and to make atonement for iniquities,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal the vision and the prophet,
and to anoint the Most Holy.
25 And thou shalt know and understand, that
from the going forth of the command for the answer
and for the building of Jerusalem until Christ the prince
there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks;
and then the time shall return,
and the street shall be built, and the wall,
and the times shall be exhausted.
26 And after the sixty-two weeks,
the anointed one shall be destroyed,
and there is no judgment in him:
and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary
with the prince that is coming:
they shall be cut off with a flood,
and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed
he shall appoint the city to desolations.
27 And one week shall establish the covenant with many:
and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away:
and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations;
and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation.
“Son of Man = a gentile king”
Including here?:
Daniel 7:13 (Brenton’s Septuagint)
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13 I beheld in the night vision,
and, lo, one coming with the clouds of heaven as the Son of man,
and he came on to the Ancient of days,
and was brought near to him.
14 And to him was given the dominion, and the honour, and the kingdom;
and all nations, tribes, and languages, shall serve him:
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom shall not be destroyed.
Daniel was not considered to be one of the books of the prophets in the Hebrew Bible, but in the KJV it is.
Preterism: the Church itself as the body of Christ is the fulfillment of Daniel. 1 Corinthians 12:27.
The Church had gentile roots; The Roman Empire that became the Holy Roman Catholic Latin speaking Western Church and the Eastern Greek speaking Orthodox Church. The East and the West.
“Daniel was not considered to be one of the books of the prophets in the Hebrew Bible”
Was Daniel considered one of the books in the Hebrew Bible?
Samson Levey, _The Messiah: An Aramaic Interpretation: The Messianic Exegesis of the Targum_ (1974), 180pp., on 31, 102, 141
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Page 31
Targum Onkelos is most sparing in its Messianic exegesis, and has Messianic references only to
Gen. 49:10-12 and
Num. 24:17-20, 23-24.
Page 102
Targum Jonathan presents Messianic interpretations in the following passages:
I Samuel 2:7-10, 35;
II Samuel 22:28-32; 23:1-5;
I Kings 5:13;
Isaiah 4:1-6; 9:5-6; 10:24-27; 11:1-16; 14:29-30; 16:1-5; 28:5-6; 42:1-9; 43:10; 52:13-53:12;
Jeremiah 23:1-8; 30:8-11; 33:13-22, 25-26;
Ezekiel 17:22-24; 34:20-31; 37:21-28;
Hosea 2:2; 3:3-5; 14:5-8;
Micah 4:8; 5:1-4;
Habakkuk 3:17-18;
Zechariah 3:8; 4:7; 6:12-13; 10:4.
Page 141
Messianic interpretations are found in the following passages:
Psalms 18:28-32; 21:1-8; 45:1-18; 61:7-9; 72:1-20; 80:15-18; 89:51-52; 132:11-18;
Song of Songs 1:8, 17; 4:5; 7:4; 7:12-8:4;
Ruth 1:1; 3:15;
Lamentations 2:22; 4:22;
Ecclesiastes 1:11; 7:24;
Esther II 1:1;
I Chronicles 3:24.
The Hebrew Bible is three parts. Daniel is part of the Writings: other books.
Tanakh is an acronym, made from the first Hebrew letter of each of the Masoretic Text’s three traditional divisions: Torah (literally ‘Instruction’ or ‘Law’),[10] Nevi’im (Prophets), and Ketuvim (Writings)—hence TaNaKh.
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So I guess that means in Hebrew that Daniel was not a prophet. 🤷♂️
If the Wikipedia sources are not accurate, I wouldn’t know any better anyways since I grew up reading the KJV and NIV within Calvinism theology.
Catholics are only allowed to speak in Latin.
Thank you Robert for the finer details,
Daniel is mentioned by name at Matthew 24:15. As a rule I invented for myself, I want to see the name of prophet mentioned within the NT passage. This passage is clearly referring to writings of Daniel.
Poetically, there is to me, some Greek symbolism occurring in the ideas of light and darkness in Matthew 24.
I see that φως can be a poetic word for ανηρ (a mortal man, opposite of an immortal god).
φως can be a contracted word from φαος.
Flipping through pages of the Little Liddell to φαος and a note is there that seeing the sunlight is to be alive, the opposite is to be dead.
It’s 9am here in Iowa and the sun is out there. I’m alive. 🙂
Matthew 24:29-31 has a meaning of darkness, great darkness, the opposite of seeing the light.
They will be dead because there is no light. 💀
“I want to see the name of prophet mentioned within the NT”
What do you make of this mention of Jeremiah?:
Matthew 27:9 (NIV)
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Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled:
“They took the thirty pieces of silver,
the price set on him by the people of Israel,
“Zecheriah 11. I don’t know right now, remember of it from the book of Jeremiah”
It’s not from Jeremiah.
The Matthew text was corrupted.
Matthew 27:9 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
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Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the Prophet who said,
“I took thirty silver coins,
the price of The Precious One
on which they of the children of Israel had agreed.
“If the Wikipedia sources are not accurate”
On Wikipedia anybody can say anything, and cite any source.
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jogon March 6, 2018 at 8:17 am
Ah I see!
What is the date of the Targum?
BDEhrman March 8, 2018 at 3:59 pm
Ah, just look it up. Even Wikipedia will do! (No where near to any time prior to the NT!)
===============
The text of Romans has corruption.
If you were to correct this corrupted text, how would you correct it?:
Romans 5:7 (NIV)
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Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person,
though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die.
1)Wikipedia requires a source to be listed. Sections that don’t have a source are noted as such. Depends what sources you trust.
2)I don’t see any corruption or misleading translation in Romans 5:7.
You could replace the preposition υπερ (hyper) of Genitive case as:”in defense of” to make it more precise and clearer.
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REASON: The archaic theological-political concept of DIVINE RIGHT OF KINGS could imply that war is the result of the gods removing that King from power because of wickedness. If the King is righteous and good there is no reason for war or to die in defense of the King. John 15:13. We don’t have a DIVINE RIGHT OF KINGS government here in the USA; such things are forbidden for the CONSTITUTION.
We’re getting offtrack now, on a spiraling tangent away from focusing on prophecies in Matthew. 😵💫
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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